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Username Post: Fire ND!
The Psycho of Sojka
Freshman
Posts 37
02-01-20 07:53 PM - Post#298261    

Being in attendance for the first time this year and witnessing ND laughing at mistakes that no coach at any level would find funny pretty much crossed the line for me. I’ve wanted to start a thread of this topic countless times this year, but decided I would hold off. After today’s loss at home and watching at how awful he is coaching whether it’s defensive stops to scouting issues (as in other teams) or even drawing up plays out of timeouts. I would say the time has come and it’s time to send him and the staff packing.
DrBison
Sophomore
Posts 186
02-01-20 08:06 PM - Post#298265    

Food for thought: 63% winning percentage at Bucknell, 73% career winning percentage, 2 time PL Coach of the Year.
bisonmania
Masters Student
Posts 835
02-01-20 08:12 PM - Post#298270    

Yes very true with Paulsens recruits. IMO there were several years you didn’t really need a coach in a bunch of those games with that kind of talent. The current team needs a great coach.
The Psycho of Sojka
Freshman
Posts 37
02-01-20 08:13 PM - Post#298271    

Of these winning percentages you speak of how much of that is actually Dave Paulsen’s credit? Food for thought have you looked at ND’s senior class this year or his first class of recruits?
Bison54
PhD Student
Posts 1536
Bison54
02-01-20 08:18 PM - Post#298276    

A couple of weeks ago, in the post game with Doug, Coach Harrison was explaining how pleased they were with the defense switching. Coach Davis said pretty much the same thing today, as a positive. I guess he was looking for some lemonade. But really?? Just sayin'

Isn't this the first team that is 100% recruited by ND and staff?

Maybe there are more issues beyond strategy selection and in game adjustments

MrPhillie
Postdoc
Posts 2344
MrPhillie
02-01-20 08:26 PM - Post#298280    

Certainly a disparity in overall talent DP was able to recruit versus what ND has. I know coaches have different styles but to me, Davis’ players follow his unemotional, often passionless approach. When you are at a talent disadvantage you need to use other tools such as focus, creativity, fundamentals, and getting fired up...Bucknell seems to lack all of those. In huddles, I’m not sure what Davis is drawing up. Also during huddles, how many players are paying attention? Seems the video board captures many players’ attention rather than the huddle.
HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts 1602
02-01-20 08:48 PM - Post#298296    

Ellis and King were high profile recruits. Sotos was as well. Toomer had MANY offers. Each class under Davis has had a top level PL talent recruit. The rest of each class has had puzzle pieces that are typical for PL team, IMHO.

Regression by these players is the result of poor leadership and even worse coaching. Nate Sestina got out of dodge!
res
Masters Student
Posts 786
02-01-20 08:54 PM - Post#298299    

Nate Sestina had no choice. You guys crack me up.

Bison137
Professor
Posts 14873
Bison137
02-01-20 08:55 PM - Post#298300    

  • Bison54 Said:
A couple of weeks ago, in the post game with Doug, Coach Harrison was explaining how pleased they were with the defense switching. Coach Davis said pretty much the same thing today, as a positive. I guess he was looking for some lemonade. But really?? Just sayin'





You’ve touched on an issue that definitely scares me. The coaching staff seems proud of a defensive strategy that has made Bucknell one of the worst teams at defending the two point shot in the entire country. It is the worst Bison defense in HISTORY in this area. And yet they seem proud of it. They don’t seem to understand that automatically switching, so that a bison guard is constantly trying to guard a 6-8 or 6-9 post player near the baskets makes no sense at all. Just as bad is that a Bison big man must defend a quick guard on the perimeter, and the wings are forced to cheat away from their man to help out on the mismatch in the post. And the other teams are smart enough to exploit this bizarre strategy.

Good teams switch as a last resort if it is going to create a mismatch. But Bucknell automatically switches, so that the opponent can create the most favorable matchup’s for themselves. I heard from a source that I believe is reliable that many of the players do not like this defensive fstrategy. Hopefully it will be radically changed at some point.



Bison137
Professor
Posts 14873
Bison137
02-01-20 09:05 PM - Post#298308    

By the way, this was the worst home loss versus a patriot league opponent, in at least 20 years. Possibly a lot longer. I will check the years prior to 2001 tomorrow.



raybucknell12
Freshman
Posts 51
02-02-20 11:03 AM - Post#298362    

For me, the backbreaker was the American game back in January. After that final defensive possession (up 2 with seconds to go), in which there was no ball pressure and a defensive switch leading to a wide-open, game winning 3, one of our seniors and team leaders visibly ripped into the coaching staff. It seems like ND has lost this team.
bisonmania
Masters Student
Posts 835
02-02-20 11:59 AM - Post#298371    

I could not agree with you more about Davis losing the team! The video that the team does at the media timeout in the first half really shows how uninterested the team is. Davis sits and goes over a play and much of the team is focused on the video! I know this has been posted by a few on this board in the past including me. I will say this it drives me totally crazy how the team does not respect the staff and how the staff does not see this!! There are a lot of other things you can see during a game that shows a lack of coaching focus or respect.
candyfan
Masters Student
Posts 430
candyfan
02-02-20 03:25 PM - Post#298414    

While I don't disagree with the criticisms being levied against Davis and the Staff, I hesitate to indict them all to firing everybody! We have a different situation here then we've seen before.

