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| Username | Post: 2021 Recruiting |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
05-16-20 08:29 AM - Post#307405
Denham Wojcik commits to Harvard. Three-star PG from Illinois whose brother Paxson plays at Loyola-Chicago. Ranked in the top 50 PGs at Rivals and Top 200 at 247. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
05-16-20 01:51 PM - Post#307407
You never can have enough point guards! |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
05-16-20 04:02 PM - Post#307408
Between he and Evan Nelson (and Freedman when healthy), Harvard will have some of those floor general types that Tommy loves - more of the pass-first, score-second playmaker that he had with Curry, McNally and Chambers. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
05-16-20 05:30 PM - Post#307409
Building from the bottom up this time .... By the way, I’d take our graduating 7 against next year’s Ivy Champ -10 |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
05-16-20 05:46 PM - Post#307410
Whew... 10 is A LOT (assuming a neutral floor and not a tourney at Harvard)... Even if you think those seven would have been a Top 25 team (possible, but I’d think more 30s/40s), a 10-point spread would have next year’s winner close to 125 or so. I think Yale, at the very least, will stay Top 100, so I’d say 10 might be too many... Very interested to see how the rest of the recruiting goes across the league... evaluations, testing, visits - huge challenges... but could see it going both ways... some of those stock risers we might have lost with more exposure could end up staying Ivy, so it might not be all bad... |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
05-16-20 08:36 PM - Post#307411
Hope the competition is robust next year. I now do have the benefit of knowing the 7 would be playing at Lavietes next March! |
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mobrien Masters Student Posts 402 |
05-26-20 12:15 AM - Post#307899
How good a prospect do you think Wojcik is compared to Freedman and Nelson? Seems like you think there's a decent chance that, if there's a season this year, Nelson could win the starting PG job from the start? |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
05-26-20 02:54 PM - Post#307909
Freedman and Nelson are different players for sure. Freedman is a lot more pass first with a strong three-point shot. Nelson is certainly still a point guard, but a much more score-first type that's willing to get to the rim. Nelson's game feels a lot like Christian Juzang's, though there is definitely belief that he has the mentality of Siyani, which is something that this program has lacked since transitioning from Lin to Curry to Siyani. If you think about the motion offense, you need the constant pressure to break the defense down and get good looks, so Nelson's game is a much better fit than Freedman's, which would seem better served for a "play-based" offense. Wojcik seems a bit in between, though I don't know that much at this point. I've seen him mix it up inside a little more like Nelson would and throw some pinpoint passes like Freedman would. To some extent, the key for all three will be how they can defend the position. Losing an amazing perimeter defender and a couple of strong rim protectors will likely put more emphasis on filling defensive gaps than optimizing the offense. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
06-07-20 07:36 PM - Post#308621
Harvard lands Bennett Pitcher. Just insane how ruthless this recruiting machine is. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
06-07-20 09:10 PM - Post#308624
Penn Board really liked him. Seemed like he could go outside league. In article, Pitcher gives Amaker and coaches credit for his recruiting: "He hadn't played AAU since after his freshman year and didn't receive his first basketball offer until Harvard offered him in February. The Harvard coaching staff's initial belief in him and relationship built over time were big reasons for Pitcher's commitment. “I love Coach (Tommy) Amaker, (Brian) Eskildsen, (Mike) Sotsky, (Donny) Guerinoni and every other member of the staff,†he said. “They are the people I feel most comfortable with and who I feel can lead to being a better play, but most importantly a better man." |
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mobrien Masters Student Posts 402 |
06-07-20 11:42 PM - Post#308626
How high are you on Pitcher? Hard to get a read on him as a basketball prospect from the recruiting sites since they just have him for football. Although from the way 247 describes him, he sounds kind of Brodeur-like: strong post who can pass and shoot. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
06-08-20 12:12 AM - Post#308627
Notice that he went to the team that offered him first. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
06-08-20 09:57 AM - Post#308643
