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| Username | Post: Ivy Season |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
09-22-20 10:35 AM - Post#313766
Earlier this morning, ESPN mentioned some thoughts on the Ivy basketball season. https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/story... - Is everyone playing nonconference games? Had this question been posed in early September, the answer would have undoubtedly been more emphatic ... and negative. Around that time, there was a serious industry belief that the ACC wasn't planning to play nonconference games. Had the ACC bailed on nonconference, there's a good chance other leagues would have followed. But as it stands, nearly every conference is planning for nonconference games. I reached out to at least one source in all 32 leagues, and I would be surprised if more than one or two conferences opt out of nonconference as a whole. The Ivy League remains a prime candidate to sit out nonconference. It announced in the summer it would not have any competition until after the first semester, and the schools in the league that have gone to exclusively remote learning are unlikely to bring back students or student-athletes until January. There's a substantial chance the Ivy goes conference-only, and doesn't start until mid-to-late January. - |
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welcometothejungle Masters Student Posts 788 |
10-01-20 12:07 PM - Post#314365
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1 311693752... Jon Rothstein is reporting that the Patriot League will forego non-conference play, and is expected to start an 18 game league only schedule on January 1 |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
10-01-20 01:27 PM - Post#314372
What are the eligibility implications of that? If teams play a shortened, single semester season, could players potentially maintain a semester of eligibility? I’m thinking back to a couple of instances in the past where an Ivy player was only eligible for a partial season. One other (crazier) thought — if the Ivy goes conference only, could we play more than 14 games? A 28 game season where you play everybody 4 times? A 14 game season, but with a full conference preseason tournament to open the year? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
10-01-20 01:50 PM - Post#314373
Creative thinking, but I would be shocked if it were anything other than a 14 game schedule and a tournament |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
10-01-20 03:40 PM - Post#314384
If teams play a shortened, single semester season, could players potentially maintain a semester of eligibility? Unless there's some special NCAA edict, then no. The Ivy League deals in semesters because of some schools' eight-semester rule, but the NCAA deals in seasons. Their rules essentially are that if you step foot on the court, that's a season. You can get a medical redshirt, if needed, but no more than 30% of games can be played and none in the second half of the season (why Aiken would have been DQed as a grad transfer if he stepped on the court at Dartmouth). Without a special rule, no matter how many games the Ivy plays, that's a season. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
10-01-20 04:47 PM - Post#314389
As we continue this thread, I wanted to post a reminder about the original schedule. (Since that post, the site of the Tournament has been changed to Harvard)
01-28-20 12:58 PM - Post#297649 https://ivyleague.com/news/2020/1/27/mens-b asketba... A 10-week schedule for the next 2 years. Next year's schedule will begin on Saturday 1/2/21. There will be 3 Fri/Sat Back-to-Back weekends. There will be another 2 game weekend with a game on Saturday and another on MLK Day. The last weekend will have a single game against a team's travel partner. Below is the league's schedule with my guesses with the dates for next season. Week 1 (1/2/21) - 1 game Week 2 (1/8/21 & 1/9/21) - 2 games back-to-back Fri/Sat Week 3 (1/16/21 & 1/18/21) - 2 games (Sat & MLK Day) Week 4 (1/22/21 or 1/23/21) - 1 game Week 5 (1/29/21 or 1/30/21) - 1 game Week 6 (2/5/21 & 2/6/21) - 2 games back-to-back Week 7 (2/12/21 or 2/13/21) - 1 game Week 8 (2/19/21 & 2/20/21) - 2 games back-to-back Week 9 (2/26/21 or 2/27/21) - 1 game Week 10 (3/5/21 or 3/6/21) - 1 game vs Travel Partner Week 11 (3/12/21 - 3/14/21) - Ivy Tournament at Princeton That schedule has 10 weeks in the regular season. If adding in the weekend of 12/25-12/27 (the first weekend without any school having fall semester finals), the regular season could be as long as 11 weeks. They could keep that schedule or tweek it slightly (Fri/Mon, Tues/Fri, Wed/Sat if they don't want to do back/back games) to get the 14 games in that timeframe and maybe even have an open weekend in case any games are postponed. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