Charlie Woolum got on top and for the most part, kept the team there with his relaxed style.

Pat Flannery brought huge energy but mundane players into the system until finally hitting GOLD with his double NCAA winners!

Paulsen inherited no talent his first year and won about 5 games? Again, high energy but great recruiting followed with big time winning.

Now Davis inherited great talent and won with them. Let's not forget that he won big at Randolph Macon. Now comes a possible slump wherein the recruits are not up to the standards we're used to? Let's give him a chance to work out of it!
Bison89
Professor
Posts 5144
Bison89
02-02-20 03:26 PM - Post#298415    

Mob with Pitchforks and Torches:

https://youtu.be/qLvGnro4Cgw
New season, new team, new dream . . .

MrPhillie
Postdoc
Posts 2344
MrPhillie
02-02-20 04:11 PM - Post#298419    

I don’t quite agree with the mob analogy, but I also think some criticism is warranted and certainly allowed in a fan forum. Even at Bucknell.

Perhaps firing Davis is extreme at this point, but he deserves some criticism. I’d be surprised if Truax is happy with the season thus far. It will take 2-3 sub-.500 years in a row along with drop off in season tickets for Davis to be fired, in my opinion. Perhaps another issue is that Davis doesn’t seem overly likable. His personality is lacking, especially compared to Flannery and Paulsen, from what I can tell.
res
Masters Student
Posts 786
02-02-20 06:53 PM - Post#298428    

  • MrPhillie Said:
I don’t quite agree with the mob analogy, but I also think some criticism is warranted and certainly allowed in a fan forum. Even at Bucknell.



Indeed, it is, Phillie. And there has been plenty of criticism expressed here, a lot of it, I would say, deservedly so. But, this thread is entitled, "Fire ND!". I think you would agree that's a step up from "some criticism". To say nothing of the fact that it ain't gonna happen for quite some time, if ever. So I suggest people freely bring their gripes and otherwise express their frustrations. I get that people want to win, but there's a reason we're in the Patriot League, folks. Not at all costs.

Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
02-02-20 09:44 PM - Post#298431    

Game tomorrow night. You gotta play through it and that’s up to the kids. As with everything in life, experience and maturity are the greatest teaches. If I’ve learned anything in life it is that failure is always someone else’s fault. Wasn’t it JFK who said that “victory has a thousand fathers and defeat is an orphan” I’m sure ND feels like an only child right now. I will also be the first to admit, as I have said repeatedly, that I am personally disheartened that we are not competitive within a PL context. The fall off has been precipitous. Time to 🥜 up and move on. In the likely event it doesn’t improve there’s always bourbon 🥃!!!!
bison63
Postdoc
Posts 3600
02-03-20 02:18 PM - Post#298479    

  • res Said:
  • MrPhillie Said:
I don’t quite agree with the mob analogy, but I also think some criticism is warranted and certainly allowed in a fan forum. Even at Bucknell.



Indeed, it is, Phillie. And there has been plenty of criticism expressed here, a lot of it, I would say, deservedly so. But, this thread is entitled, "Fire ND!". I think you would agree that's a step up from "some criticism". To say nothing of the fact that it ain't gonna happen for quite some time, if ever. So I suggest people freely bring their gripes and otherwise express their frustrations. I get that people want to win, but there's a reason we're in the Patriot League, folks. Not at all costs.



Agree absolutely. “Fire ND,” that’s crazy, and the kind of thing you’d expect to find on the HC board. As long as I can remember, and that is about as long as anyone on the board, Bucknell has never fired a men’s hoops coach. This board played a role in getting a women’s hoops coach fired, but that was for a lot more than just losing. Nuff said about that.

Four winning seasons for ND, four straight PL titles and we are going to fire him for one losing season? And to boot, this is with two of the most highly rated recruits in Bucknell history poised to attend. I would have to say, that the highest rated recruit ( at the time of commitment)of the Paulsen era was Cam Ayers. Now Muscala turned out to be the all time great, but he was not even the highest rated recruit in his class. That would have been Joe Willman, who turned out to be pretty darn good in his own right.

My point is, at our level recruits are largely a crap shoot. If college recruiters knew how good Muscala would become, he’d probably been a Gopher instead of a Bison. Nana was a raw talent but new to the game, and somewhat of an unknown. Those are the kind of breaks you need to get in the PL, but they don’t happen every year.

ND has a record, and before this year it did not include losing. I’m all for being able to express ones opinion on this board. God knows I’ve expressed enough of them over the past 15 years. And my opinion on this issue is that “Fire ND” is not a reasonable discussion at this time.

Btw, fwiw in response to Candyfan, no disrespect but I thought that the 2008 team that Coach DP went 8-23 with had a lot better talent than that record indicated. Enoch Andoh came in as one of Bucknell’s highest rated recruits ever and DP turned him into a benchwarmer. Classic case of forcing the coach’s system on the players as opposed to playing the system that suited the talent on hand imo.
The Psycho of Sojka
Freshman
Posts 37
02-03-20 08:50 PM - Post#298504    

After watching this anybody that disagrees is watching something entirely different.
raybucknell12
Freshman
Posts 51
02-03-20 09:02 PM - Post#298506    

Another game, another display of the same coaching mistakes. We had no offensive flow...because we don’t even have an offense we’re running. Our best chance to score is in transition. Our half-court offense doesn’t even exist. Don’t even get me started on defense.