Suggests that the relationship has existed for a while, not just the first offer. The Penn Board has been focusing on recruiting lately. Seems to me that Amaker gets involved early and with prospects that might have a unique story. For instance: - Tommy started following Siyani in the 8th grade; - Chris Lewis fractured his back during his junior year in high school and was considering MIT; - Jeremy Lin was essentially minimized in recruiting despite awesome CA HS stats. Wonder what drew Harvard to spend the time on Pitcher early. Was it after the football injury? Did Amaker see a switch in sports coming before others? Assume he must have. Pitcher still has no BB recruiting website exposure. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32835 |
06-08-20 10:07 AM - Post#308648
Because Tommy has AAU people and pro scouts that report to him. |
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Stuart Suss PhD Student Posts 1439 |
06-08-20 10:30 AM - Post#308650
Didn't Jeremy Lin commit to Harvard under Frank Sullivan, prior to Amaker's arrival? |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
06-08-20 10:43 AM - Post#308652
Thanks Stu, I stand corrected. Pitcher didn’t play AAU since his freshman year. |
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hoopsfan Masters Student Posts 646 |
06-08-20 10:45 AM - Post#308654
Yes Lin was recruited by and played his freshman year for Sullivan. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
06-08-20 12:39 PM - Post#308664
He's a massive get for Harvard. Ajogbor and Forbes are going to play around the rim, and Djuricic (or an Ivy four) can offset that with outside shooting next year. But after Djuricic graduates and Harvard will have lost two rim protectors that can shoot it in two years (Baker this year), it really needed to bring in a big that could shoot. He's going to make Harvard very hard to guard. It'll be interesting to see what the recruiting services do with him now that they have to flip him to hoops. I'd see him in that 101-200 range. I don't think he'll end up being the best recruit in the Ivy 2021 class, but he'll be darn close. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
06-13-20 03:53 PM - Post#308955
And as per why I didn’t think Bennett Pitcher would be the top Ivy recruit... Louis Lesmond, a Top 75 shooting guard at 247/Scout, has committed to Harvard over a lot of schools including Big Ten and Big East programs. Another massive get for Harvard... big, athletic shooting guard that can shoot it REALLY well. |
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mobrien Masters Student Posts 402 |
06-13-20 11:52 PM - Post#308960
Wow, huge get. Is he the highest-rated recruit we've ever had going by 247's rankings? Seems like we could maybe use another wing? We got Ledlum in 2019, Hemmings in 2020, and Lesmond in 2021, but could maybe use a little more depth there. Will be interesting if we're able to land Gabe Dorsey too. 247 only has his composite rating at 186, but the list of schools that have offered him (Gtown, Providence, Vandy, Tennessee, Xavier) implies he's better than that. Supposed to be another good three-point shooter. In any case, it'd be impressive to get three commits this good, period, but to get them this early in the year is really impressive—not to mention how difficult it must be to recruit right now. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
06-14-20 08:22 AM - Post#308963
Justice was also Top 75 at 247/Scout at the time but finished the year around 125. So for now Lesmond is the highest-rated recruit at any site other than maybe Chris Lewis at ESPN (he was in the 60s there). As for wings, I’d throw in Tretout as well, and Sakota is a good enough shooter to play off the ball. I don’t know what Harvard will do from here, but I don’t think it really has to add anything in this class. Unless you believe that the injury luck is going to continue, having this year’s sheer amount of talent would have been a real problem to manage if everyone could have played. So, I think the recent grad class of seven won’t be something Harvard duplicates (unless it has a terrible run of recruiting like it did over a couple classes). |
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Noah Friedman Freshman Posts 34 |
06-14-20 09:33 AM - Post#308967
In my opinion this years team could be very talented and very good but 2021 is the year where I think we have the potential to be ranked highly. We would have this top recruit, Ledlum would be a junior, kirkwood a senior, and all the freshman would be sophomores. Also if we got Gabe Dorsey we would be so stacked. Thoughts? |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
06-14-20 10:42 AM - Post#308969