10-14-20 09:41 AM - Post#314875
I've sorta stayed out of this until now for a variety of reasons, but I think the next time we'll see Ivy basketball is Nov. 2021. Not saying that there's anything definitive yet, but barring some crazy turn of events, that definitive cancellation is a when, not an if. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
10-14-20 09:51 AM - Post#314876
We may lose a lot of kids because of this. That's not my value judgment, just an observation. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
10-14-20 09:57 AM - Post#314877
My hope is no, at least from the recruit side - namely, that the reasons a student-athlete would pick an Ivy are stickier than a season not happening. But that's probably a naïve view. Certainly will create eligibility issues for current players and a TON of grad transfers down the line. Also, think there are some current players we could lose even before the grad point. So, yeah, you'd hope not, but I tend to agree... |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2691 |
10-14-20 10:36 AM - Post#314879
Disappointing, but I don't see a season either. Hope we're wrong. Those who graduate on track and are grad transfers will receive an unintended benefit. Yale, Dartmouth and Brown should be most disappointed if this upcoming season (and seniors) are lost. Could change if some seniors take a gap year. Harvard, Penn, Columbia and Cornell are in midst of reloading, so this would have been a transition year. Princeton still has to adapt to graduation of Aririzugoh. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
10-14-20 11:03 AM - Post#314880
Only caveat is that Dartmouth’s chances for this year probably went out the window with Knight’s injury. 2020 strikes again. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
10-14-20 11:19 AM - Post#314881
For those still holding onto hope for a season, maybe the Ivy League can look at the CAA which announced its conference schedule about an hour ago. The 10 team league will play between January 2nd and February 28th. Each team will be scheduled for 18 games, which will generally be on Saturday and Sunday with two teams playing at the same venue each day. The exception is that the 5 travel partners will get a home & home either on a Thursday/Saturday or Saturday/Monday. The women will follow the same schedule as the men, just at the opposite venues. No word on any conference tournament. The league announcement does mention that a tiebreaking format will be announced in the next several weeks. https://caasports.com/news/2020/10/13/caa-a nnounce... https://caasports.com/documents/2020/10/13/ /2020_2... https://caasports.com/documents/2020/10/13/ /2020_2... Saturday, January 2 Elon at Northeastern William & Mary at Hofstra UNCW at Drexel Charleston at Delaware James Madison at Towson Sunday, January 3 Elon at Northeastern William & Mary at Hofstra UNCW at Drexel Charleston at Delaware Monday, January 4 Towson at James Madison Thursday, January 7 Northeastern at Hofstra Saturday, January 9 Towson at Elon Delaware at William & Mary Hofstra at Northeastern James Madison at UNCW Drexel at Charleston Sunday, January 10 Towson at Elon Delaware at William & Mary James Madison at UNCW Drexel at Charleston Saturday, January 16 Elon at James Madison William & Mary at Drexel Northeastern at Charleston Hofstra at Delaware UNCW at Towson Sunday, January 17 Elon at James Madison William & Mary at Drexel Northeastern at Charleston Hofstra at Delaware UNCW at Towson Sunday, January 24 Drexel at Elon Charleston at William & Mary James Madison at Northeastern Towson at Hofstra Delaware at UNCW Saturday, January 30 Elon at Delaware William & Mary at Towson Northeastern at Drexel Hofstra at UNCW Charleston at James Madison Sunday, January 31 Elon at Delaware William & Mary at Towson Northeastern at Drexel Hofstra at UNCW Charleston at James Madison Saturday, February 6 Delaware at Northeastern Drexel at Hofstra Towson at Charleston UNCW at Elon James Madison at William & Mary Sunday, February 7 Delaware at Northeastern Drexel at Hofstra Towson at Charleston UNCW at Elon James Madison at William & Mary Thursday, February 11 Delaware at Drexel Saturday, February 13 Elon at Charleston William & Mary at UNCW Northeastern at Towson Hofstra at James Madison Drexel at Delaware Sunday, February 14 Elon at Charleston William & Mary at UNCW Northeastern at Towson Hofstra at James Madison Thursday, Feb. 18 William & Mary at Elon Saturday, February 20 Elon at William & Mary UNCW at Northeastern Charleston at Hofstra Towson at Drexel James Madison at Delaware Sunday, February 21 UNCW at Northeastern Charleston at Hofstra Towson at Drexel James Madison at Delaware Thursday, February 25 Charleston at UNCW Saturday, February 27 Hofstra at Elon Northeastern at William & Mary Delaware at Towson Drexel at James Madison UNCW at Charleston Sunday, February 28 Hofstra at Elon Northeastern at William & Mary Delaware at Towson Drexel at James Madison |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