At what point do you accept that what you’re doing isn’t working? Is this our new normal?
Bison137
Professor
Posts 14873
Bison137
02-03-20 09:08 PM - Post#298508    

I am afraid it is the new normal. Get used to it.



raybucknell12
Freshman
Posts 51
02-03-20 09:10 PM - Post#298509    

That’s what I’m afraid of.
raybucknell12
Freshman
Posts 51
02-03-20 10:09 PM - Post#298513    

Can someone explain that end of game sequence? We moved the ball up, what, two feet, sacrificing out last timeout. A timeout we could have used when Jimmy was struggling to get the ball inbounds. What a frustrating way to lose.
nh2032
Freshman
Posts 94
02-03-20 10:31 PM - Post#298515    

You mean the same sequence that started with us 94 ft from the basket with 3.6s and ended with one of our best 3 pointer shooters having a chance to tie the game? Just because the kid fumbled a catch he makes 9 times out of 10 doesn't negate the fact the coaching staff put him in a position to be successful.

As strange as the TO may have seemed you take that trade every time.

Coaches coach, players play. Both need to be better than they were tonight. But the last sequence ended up as good as you reasonably could ask for given the situation.
MrPhillie
Postdoc
Posts 2344
MrPhillie
02-03-20 10:41 PM - Post#298516    

Seemed to settle for a lot of 3’s down the stretch. Although Meeks had a few great chances in close but couldn’t hit. Bison got hot for a stretch but played more lousy basketball than they played well. Lafayette was trying to help us but shooting 1-15 to end the game will result in a loss every time.
HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts 1602
02-03-20 10:42 PM - Post#298517    

It’s really bad. Worst I’ve ever seen even in the one right win DP season. This team has far more talent than one and they look totally discombobulated. What do they even do in practice? The same crap that doesn’t work in the game?
The Psycho of Sojka
Freshman
Posts 37
02-03-20 10:45 PM - Post#298518    

I agree. That last timeout on the floor made no sense. I understand that two feet may make a difference in some circumstances but, where the ball was located I don’t believe it made a difference. If you are directly under the hoop I would 100% agree with that call. I will still stick to the reason why this thread was created. “ND is a bad coach and needs to go”.
Bucknellbisonfan21
Masters Student
Posts 460
Bucknellbisonfan21
02-03-20 11:09 PM - Post#298519    

I thought the play call was decent if it was designed to get Meeks that 3. Normally when bucknell has chances to draw up out of bounds plays and end of half plays they seem to get a terrible look so that was nice to see. Just curious why Moore was on the floor for that last play if he wasn’t going to be the inbounder. Maybe to set a screen? I would’ve just rather seen another shooter out there.
nh2032
Freshman
Posts 94
02-04-20 07:37 AM - Post#298523    

Setting the key screen is exactly what Bruce did with Avi and Funk drawing attention away from the wing. Especially in the circumstance where any more straightforward play design just ends up with Lafayette giving their last foul. From a position that's sub 3% win probability Meeks ended up in a spot that is significantly more favorable than that. Take issue with any number of things from the first 39m 54s of the game, but I don't get nitpicking the last sequence.
The Psycho of Sojka
Freshman
Posts 37
02-04-20 03:04 PM - Post#298540    

I wanted to bring this up as well in-regards to being in attendance last night. I'm going to take a stab on the time left in the game because I don't remember the exact time. Around the 3 min mark Newman checked in for Bruce when he picked up his 4th foul and when Bucknell had possession of the ball Newman had a wide open dunk while standing in the paint with the ball at the top of the arc. They did not look at him once and it led to I think a turnover. As soon as the turnover hit his head dropped and he was pulled. Now with that said fast forward to the end of the game. Win or lose Bucknell usually goes to center court for a team effort talk I guess you could call it. Newman was no where close to that and when the team put their hands in to break he was already headed to the locker room. I don't know if you could see this on TV but, in attendance you could see it.
Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
02-04-20 06:46 PM - Post#298561    

I was resisting to even putting my pseudonym to this topic and would ask that the administrator remove the thread from the Board. That does not mean I'm happy with the state of affairs nor agree with all of the decisions being made or even the execution of same. However, if I understand how Bucknell's coaching contracts work in the norm then assuming ND;s contract was renewed on a revolving 5 year basis last year he would still have 4 years left contractually at seasons end. Assuming he is paid circa 200K annually before "other" income, the University would likely be eating 800K in consequence. Anybody proposing this as a realistic course of action needs to take a VERY LARGE chill pill.
The Psycho of Sojka
Freshman
Posts 37
02-04-20 07:35 PM - Post#298565    

Someone can’t take the truth because the truth hurts! Do some research on ND in the past and look at records because clearly it’s the same trend. Look at his teams with all his recruits vs his team with the last coach’s recruits and compare numbers.
Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
02-04-20 07:40 PM - Post#298567    

Your pseudonym is spot on. I just explained the business decision, Grow up
The Psycho of Sojka
Freshman
Posts 37
02-04-20 07:47 PM - Post#298568    

First, I don’t take personal shots at people on the board. I think your “grow up” comment is childish.
Lastly, I guess I could say it was a terrible business decision in the end.
HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts 1602
02-04-20 10:25 PM - Post#298570    

My favorite line is asking the administrator to remove the thread! Seriously?
Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
02-04-20 10:48 PM - Post#298571    

If the guy that runs the Board has any class at all that’s what he should do. Nite Nite
Bison89
Professor
Posts 5144
Bison89
02-04-20 11:26 PM - Post#298576    

Sorry, Old Bison, but I could not disagree more. IMO, this is the type of topic that fans should discuss.
New season, new team, new dream . . .

HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts 1602
02-05-20 11:40 AM - Post#298596    

No kidding. Old Bison now has purity of content tests for fan boards. Hilarious!

scorekeeper
Freshman
Posts 49
02-05-20 11:47 AM - Post#298597    

Bunch of grumpy old men lol!
Bison54
PhD Student
Posts 1536
Bison54
02-05-20 02:16 PM - Post#298616    

Maybe should use a "?" instead of "!"

A subject worthy of debate, but as a question rather than a demand.

I give him credit for taking responsibility .. and for allowing others to get credit for the good.

After a loss, he takes the interview. After a win, an assistant and a couple of players take the interviews. I am getting tired of his interviews; but he does take the mic and the "heat" as it were from Birdsong.

Bison89
Professor
Posts 5144
Bison89
02-05-20 02:59 PM - Post#298629    

  • Bison54 Said:
Maybe should use a "?" instead of "!"

A subject worthy of debate, but as a question rather than a demand.



Bison54, that is a good idea, but ultimately, this was The Psycho of Sojka's thread, and as such, his subject. It would seem that he clearly feels that Coach Davis should be shown the door. So, while I might agree with you, I understand Psycho's use of "!".
New season, new team, new dream . . .

Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
02-06-20 12:12 PM - Post#298695    

  • Old Bison Said:
That does not mean I'm happy with the state of affairs nor agree with all of the decisions being made or even the execution of same.



I'm not sure what about above was unclear, so let me RESTATE. I have expressed my basketball sentiment above while explaining the realities of the legal and contractual issues that would be at hand with respect to this topic (i.e., this isn't even VAGUELY in the realm of short-term possibility).

Also, I am not posting this because I feel I have to "defend" my position in any regard. I am responding because I'm mature and pragmatic. So, if the topic has a 0% chance of occurring than why post? Culture is not easy to create but it is easy to destroy. To anyone disaffected it gives license to being more disaffected.

With respect to my taking "personal shots" and being "childish", let me be clear on that also. ND has forgot more basketball than the three of you combined. Also, just to amuse me I would like to see a detailed list of your replacement candidates (hint: just to obviate your #1 response DF isn't leaving W&M).

Scorekeeper, you are in fact are the only prescient one; I am BOTH old and grumpy. However, I will be at school for Mike's jersey retirement and the alumni game on the 15th of Feb and will be in the men's weight room at Sojka Sat morning b4 the start. Come by and wrap your hand around my bicep...its impressive!(Imogee smile face). Meaning...I'm working on the OLD part...can't help you with the GRUMPY part.

If the weight room is crowded I'm the handsome guy



Bison89
Professor
Posts 5144
Bison89
02-06-20 12:26 PM - Post#298696    

  • Old Bison Said:
Scorekeeper, you are in fact are the only prescient one; I am BOTH old and grumpy. However, I will be at school for Mike's jersey retirement and the alumni game on the 15th of Feb and will be in the men's weight room at Sojka Sat morning b4 the start. Come by and wrap your hand around my bicep...its impressive!(Imogee smile face). Meaning...I'm working on the OLD part...can't help you with the GRUMPY part.



Old Bison, I plan to be there also. Should we bring you a Bison walking stick? Here is a nice one: https://www.ebay.com/i/223710679770?chn=ps &nor...
New season, new team, new dream . . .

NoMoney89
Freshman
Posts 69
02-07-20 07:03 PM - Post#298879    

  • Bison89 Said:
  • Old Bison Said:
Scorekeeper, you are in fact are the only prescient one; I am BOTH old and grumpy. However, I will be at school for Mike's jersey retirement and the alumni game on the 15th of Feb and will be in the men's weight room at Sojka Sat morning b4 the start. Come by and wrap your hand around my bicep...its impressive!(Imogee smile face). Meaning...I'm working on the OLD part...can't help you with the GRUMPY part.



Old Bison, I plan to be there also. Should we bring you a Bison walking stick? Here is a nice one: https://www.ebay.com/i/223710679770?chn=ps &nor...




And Bison '89 That stick is from Ukraine! How on point! Stealth political post? J/K See you on the 15th or the 14th at the Shanty if you're coming up early.

No Money AKA GMoney'89

HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts 1602
02-08-20 10:51 AM - Post#298962    

That's actually a pretty cool walking stick!
The Psycho of Sojka
Freshman
Posts 37
02-08-20 09:01 PM - Post#299108    

For tonight’s lovely showing, if ND wants to start winning games he should start drawing up plays other than 3pt. Shots. 8-35 behind the arc is ridiculous. When you start seeing that they aren’t falling and that your attempts are climbing you need to pull the plug. Could be a different outcome if you cut that 35 down to 20 and you take 15 shots while driving the ball to the hole. A tip from yours truly “The person that wants ND gone!”
raybucknell12
Freshman
Posts 51
02-08-20 09:05 PM - Post#299110    

I’d love if someone on this board could point me to the offense that we run. Because I just don’t see it. Seems to me we love to pass the ball around the perimeter until the shot clock gets to 10 then hoist up a contested 3. I don’t blame these kids for this awful showing (although even our open shots were not falling).