The expected rotation of Haskett, Kirkwood, Ledlum, Djuricic, Forbes, Sakota, Tretout and Catchings would be a solid Ivy group, but the success of the 20-21 team will come down to the freshmen. Harvard's two biggest question marks are point guard and rim protection. At PG, Haskett/Sakota/Tretout could *cover* it, but you really need a true PG to step up. Could be Freedman coming off of injury, but Nelson seems to be the potential four-year guy in the ilk of Brandyn and Siyani. If he can even duplicate Brandyn's freshman year - much less Siyani's - Harvard will be in great shape. As for bigs, Harvard doesn't need as much offense as Chris Lewis provided, but losing two Top 100 block rate guys is tough. Forbes actually posted a BETTER block rate, but didn't quite have enough minutes to qualify to be ranked. Ajogbor seems like the guy who could step in immediately and help Forbes replace what the team lost defensively with Lewis and Baker gone, but do they both have enough offense to make the usage rates work. Baker and Lewis were very different offensively, which made it possible to play them together, but Forbes and Ajogbor seem very alike, which could make it almost impossible to play them at the same time. Moving forward, I still don't really see wings as the issue, but we'll see what direction Harvard decides to go. |
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Noah Friedman Freshman Posts 34 |
06-14-20 12:29 PM - Post#308978
How about the potential of the 21-22 team. That team I see more potential |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
06-15-20 09:07 AM - Post#309013
Still lots of question marks to project out that far. Definite reasons to believe that team can be great, but it requires projecting a lot onto the 2019 freshmen and the incoming 2020 and 2021 classes. The positive is that the numbers are in Harvard’s favor. While we don’t know *which* players will be great and which may not live up to the recruiting buzz, we do know that with X rolls of dice on 3-4 star players, you are likely to get Y contributors/stars. The question is going to be whether those players come through in key areas of need (PG and bigs). Then, there’s obviously injuries too, which should give any Harvard fan chills right now. I do think that there are fewer question marks surrounding the 2021 class than the 2020 class, so I think you’ll get a good sense next season as to whether 2021-22 will be another relative peak. |
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pennhoops Postdoc Posts 2470 |
06-15-20 11:16 AM - Post#309021
lesmond is going to be a monster. would have been a star at a high major. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3585 |
06-15-20 01:30 PM - Post#309041
Here is a local article from Chicago area by Joe Henricksen, who is widely considered the expert in Illinois hoops. Also some good quotes from Lesmond on why he chose Harvard: https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/6/13/21290226/lo ... |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32835 |
06-15-20 02:52 PM - Post#309044
"when Harvard shows interest, you can’t ignore it. The Harvard name carries a lot of weight. I also looked at the big picture after basketball, the best opportunities for me after basketball. I get the best of both worlds at Harvard.†|
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pennhoops Postdoc Posts 2470 |
06-16-20 09:51 AM - Post#309060
not to turn the harvard board penn-centric but its pretty obvious that hyp have left us far behind in recruiting and the gap is only widening |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32835 |
06-16-20 10:59 AM - Post#309065
Don't know so much about Princeton but H-Y? Surely. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
06-17-20 12:43 PM - Post#309133
I’m not so sure the gap is widening. Penn got the most win shares in the league from freshmen last year. More than twice what Harvard got, despite Ledlum playing a lot. Penn got the most win shares from freshman the prior year as well. Harvard has 3 very good recruits coming in this year, Penn has 2. I’m not seeing a huge difference. Lesmond is a huge get for the league, but they aren’t bringing in guys like that every year, and, as mike James pointed out, Chris Lewis was similarly ranked. Harvard is getting just about everyone against us head to head, but we have been doing enough to stay with them over the last 4 years. I’m not ready to concede this year until we see who we get. I predict that we will get a big man who is a higher level basketball recruit than Pitcher. I doubt we’ll get anyone approaching Lesmond, but we don’t have to in order to compete with them on the court. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32835 |
06-17-20 12:55 PM - Post#309135
We're not saying they are recruiting necessarily better players but that they are out-recruiting us for players we both deem desirable. That's likely but not necessarily bad for us in terms of titles. We had a very good class last year and we really don't know how good Harvard's class was given how many veterans they had. But let's face it--just about anyone they want who comes to our league they get. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
06-17-20 01:40 PM - Post#309142