10-14-20 01:52 PM - Post#314888
https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/10/13/yale- ath... After over three weeks of limited in-person athletic activity in Phases I and II, Yale Athletics is reverting to Phase 0 until at least Oct. 21 after six members of the Yale men’s hockey team tested positive for COVID-19. https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/10/14/yale- ath... With Yale athletics at Phase 0, where do the other Ivies stand? Brown: Phase 1 - Christopher Humm, the director of athletic communications at Brown, told the News that strength and conditioning practice has resumed in Providence, noting that regulations vary across varsity teams in and out of season. “The University will make a decision to advance to Phase II when it determines that it’s safe for the entire Brown community to move forward,†Humm added. - Columbia: Phase 0 - While Columbia Athletics declined to comment, women’s tennis player Tatiana Ziff ’24 shared that she and other Lions are in a similar position because Columbia is also fully remote this semester. “Basically right now Columbia is fully remote, and that includes athletics,†Ziff said. “They were about to open the gym to student-athletes … [but] that has been postponed for two weeks, so we are waiting on that. Besides that, we do not have access to any other athletic facilities.†- Cornell: Phase 1 - In Ithaca, the Big Red have moved past Phase 0 and began Phase I on Sept. 29, according to The Cornell Daily Sun. Cornell Athletics did not respond to requests for comment on when the University plans to transition into Phase II. Dartmouth: Phase 2 - Dartmouth’s Director of Varsity Athletics Communications Rick Bender detailed a similar timeline for the Big Green. “The Dartmouth Athletics Reopening Task Force has been working diligently since March to return our student-athletes to some level of athletic activity in accordance with Ivy League and College policy as well as state and federal guidelines,†he said. “We were able to begin Phase I activity in late September after successfully completing the College quarantine period. Programs began transitioning to Phase II after satisfying our internal criteria for Phase I.†“Right now we are excited that we have been able to resume any level of skill instruction and sport-related activity,†added Bender. Volleyball player Ellie Blain ’24 told the News that Dartmouth entered Phase I on Sept. 28 and entered Phase II on Oct. 5. - - Up north at Dartmouth, Bender said the decision to transition into Phase III will need to come in consultation with the broader college leadership. - Harvard: Phase 2 - The Harvard Crimson reported that the school began Phase II on Oct. 5, exactly one week after the Crimson started Phase I on Sept. 28. - - Although Harvard Athletics did not return the News’ requests for comment, spokesperson Tim Williamson told the Crimson earlier this month that he doubts the school will reach Phase III because increased group capacity and the relaxation of social distancing measures would run counter to Harvard policies. - Penn - Phase 0 - “Since we have no students on campus, there is no [phasing-in] of any athletic activity nor will there be for the entirety of [the] fall semester,†Penn’s Director of Athletic Communications Mike Mahoney told the News. - Princeton- Phase 0 - Similarly, Princeton has the large majority of their undergraduate population learning remotely and have not begun reopening athletic facilities. Student-athletes are, however, meeting virtually with their teams in accordance with NCAA and Ivy League guidelines. - Yale: Phase 0 (from Phase 2) - Last Wednesday, Yale teams entered Phase II of the three-tiered Ivy League plan to resume athletic activities before the Bulldogs returned to Phase 0 Tuesday evening after the emergence of a COVID-19 cluster within the Yale men’s hockey team. - |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1145 |
10-14-20 03:21 PM - Post#314893
Per the Dartmouth football blog, Teevens reports that the Ivy League will contemplate a spring football season among teams that can participate. He didn't name the likely teams, but based on the YDN article cited above, at present it looks like Dartmouth, Harvard, Brown, and Cornell have the best chances. Of course, still a hell of a long shot... |
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Tiger84 Senior Posts 379 |