I sure hope that tonight’s game is rock bottom for us.
The Psycho of Sojka
Freshman
Posts 37
02-12-20 10:34 PM - Post#299770    

I’ll just agree with my post last game. Stop shooting 3’s when they aren’t dropping! I will add though and say I dont know what ND sees in switching every damn possession, but it seems to be working if he wants an L over a W!
The Psycho of Sojka
Freshman
Posts 37
02-19-20 09:59 PM - Post#300773    

I’m glad we won against maybe one of the worst Holy Cross teams in the last decade but, if we weren’t hot from behind the arc I don’t think we win that game. The switching is still dumb and Davis needs to learn how to coach the switch when it is necessary. Every screen/possession doesn’t require it. I will still stand behind my thread of getting rid of ND even though we beat a terrible team.
The Psycho of Sojka
Freshman
Posts 37
02-23-20 02:57 PM - Post#301537    

Over 52% of our total FG’s were 3’s and we hit 7. That’s a great way to win a game. #HotGarbage
The Psycho of Sojka
Freshman
Posts 37
03-21-20 07:09 PM - Post#304970    

I’ll just bump this to the top because I wonder if opinions have changed yet. 🤔
Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
03-24-20 07:14 AM - Post#305061    

“and I bumped and I bumped again”

- Third Eye Blind (Semi Charmed Life)
HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts 1602
03-27-20 02:48 PM - Post#305161    

And I don't know how it started (and I don't know how) But I'm ready to go, I'm ready to......

Bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump

- Usher (Bump)
The Psycho of Sojka
Freshman
Posts 37
04-03-20 11:19 AM - Post#305674    

Now the Jimmy transfer...I kind of had a suspicion this was coming because of me talking to some people at an away game. The answer I got from these people was he was not happy with coaching. I’ll just leave it at that.
Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
04-03-20 11:23 AM - Post#305677    

Maybe you’re not who I thought you were
bisonmania
Masters Student
Posts 835
04-03-20 11:24 AM - Post#305678    

Jimmy may not be the last one either!
Bison137
Professor
Posts 14873
Bison137
04-03-20 11:24 AM - Post#305679    

Yes, it was very evident he was not happy with the offense and defense being run. I had several conversations with people close to him.



Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
04-03-20 11:27 AM - Post#305682    

The kid will look back and understand that life decisions shouldn’t be based on what basketball offense or defense is being run. Wish him the best
raybucknell12
Freshman
Posts 51
04-03-20 12:09 PM - Post#305695    

  • Old Bison Said:
The kid will look back and understand that life decisions shouldn’t be based on what basketball offense or defense is being run. Wish him the best



That you, one, have any shred of understanding of why he transferred, and, two, think you know what is best for him shows how completely out of touch you are.

I'm sad that he's leaving the program--his heart and toughness made us all proud. But, I'm also empathetic as to his situation and hopes he finds a new place to call home. Much like Nate, I'll be rooting for him hard next season wherever he lands (unless its Lehigh lol).

I've made my opinions about the coaching staff on this board quite clear. Its never a good sign if your best returning player leaves before his senior year, and amplifies whatever issues he was having with the program.
Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
04-03-20 01:54 PM - Post#305712    

Ray B, I already replied to this on the other thread. That said, I didn’t say I know why he transferred. I was responding to 137 who said he Talked to people who said he didn’t like the offense or defense. He’s now voted with his feet. Good for him.

What I find interesting is your taking exception to me, and assailing me by wrongly stating that I either said, or conjectured about, WHY he transferred. I did not. On the other hand it’s clear it ok to conjecture that he left because of the coaching staff. Bit of a double standard but not important.

Let’s be clear however. If the kid is leaving his junior year BEFORE the 1x rule has officially sanctioned then OF COURSE he’s blaming it on the coaching staff. Only other real possibility is his girlfriend is transferring to OSU.

Let’s look at the facts. I agree with what someone else (Mr Phillie?) already said in that he was the best all around player on the team. Also my personal favorite as I saw so much of myself in the kid. That said, he didn’t make the PL 1st, 2nd or 3rd team all league. The answer seems to be to transfer to the B10. To what end? Another year of basketball? When Chris Haas was a freshman he sat on the bench while Ryan F, Ryan Hill and Casper played in front of him. I called that backcourt “the gang that couldn’t shoot straight”. I love Dave P but it was one of the most egregious coaching decisions I’d ever seen. I went to Charles Lee 5x and said WTF? Chris waited for his time and had an excellent career as we all know.

The reality is he was the starting PG and played 30 mpg (?) and took any shot he liked (like everyone else for that matter), So what’s the beef exactly? When we are children and in early adulthood and something isn’t 109% to our liking the first inclination is for us to look externally. It’s endemic at that stage of life. Growth involves maturity and maturity involves introspection...it’s tough to get honest but that is exactly where growth happens. The world is filled with people that need someone else to blame...it’s the coaches fault...it’s the bosses fault - if we’re not getting the result we want then someone beside us has to be at fault. Tough way to go through life.

Steven Casper couldn’t shoot a lick but he sure learned to be a competitor. BU won the PL because Mahoney is 2x the competitor than Ivanauskas.