Yes, I agree with all that. Just disagree with the idea that HYP have left us behind and that the gap is widening. Harvard has been getting whoever they want for years — long before Donahue started. This started while Miller was Penn’s coach. We haven’t gotten a player that Harvard admits they wanted since Rosen. The Yale comparison is more complicated, and Slatjchert and Laczkowski indicate it may be turning back (probably too soon to tell there). And while we have been killing them in freshman win shares, I don’t think the stat is as meaningful for Yale because Jones basically never starts freshmen. Mahoney may have been the best freshman in the league this year, but that won’t be clear until this coming season, because he didn’t get the opportunities that Dingle, Ledlum, and Martz did. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
06-17-20 01:56 PM - Post#309143
I'd caution against using Win Shares in a predictive sense. They are extremely useful in a descriptive sense (what happened), but since they are a counting stat, not a rate stat, they tend to be heavily biased by playing time. Also, they are specific to the team around the player - that is, if you can play as a 15% usage guy because the team, that season, has a couple high usage guys, you might not be able to do so if it doesn't have such players the following year. For the 2019 entering class, Harvard played freshmen for a total of 59% of team minutes. Penn played freshmen for 165% of team minutes or nearly 3X. The Quakers earned 4.6 WS as a frosh class. Harvard's frosh accumulated 2.3 WS or roughly half in about 35% of the playing time. While Penn's 2018 entering class did out-earn Harvard's 3.5 to 3.0 (in slightly less overall playing time to boot), it was a team that had its best freshman at T-10 in Win Shares that actually earned the most as a sophomore class (Princeton). And Brown, Harvard and Princeton were the three teams that had multiple sophomores with 1.5 win shares or more this season (if Wang had been healthy, he'd have been there, but that would still have given Penn just one). Better predictive metrics of future success are offensive rating combined with usage as well as focusing on stickier stats (rebound rates, assist rates, block rates) and fading stats that can have short-run fluctuations or tend to improve over time (shooting stats, turnover rates). P38 is right that Harvard (and I'll add Yale) are winning every meaningful recruiting battle over Penn right now. Over the past four years, Penn is almost as many Ivy wins away from Harvard (-9) as it is ahead of Brown (+10), and without the 2018 title run in a relatively weak edition of this league, those numbers would be -9 and +2. It may very well be fair to say that the gap hasn't widened enough to become a crisis yet, but to deny that the gap is *widening* seems to be willful ignorance. |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3618 
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06-17-20 02:19 PM - Post#309147
Harvard is obviously killing it in 2021 recruiting by landing high quality kids early, and hats off to them. They continue to bring the highest ranked kids into the league, and I don't see Penn landing anyone at the recruiting rankings of Lesmond, but we are still actively recruiting a lot of high quality players (even ranked ones). I'm going to reserve judgement on 2021 until we see where Penn lands. If it is March/April next year and we've missed on all our top targets, then we can go into crisis mode, but for now it is wait and see mode. I'm hopeful the staff can close on some of the top kids we are involved with, so let's find out how it plays out. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
06-17-20 04:11 PM - Post#309161
Harvard has to be very happy with Amaker's recruiting and performance. Note that the big fish have still been just misses - Wendell Carter, Mohammed Bamba, Dinwiddie, Falzon, etc. Had key players been healthy, this would be a completely different conversation - and decade. Regardless, Penn is getting good players. Basketball is an interesting sport in that regard. You don't need the depth that football and baseball squads do. A couple of studs and a few role players and you have a competitive squad. Throw in injuries, and you have the Ivy league. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
06-17-20 05:07 PM - Post#309169
Most of that is fair. Totally agree that freshman win shares only tells us so much. Obviously evaluation of performance of a recruiting class doesn’t stop after freshman year— we will get lots more information. My point with my win shares, total wins, and NCAA appearances arguments isn’t to say that Penn has actually been better than Harvard over the last four years. My point is just that Penn is performing well enough to stay in the conversation. And that is while losing out to Harvard for recruits seemingly whenever we go head to head. In terms of what may be less fair in your arguments, Penn’s best year is part of the record of the last four years. I think the fairest evaluation of the teams takes all the games into account — more information is always good. I don’t think we should be cutting the data set and suggesting that some results are more indicative than others. In regard to the sophs, I think you may be underestimating Bryce Washington, who was a high ORAT player as a freshman and also likely earned a medical redshirt last year (and was likely playing hurt before shutting it down). Is the sky about to fall on Penn? Maybe. But to me the sky doesn’t really look much different from the way it looked coming into the season 4 years ago. So I’m not ready to run around yelling that the sky is falling. The last four years have shown that we can compete with Harvard, even while losing every recruiting battle to them. I wouldn’t have thought that possible 4 years ago, so Steve has at least convinced me of that much. Imagine what happens if we start winning some of the recruiting battles. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