10-19-20 03:12 PM - Post#315062
Let us not forget that WBB would also be affected by this. With Alarie having graduated but the Princeton Tigers still loaded with talent, many of us are looking forward to seeing if Carlie Littlefield can keep a Bella-less Princeton in the Top 25 for her senior season. It would be a shame if, as appears likely, circumstances prevent the team from showing what they can do on the court. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
10-29-20 10:28 AM - Post#315646
ESPN Mid-majors 2020-21 predictions https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/story... - Jeff Borzello, college basketball insider: I think eight of the nine conferences here have a very good chance of seeing themselves represented in the field of 68/whatever. The one exception might be the Ivy League. The conference already said it isn't playing games in 2020, and assuming the schools that did remote learning in the fall don't have students returning to campus until the second semester, a reasonable timeline for the season starting would be somewhere around February. And if those schools extend remote learning into the spring semester? Ivy schools are not the type to bring athletes back if everyone else is home. There's certainly hope within the league that it will figure things out and have a season, but it's fair to say that is up in the air right now. If the worst-case scenario happens, the world might not get to see a really good Yale team that also would have likely made the NCAA tournament last season. Paul Atkinson is the best player in the conference -- and given that he already announced he plans to graduate and transfer in the spring, the world will see him soon enough. Yale might not get the same opportunity. - The 3 reporters and bracketologist Joe Lunardi each pick Yale as the league champ. |
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Naismith Sophomore Posts 149 |
10-29-20 11:15 AM - Post#315647
I've grudgingly accepted the sad reality, expressed by others much closer to the decision making class, that Ivy League intercollegiate sports will not resume until Fall, 2021. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2691 |
10-29-20 01:13 PM - Post#315654
Agreed. Yale misses out bigly. Any news on what Swain is going to do? Atkinson and Swain would have like been first team All Ivy. |
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ivyrules Freshman Posts 19 |
10-29-20 01:22 PM - Post#315656
I am wondering about Swain too and agree that Yale is a big loser in all of this. Question is, beyond Yale, what will all the league's stars and upper classmen do? If my son were a good player in the league with the ability to get a scholarship elsewhere, I'd be advising him to finish his Ivy degree online, then transfer and have 1 - 2 years of grad school paid for. Maybe even at a big time basketball school. Am I crazy, or will the league lose a lot of talent due to the uncertainly, likelihood of no season + the extra year of eligibility? Conversely, might the league bring in higher caliber recruits due to fewer scholarship openings at higher level programs? Hope so. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
10-29-20 07:08 PM - Post#315675
I mean, if there's no season in 20-21 (and it would be an absolute coup that would likely involve the league not doing the 8-0 thing it loves, so I think there's zero chance but am still obligated to pretend like there is...), Harvard's incoming "class" for the 2021-22 season right now would arguably be better than the 2016 class. So, it is very well positioned for the future. Beyond Harvard, I'd say we're having a pretty usual Ivy recruiting year. That being said, we'd be unlikely to see the stronger recruiting until next year - when teams would start having fewer scholarships to offer given all the extra year players on their rosters. I don't suspect net-net that we're likely to see much change in losing the season, aside from Yale being disadvantaged a bit because it was likely to be the best team heading into 2020-21 (though similar to 2019-20, if the tourney was going to be at Harvard, Harvard might have still been the slight favorite to win the bid this season). I do think it's possible we'll see a headline player or two that isn't a senior enter the transfer portal after the official cancellation is announced, but at a high level, this is a strange enough year that I don't see the Ivy's ultimate decision being all that impactful from a player perspective. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
10-29-20 09:12 PM - Post#315679