You want to win the PL again. Find kids that look internally

bison63
Postdoc
Posts 3600
04-03-20 09:40 PM - Post#305739    

Just throwing this out, with no inside knowledge or info, but...it curious that as long as the team was winning, he was okay with the system, or at least willing to put up with it.

Don’t doubt that he had problems with coaching, but the losing season, and the fact that this will be a different world when school resumes had to factor in heavily. I seriously doubt that there will be a PL football season this year, and who knows about basketball. It is probably not a world in which a kid wants to be far from home. So yeah, maybe there are a lot of reasons. One thing is sure, life is not going back to what it was for quite some time, if ever.
HoleinOne
Masters Student
Posts 550
04-06-20 10:36 AM - Post#305891    

A question more than a comment for this thread. Looking at thoughts regarding the performance of the Assistant Coaches. My perception is that recruiting is getting better but don't see any consistency in offensive or defensive strategy. Usually there is an assistant responsible for match ups and taking away the strengths of the opposition. May all be on ND but Bison competitive strategy not showing improvement, particularly the past two years.
Bison54
PhD Student
Posts 1536
Bison54
04-06-20 06:38 PM - Post#305912    

We miss John Griffen

HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts 1602
04-07-20 03:46 PM - Post#305947    

Old Bison you have some unique perspectives. Haas was NOT Division 1 ready his freshman year. He waited his time because he was scrawny and couldn't defend worth a lick!
Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
04-09-20 12:45 PM - Post#306043    

He would have averaged 10-11 points as a freshman. provided range which we needed and was bouncy. Paulson didn't play him because he was a MTM defense first coach. What;s unique...we had no backcourt scoring and you take it in the shorts a little defensively to get what you need offensively.,,its a simple risk/reward tradeoff. Alsom he was just as "scrawney" as a senior as he was as a freshman and was the same scrawney kid I saw pump in 34 in mone half at Army and 34 against Nova AT NOVA when the were ranked in the top 10 in the country. What's more unique I'm not even gonna address
Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
04-09-20 02:14 PM - Post#306054    

For the statistical mavens

Some really BAD COACH's:

Phil Jackson - Career W-L %
CBA - Albany Patroons .565
Bulls - .738
Lakers - .676
Pres/GM Knicks - .325

Steve Kerr - Career W-L %
GS '15-'19 - .785
GS '20 - .231

Pat Flannery - BUCKNELL
Career - .566
1994-2004 & 2008 - .510
2005-2007 = .747

What I find particularly interesting was 137's commentary prior to/or during the PL tourney that Joe Jones was also a lousy coach. For reference:

Joe Jones - Carreer W-L %
Columbia - .443
BU - .531

Interesting that such a bad coach could get hired after CU with a .443 career winning %
Interesting that such a bad coach could go to the NIT in 2014 and a non-corona NCAA in 2020 while beating Colgate at Cotterell in the PL final. Also, was .531 at BU vs Flannery's .566.

Interesting further that Steve Kerr was such a great coach for 5 years and then such a bad coach this year, Also, that Phil Jackson was a "basketball genius" in Chicago and LA and then brought the "triangle offense" to NYC and went 80-166 in 3 years. Clearly he developed early onset and forgot everything he knew about basketball previously.

Phil Martelli was a career .575 coach at SJU over 24 years and took them to 6 NIT's and 7 NCAA's. His career W-L % was 9 pts higher than Flannery's and he was fired. Whose a better coach Martelli or Billy Lange and Griff (IN THE FUTURE!!!) coming off 6-26 or .188?

NATHAN JONES IS .613 at BUCK

How's that for stat's

Lastly, until Jay W is a career .722 coach at Nova and prior to beating Iowa in the first round at the Barclay's Center in 2016 they were saying he couldn't win the big one...until he did.
Tony Bennett is a career .743 career coach at UVA and after 10 years that wasn't enough. Like Jay, they were saying he couldn't win the big one...until he did.

Husky, I just cant understand for the life of me that with everything you and 137 and Psycho know about hoop that instead of coaching you're posting on an "opinion board" about hoop.

UNIQUE for sure

Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
04-09-20 02:17 PM - Post#306055    

OK...so now let me explain my post...

Players win games and players lose games
Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
04-09-20 02:45 PM - Post#306056    

Just out of curiosity...prior to this year's 14-20, ND had a career W-L record at BUCK of .660.

Did he make the decision to switch to the CYO offense this year or was he using the CYO offense the prior 4 years as well?

Fair question in my mind
DrBison
Sophomore
Posts 186
04-09-20 04:31 PM - Post#306061    

Totally agree. Amazing how a multiple time COY, league champion leading coach can become a lousy, CYO level coach who should be FIRED! One season of adversity, poor team chemistry, injuries, strategies that obviously didn’t work, and the program is shot! Sounds like typical fair weather fans to me. Go Bison!
The Psycho of Sojka
Freshman
Posts 37
04-09-20 07:02 PM - Post#306068    

Old Bison- I guess this topic really gets under your skin and that’s fine. It was my opinion to have him fired and many others believe in my topic. I agree that Davis’s stats look amazing every year since this year, but you also have to consider how many of those titles and banners that were hung up over the years should be added onto an asterisks and have DP before it. I would say a majority of those wins were from DP’s recruits and so forth. ND’s recruits are subpar in my opinion. I would say that his best recruit that he has had in this headcoaching days at Bucknell just left to go to OSU. All I’m saying there.
If you are feeling bored in quarantine I have a task for you that you can’t make an excuse on. Go look up Davis’s numbers at Randolph–Macon College when he had the ex coaches recruits vs. all of his recruits. When you do that I want you to reply to this message with your findings. I’ll bring you to the light.
HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts 1602
04-09-20 07:47 PM - Post#306073    

Sesstina to Kentucky and he excels. Sotos to Ohio States. Spears gone.