06-18-20 09:56 AM - Post#309187
Steve has certainly stabilized the program, keeping Penn in the 125-175 range over the past four years. Even being a pessimist about the Quakers this year, I'm thinking 200-225ish, which would still be much better as a "bad" year than the median years for Miller and Allen. I want to be clear that I think Steve can keep Penn in that range, maybe not every year, but generally. That being said, every season but 2017-18, the Ivy champion has been in the Top 100 and usually well into the Top 100 and even Top 50. Certainly 125-175 has been good enough to be in the conversation, but that's a conversation that relied upon Harvard and Yale being hurt by injuries and early Draft entry. Maybe it's a controversial statement, but if Harvard and Yale had seen a full complement of players on the floor, whether or not Penn would have been in the conversation would be more in question. And that's important, because Harvard and Yale are continuing to recruit at a level that put them in a position to have the great years that never quite materialized due to those losses. If both can get a clean run with their current talent, I suspect it'll take more of a 75-125 range to stay in the conversation, and I don't see Penn's recruiting being good enough to get there. I didn't intend to cherry pick by excluding 2018, which is why I included the numbers with 2018 that showed Penn being about as far from Brown as it was from Harvard. I did want to provide that context, though, because 2018 was an anomalous year being the only one in the past 10 where the league was not Top 20. 2017, 2019 and 2020 were far more representative of what the league has been this past decade and what it should continue to be, and in those years, Penn has struggled mightily. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32835 |
06-18-20 10:21 AM - Post#309190
Without starting our argument up anew, if Yale can essentially do what Harvard is doing when spending a whole lot less on the program, it's not so much a "unicorn" as whether there is a level playing field. BTW, I think Penn will be a whole lot better this year than you predict. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
06-18-20 10:34 AM - Post#309195
Looking forward to seeing Brown and maybe evern Dartmouth at Lavietes in March. Good for the league. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
06-18-20 10:54 AM - Post#309200
To be clear, Harvard is winning every recruiting battle with Yale as well. And Yale came in to the 2010s with actual success under Jones (consistent Top 4 finishes, about half the 2000s in the Top 200, a shared title). Harvard's best year in the 2000s under Sullivan was 218th. Yale won 103 Ivy games from 2010-2020. Harvard won 117. That's a substantial, immediate flip. But again, you miss what I mean by "unicorn," because you don't know what you are talking about. What I mean by "unicorn" is that Amaker has made huge efforts to become part of the Harvard community in a way that is not required of a basketball coach. Most people believed that Amaker would turn Harvard around and immediately head back to a high major. I remember telling people over and over again - no, you don't get it... he loves Harvard. Not being its basketball coach, but being part of the Harvard community. People scoffed. Basketball coaches don't love schools. They're free agents open to the highest bidder. People were wrong. The "unicorn" piece is that it's hard to imagine ever finding someone who is as strong a program builder and recruiter as Amaker, who also, arguably, loves being part of the Harvard community more than being the Harvard basketball coach. The fit is what made him a unicorn. If you continue to make the unicorn point exclusively about basketball, you completely miss the point. Amaker can sell Harvard in a way no one else can, because he truly loves being at Harvard. It's that simple. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32835 |
06-18-20 11:08 AM - Post#309201
If I were making $1 million a year, my wife gets a cushy job at Harvard Medical, I get a house and plenty of other benefits while essentially allowing the brand to sell itself, I would love it too. He's recruiting at a level far above Ivy level, something he did not do when in the Big East or Big 10. It's the brand, not the man, no matter how much he loves Harvard. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
06-18-20 11:12 AM - Post#309202
Your confidence in your ignorance is bumming me out. |
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Naismith Sophomore Posts 149 |
06-18-20 12:04 PM - Post#309204
The unicorn assessment is spot on if you follow the Boston scene. Amaker could be Harvard's Admissions Director if he stopped coaching. They love him there. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32835 |
06-18-20 12:05 PM - Post#309205
All 500 or so fans |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
06-18-20 01:11 PM - Post#309210
Well, Harvard hasn’t been in the top 100 in the last 5 years either. So I find that I am unsure why the last 4-5 years of performance seems to be the top of the scale for one school and the bottom for the other. After 4 years, the results are the results. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
06-18-20 01:39 PM - Post#309212
Here is why: 1. Harvard has been in the 80s in SOR the past two seasons. We've documented on here before why some teams overperform their KenPom ratings in their W-L record, and Harvard does that far more often than not. While I think KenPom generally is a better metric than Ws-Ls, every model comes with assumptions, and when behavior violates one model's assumptions, sometimes the inferior model can become a better measure for a team. 2. Harvard lost two years of two different Ivy POY-caliber players. While that "result is the result," Harvard has continued to recruit at that level, so you'd assume that if injury luck ever benefits Harvard, it will see the results it should have seen with four years of both players. 3. Harvard has incredible depth which reduces the stress on any one position to perform. That reduces variance, specifically related to downside risk, which is why I see Harvard's floor as a lot higher than Penn's. While I don't see Penn as that far behind Harvard if everything works out for it heading into next season, if things (namely the interior situation) don't work out, Penn is in big trouble. And that issue seems consistent over time, which is why I see where Harvard has been over the past five seasons as a relative bottom and where Penn has been as a relative ceiling. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
06-18-20 02:29 PM - Post#309220
I think (2) may be more predictable than you think. I think Harvard is recruiting in a range where they are more likely to have players who want to play a year (or more) in grad school at a high major. Not saying that either Towns or Aiken did anything untoward, but I think there is an incentive right now for Ivy players to sit out with injuries. Getting to play 2-3 years as a big fish star while getting an Ivy degree, and then getting a free year or two of grad school while playing at a high major can be pretty appealing. And while Harvard isn’t the only Ivy getting kids who can play at high majors, it is getting more of those players than anyone else. My guess is that the phenomenon will continue to increase, and will hit Harvard harder than anyone else. I think (3) is complex as well. I agree that Harvard gets more bites at the apple, but it also creates certain kinds of inefficiency. When Penn gets Brodeur, there isn’t any question that Penn is going to make sure the system fits the player. Harvard gets so many Brodeurs that there is less commitment to making it work for any one player. Maybe this is an extreme example, but would Chris Egi have been a star at Penn? I think it is entirely possible. Harvard had the luxury of being able to just go to the next high level recruit when he didn’t develop. I suspect Pen would have found a way to develop him. The other thing the depth creates, which is a strength and a weakness, is the ability for Amaker to really play with matchups. I think Penn’s fades down the stretch against Harvard in 2019 had to do with Amaker’s ability to show very different looks. So in a way it is a strength, but again, it takes away from the team’s ability to really establish a consistent identity. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
06-24-20 11:34 PM - Post#309569
Amaker's recruiting lauded by a frightening source, "BallDurham" - Duke basketball publication. https://balldurham.com/2020/06/24/duke-baske tball-... "But wait, for Amaker seems to only be getting better as a recruiter. This week, he drew the attention of 247Sports top recruiting insider Evan Daniels for his early success with 2021 targets: "If the Team Rankings were based just on 247Sports player rankings, Harvard would be at No. 2 in the Team Rankings with two top 100 players and a three-star." All three announced their pledges within the past six weeks. The top two prizes Daniels noted are both four-stars. Notre Dame Prep (Ill.) shooting guard Louis Lesmond, who ranks No. 87 on the Top247, chose Harvard over the likes of Marquette, Wisconsin, and Xavier. And Amaker was able to help convince Deerfield Academy (Mass.) big man Bennett Pitcher, No. 88, to choose hoops over football (he's a three-star offensive tackle)." |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
06-25-20 08:22 AM - Post#309571
Note that, if Pitcher is a top 100 recruit, then I take back my statement about Penn getting a more highly rated big man. That is by far the highest I’ve seen him (for basketball). |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