And Old Bison think everything is great and the problem is the players that ND recruits. Bizarre.

Needless to say, the last 15 years were fun and now they’re over. Time to rebuild.
Bison137
Professor
Posts 14873
Bison137
04-09-20 08:14 PM - Post#306075    

  • The Psycho of Sojka Said:
Old Bison- I guess this topic really gets under your skin and that’s fine. It was my opinion to have him fired and many others believe in my topic. I agree that Davis’s stats look amazing every year since this year, but you also have to consider how many of those titles and banners that were hung up over the years should be added onto an asterisks and have DP before it. I would say a majority of those wins were from DP’s recruits and so forth. ND’s recruits are subpar in my opinion. I would say that his best recruit that he has had in this headcoaching days at Bucknell just left to go to OSU. All I’m saying there.






Looking back, these are the players ND inherited:

SR - Chris Hass, Dom Hoffman, Ryan Frazier
JR - Ben Oberfeld, John Azzinaro, DJ MacLeay
- - - -
SO - Nana Foulland, Zach Thomas, Stephen Brown
FR - Nate Sestina, Kimbal Mackenzie, Nate Jones
PLUS one available scholarship.

That is one of the most talented rosters in PL history. The combined freshman/sophomore class is in the discussion as THE most talented two-year group of players ever in the PL - and ND was lucky enough to have this group for 3-4 years. Those two classes produced six 1st-team All-PL awards, three 2nd-teamers, and two 3rd-teamers. Would have been one more had Mackenzie not been hurt the first 2.5 months of his junior year. Also Chris Hass was a two-time 1st teamer. Also add in six awards for the All-Defensive team.

With the above talent, it would have been hard for any coach not to be very successful. ND's first team not led by players recruited by DP, Dane Fisher, and Aaron Kelly was this year's team. Ultimately he will be judged by how he does with his own players. Hopefully a lot better than this year.

One puzzle is that the defense he used this year and parts of last year is quite different than what he used his first three years. The hallmark of the recent defense, i.e. the automatic switching one-through-five, has been criticized by many, including Old Bison, who has criticized it on many occasions. He has also criticized a number of elements of the offense. Hopefully ND will learn from his mistakes and focus on a more effective defense next year.



MrPhillie
Postdoc
Posts 2344
MrPhillie
04-09-20 08:37 PM - Post#306076    

ND’s strategies and game management have been scrutinized at one time or another by most on this board. Less scrutiny when winning, more when losing. That’s what fans do in every sport. Overall, coaches are judged on who they recruit, how well the staff gets those players to play, and how many wins result. Sometimes, the talent can overcome the other issues. Old Bison says players win/lose games. I certainly think they are the most important variable, but not the only one. Sometimes players overcome poor coaching and sometimes great coaching overcomes mediocre talent. When the coaching and talent are subpar, that’s when losing occurs most frequently. ND better hope his latest recruits can play, otherwise, this past season will be his new norm.
Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
04-10-20 11:33 AM - Post#306094    

Ok so now we are focused on the issue. Amazing what one has to go through to get to the issue. Psycho, believe me when I tell you that nothing has gotten under my skin. I was BRUTAL in my commentary in OOC. I don’t believe in scripted substitution patterns in the first half...I believe matchups on the floor are one of the most important game to game variables there are. For instance, putting Xander on Saeed Nelson was criminal. Spear and Newman actually gave him nightmares...counterintuitive. That said, most coaches today are system coaches. I worked for Tom Davis who along with Pitino was one of the earliest of system coaches. GARY Williams and Bruce Pearl (who was on the same staff) are direct clones on Tom. NOTHING happens in a vacuum. The other teams have coaches and players that want to win as well. Asking about ND’s inherited Players at RM & Buck is absolutely comical. THAT’S MY POSITION AND NOW YOU ARE CONVENIENTLY USURPING IT. Yes, if you want to say
recruiting is down then I agree. Would I have offered Timmerman? No. But as I said previously, it’s a case of taking a big guy who can shoot to a bad level. You guys think everything happens in a vacuum and that magically the kids you like better than Timmerman decide to commit. It doesn’t always happen that way! I’ve said a million times that “recruiting is a funny thing” and nobody knows how kids will project. How did CJ McCollum wind up at Lehigh? If Chris Haas went to Duke he’d be a household name. Stop the nonsense...it’s not that easy. You just don win every yea, year after year! What was UNC’s record this year...? So, by that logic Roy Williams is a crappy coach as well. He was in the National Championship game 2 out of the prior four years. By your rationale, Tony Bennet should have been fired mid-season. You’re not under my skin...I write and move on. Bucknell basketball is an elective passion and not my life. You are the guys who have clearly let it get UNDER your skin. Implying that a good man like Nathan is incompetent and deserves to lose his job! I’m not the person without perspective, and my perspective is in line with Bucknell's (and every other institution like it) mission statement. Let me go back to where I started, Jimmy transferring shows only that too much family overcame a 20 year old kids maturity and life experience level. It is not a statement on Bucknell’s basketball program. And, as far as it being a surprise you only had to be at a bar in Washington DC to know this was coming a long time ago.
Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
04-10-20 11:41 AM - Post#306099    