06-25-20 09:04 AM - Post#309572
Yes, that surprised me as well. Hope they’re right! Also hope these guys can stay healthy |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
06-25-20 09:09 AM - Post#309573
That’s probably slightly higher than I would have expected, but the 100-150 range seemed very fair. He’s just never really been taken seriously as a basketball recruit, so I suspect as he’s rated, that’s where he’ll end up on average. I still firmly believe that Pitcher should end up the highest rated of any Ivy finalist or commit at NERR (and, yes, I’m including Simmons... though we’ll see if he can live up to how he’s been projected and stay in the Top 10). |
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Naismith Sophomore Posts 149 |
06-25-20 10:10 AM - Post#309575
Thanks for the link. Didn't expect Amaker's bio to be followed by a rerun of his program that had appeared on CBS. That certainly does not hurt his recruiting skills and reputation. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
06-25-20 02:19 PM - Post#309599
May Coach K retain his health and vigor for a long time! |
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mobrien Masters Student Posts 402 |
06-25-20 04:07 PM - Post#309613
And may Jeff Capel and Steve Wojciechowski have more success! |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
06-27-20 04:53 PM - Post#309670
247 has now rated Harvard's 2021 recruits: Louis Lesmond 3* .9105 #154 Bennett Pitcher 3* .9103 #155 Denham Wojcik 3* .8798 #215 National Team Recruiting Ranking #9 45.29 score for 2021 compares to 57.28 score for 2016 class that ranked #25 by 247 (ESPN #10). Assuming a 4 recruit class, ranking could be comparable to 2016. |
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84grad Junior Posts 277 |
07-02-20 10:57 PM - Post#309920
I realize the offer to Harrison Ingram is a real longshot, but that sure would be an unbelievable addition to an already stellar group. He just tweeted that he received an offer from THE Harvard University. ESPN #15. Transformative. 40 year decision, Harrison. I can dream, can I? |
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84grad Junior Posts 277 |
07-02-20 11:11 PM - Post#309921
Love the reference to the Ivy League in this article about Harrison Ingram and his brother. https://www.google.com/amp/s/theundefeated.com/fea... |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
07-03-20 08:12 AM - Post#309923
Kinda ironic that Amaker’s former assistant just brought a five-star to Howard last night, shocking the college basketball world. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3058 |
07-03-20 09:52 AM - Post#309931
ESPN looked into this possibility last week. "Why HBCUs could again become serious options for elite basketball prospects" https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/story... - But due to the disparity in competition, resources and exposure, HBCU coaches are aware they're engaging in uphill battles to land some of these players out of high school. Like most mid- and low-major schools in general, eyebrows are raised when a top-50 prospect includes a non-power conference team on his list. When asked to respond to those who might express skepticism over a five-star prospect committing to an HBCU, Blakeney responded, "I'd say they're 100 percent accurate." "I'm very cautious with pursuing this," he continued, recalling a recent conversation he had with a ranked prospect. "I said, 'Hey, look, I'm going to be honest with you. We don't have locker rooms like a blue blood university, we don't have practice courts, our offices aren't what you would see at a blue blood. That said, do you still have interest?' I wanted to be more negative than positive with that conversation, so I don't waste my time pursuing these kids and only do it so they get their numbers up with social media and get in the conversation on a hot-button issue. I want someone that wants to be at Howard and understands what Howard is." There's also the question: What happens if and when a five-star player does pick an HBCU? What if it doesn't work immediately? "Wherever a five-star lands, we can't mess it up," Blakeney said. "If we mess it up, we may not have another opportunity to be able to do it." It's too early to definitively say one of the five-star or high-major prospects talking to HBCUs this month will ultimately decide to commit to one. Williams, whose mother went to Hampton, is No. 3 in the ESPN recruiting rankings for 2023 and might not ever play college basketball. Huntley-Hatfield, the cousin of former Kentucky forward Alex Poythress, is looking at the Wildcats, Tennessee, Memphis and others. Ellis had the likes of Oregon, Louisville, UConn and Texas Tech alongside NC Central on his final eight. That said, HBCU coaches as a whole sense a potential opening right now, and they're only going to be more aggressive in pursuing five-star prospects. And if it does happen? It's a game-changer. - - The social justice movements around the country and the growing mutual interest on both sides of these recruitments would seem to make a marriage between top recruits and HBCUs more likely than at any point in the past couple of decades. A ripple effect could follow. "This trailblazing path that's trying to get re-sparked, it's already been blazed before," Collins said. "It's just time for somebody to blaze it again." - |
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welcometothejungle Masters Student Posts 788 |
07-11-20 07:10 PM - Post#310258
https://twitter.com/iamgxbe/status/128208 728898664... Harvard made the top 8 for 2021 G Gabe Dorsey from The Hill School in PA. The other 7 on his final list are Vanderbilt, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, Penn State, Miami, Xavier, and Providence. 3 star in the #130-150 range nationally on 247 and Rivals. Looks like Harvard beat out Georgetown, Tennessee, and VCU among others to make his top 8 |
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mobrien Masters Student Posts 402 |
08-01-20 01:13 PM - Post#311049
Harrison Ingram, a top 10 player in the 2021 class, just announced his top six schools, and we made the cut! The others are Stanford, Purdue, Michigan, North Carolina, and Howard. |
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welcometothejungle Masters Student Posts 788 |
08-02-20 08:34 PM - Post#311095
https://247sports.com/college/basketball/re cruitin... Gabe Dorsey committed to Vanderbilt this evening |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
08-02-20 09:58 PM - Post#311097
Not all that surprising... |
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nychoops Junior Posts 243 |
08-03-20 08:08 PM - Post#311115
My understanding is Ingram is likely to chose Stanford but hopefully I’m incorrect |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
09-12-20 07:29 PM - Post#313216
Harvard now has three Top 150 players in the class with Tyler Simon coming on board. As good as Harvard’s 2016 class was, and certainly it was deeper than this one, it’s possible that this one is better... and if you think of the 2020 and 2021 classes together (which would be roughly the same size as 2016), those combined hauls are more impressive. |
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mobrien Masters Student Posts 402 |
09-12-20 07:56 PM - Post#313218
Wow, that's another big get. 247 shows Simon had offers from Cal, Stanford, and Wichita, and actually has his composite rating higher than anyone else we have in this class (although they themselves have both Pitcher and Lesmond higher). What's the scouting report on him? Right now, 247 has us with the 22nd-best recruiting class in the country, and, while I know we still have to be long shots for Harrison Barnes, we'd be crazy high if we landed him too. |
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Noah Friedman Freshman Posts 34 |
09-13-20 01:06 AM - Post#313222
Do you think we have a chance at Harrison Ingram? Also what are people’s expectations for this years team? How would it work if college basketball starts November 25th but the ivies already said they won’t play till at least January of 2021. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
09-13-20 08:00 PM - Post#313245
I don’t see Harrison Ingram or Aminu Mohammed happening, but, hey, dare to dream! Still a heck of a class either way. Could maybe use another big, but if there are better options in the 2022 class, no real harm in waiting... |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
09-13-20 09:03 PM - Post#313247
Hey, you can’t say it’s ok for Harvard to wait on a big until next year when you keep dinging Penn for doing the same thing! Ok, I guess maybe the difference is the top 150 recruits. And the fact that Harvard at least has one big in their class. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
09-13-20 10:33 PM - Post#313249
Doesn’t Harvard have a big in 2020? Can’t have a big every year. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
09-14-20 07:57 AM - Post#313251
Yeah, I mean, they’ll have Forbes, Brayboy, O’Neil, Hemmings, Ajogbor and Pitcher in 2021-22, but Forbes will be graduating, and he’s the only one with demonstrated performance at the D-I level. Would be a little more comfortable with Harvard picking up another bouncy rim protector to replace Forbes, but that could either be in the 2021 class or 2022. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
09-14-20 12:19 PM - Post#313264
Yes, I was alluding to Ajogbor in 2020 class. He appears to be a 5, not a even a 4. Tough to fill the bench with starters at the same position. Although, injuries. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
09-17-20 07:18 PM - Post#313568
Harrison Ingram will announce tomorrow at 5pm. Whole world is saying Stanford, and that seems right to me. That would leave Aminu Mohammed as the last big name that Harvard has reportedly been after. |
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mobrien Masters Student Posts 402 |
09-18-20 06:47 PM - Post#313629
As expected, Ingram picked Stanford. On to Mohammed. |
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