Timmerman btw is a poster child for pick and pop...especially if you contrast him with Newman. That’s how things sometimes go wrong!
MrPhillie
Postdoc
Posts 2344
MrPhillie
04-10-20 01:39 PM - Post#306115    

There are certainly things I don’t care for about Davis’ coaching style, decisions, personality....but getting fired after one very poor season is not appropriate. Of course there are times coaches absolutely deserve to be fired, just like any other profession. In reality, schools like a Bucknell will rarely fore a coach simply because of economics/finances.

But outside of NCAA or school violations or crimes, what would have to happen for you to fire a coach, Old Bison? Would there ever be a point where you would fire a good man like Davis? If it is the players that win/lose games, should a coach ever be fired? For me, different variables of recruiting, team chemistry, team success all play into this decision.
Bison137
Professor
Posts 14873
Bison137
04-10-20 03:48 PM - Post#306119    

It’s clearly not just the players who win and lose games. That is true if one team has far superior talent. But it is definitely not true when it comes to closely matched teams. Flannery, for example, won games this with inferior talent before he had scholarships. And a number of games have been won or lost in the endgame by good coaching or by bad coaching.



Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
04-10-20 04:07 PM - Post#306120    

Mr Phillie...no problem with your last line, but the sample size isn't one season. For perspective and with respect to your question one can look at Fran O'Hanlon's career at Lafayette. He's been there for 26 years with a career W-L% of .457. In 2014 and 2019 he won 61% of his games. In the four years (2015-18) sandwiched in between, he won 29% of his games. Was he a good coach in 2014 that became a crappy coach in the years '15-'18 and became a good coach again in 2019? I can't answer that question or the question of whether he should have been fired in the period where he lost over 70% of his games but I can tell you that he didn't use the "high octane" offense in '14, the CYO offense in "15-'18 and then revert back to the "HO" offense this past year. How long do you want me to keep typing (i.e., want to evaluate the absurdity of Steve Donahue at Penn's career over last 19 years?). Clearly he wasn't a "good" coach that became a "bad" that became a "good" coach again. When Rick Pitino was an assistant at Hawaii and was offered the job as head coach at Boston U Howard Garfinkel (RIP) told him it was a "graveyard" and not to take it. Rick took it because he was an exceptional coach. Like anything in life none of these situations are exactly black and white. As a CEO, I don't "knee-jerk" and start cleaning house every time there's a rough patch in my business. First, it's not fair and second it;s not a formula for success. Nate's a big kid and he will either be successful and move up or be unsuccessful and be forced to move on. Situations like O'Hanlon's are becoming less and less common. I appreciate the maturity of your post and am only taking the sensibly contrarian position that some of the hyperbole here would be out of place even in the BC/Donahue context. In the Bucknell context it is absolutely shocking. Where's BC now...they're in exactly the same situation with Jim Christian (who's a good coach but will probably get let go).

Rule 62..."don't take yourself so #%$@ seriously"
Bison54
PhD Student
Posts 1536
Bison54
04-10-20 05:54 PM - Post#306122    

et tu?

Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
04-11-20 07:11 AM - Post#306130    

Psycho...I love you!...you’re just like my wife...you gotta have the last word...

And just to prove my wife correct that it is ME that has to have the last word...I’m not so sure you have used “et tu Brute” in exactly the right context...but alas, I get your point.

😋🥃☘️🙏...Have a nice Easter with your family and stay healthy
HoleinOne
Masters Student
Posts 550
04-11-20 08:15 AM - Post#306131    

Most coaches lose their jobs or gain renewals based on trends. In a league like the Patriot, you tend to play against the same coaches and same strategies over and over. Building a system that evolves over several years against the same offenses and defenses, along with recruiting, sometimes as important as one year of W/L's. Personal opinion - ND's trends in most key areas are down but too soon to do more than wait to see how his recent recruiting classes perform.
Bison54
PhD Student
Posts 1536
Bison54
04-28-20 02:01 PM - Post#306753    

Today's email blast from the coach mixes up the names of the new class (Lattimer and Turner) and doesn't mention the players who left.

nh2032
Freshman
Posts 94
04-29-20 01:23 PM - Post#306806    

You have to admit if Davis was able to sign NBA player Myles Turner that'd be a good get...
HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts 1602
06-17-20 11:35 PM - Post#309171    

Time for a bump. Since I’m a 90% negative lifetime Bison fan, I thought I’d push for 91% and remind everyone how badly Davis coached and lost the team last year.
Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts 576
06-19-20 09:09 PM - Post#309292    

Hey Husky, remind me where you played again?, where you coached as well? and if you don't mind can you tell me what your profession is? and what company you work for?


HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts 1602
06-22-20 10:32 AM - Post#309377    

Hey Old Bison.....WTF do you think you are tough guy? The fan police? Keep this up and I'll report you to the Administrator.

This board is loaded with former players and homers I understand that. But don't try to bully me off.



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