How do you interpret all the kids skipping the semester (and maybe the year) at Yale? We know Atkinson stayed in school, but seemingly others have not. Gabbidon in particular sticks out as a kid who could play a season at a higher level if he wanted to, but seems to have instead decided to take time off so he can play his last year at Yale. Two of their strong incoming freshman appear to have decided to wait a year to start as well. We know it is going on at Yale, but is it going on elsewhere? If not, what does ithat mean? Would all of these players ultimately go the grad transfer route, whenever that time comes? Will the league/schools even allow them to stay for a fifth year to play their fourth year of basketball? |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
11-01-20 09:25 PM - Post#315804
If the Power 5 conferences and a number of good mid-major conferences go forward with playing, it would seem logical that the better IL players will either transfer this year or finish school if the player is a senior and play as a grad transfer. On the face of it, IL may experience a significant loss of talent and the league could experience some minor impact on recruiting depending on what other conferences decide upon. Hope that IL decision makers think through their ultimate decision logically which is a question mark based on some of their decisions over the past several years. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
11-09-20 01:53 PM - Post#316283
Some recent updates, with Yale's decision to max out at Phase 1 for the rest of the semester being the most relevant to sports. Brown 10/29/20 Brown plans to welcome students from each class year back in Spring 2021 https://www.browndailyherald.com/2020/10/29/brown-... - The University plans to offer an in-person residential experience for students from each undergraduate class for the spring semester, though space constraints may limit how many students can return. - - All first-years, who will officially matriculate in January, will have the option to live on campus in University residence halls. - - Currently enrolled students will have the option to maintain their fall location of study. But many of those living on campus may be asked to relocate to a different residence hall or University-leased space in the spring. - - All juniors and seniors will have the option to live off-campus in the Providence area without requiring permission. First-years and sophomores are not eligible for off-campus permission, and may not live off-campus in the Providence area, Paxson wrote. Paxson noted that it may not be possible to accommodate all students who wish to return to Providence, given the limited number of single-occupancy rooms available on campus as well as the number of available apartments in close proximity to Brown. - - If more students request to live on campus than space permits, the University will use a lottery, with juniors who are currently studying remotely receiving preference, followed by sophomores studying remotely. Seniors, juniors and sophomores who are currently taking a personal leave, respectively, will receive preference after juniors and sophomores with remote status. - 11/8/20 Dean Jha on increasing COVID-19 cases: ‘We have to watch this carefully’ https://www.browndailyherald.com/2020/11/08/dean-j... - Last week we spoke about University cases rising. This week, again, cases continue to rise — in one day there were seven positive cases — and we mentioned that correlated with the rise in cases in Rhode Island. Could you talk about the increase in cases? If I look at results by week, if we go back five weeks ago we had two cases during the week, then we had two cases, then we had nine then we had 10, and this week is not over, and we have 12 already. So the trend is very clear but the good news is it’s still very, very low numbers. There are three points I would make. One is it’s not surprising — it’s exactly what we expected because we don’t live in a bubble and as much as we can try to have people spend time in pods and as much as we can try to protect people who are on campus, the truth is we live in a community, and when infection rates rise in the community, we’re going to see more cases here. The second thing is the trend is the thing to pay attention to, and the trend is going up. We have to look at where those cases are coming from. A lot of them are in faculty and staff, which also makes sense because faculty and staff are much less likely to live on campus — they’re much more integrated into the community. Try to think about where those cases are happening and do good contact tracing. Third is we have to watch this carefully. We have about three weeks before Thanksgiving, and at this point I think if we can keep things steady, I think we can make it all the way to Thanksgiving without large outbreaks. The thing about this virus is it can shift very suddenly, so you could be cooking along eight, 10 cases and then boom — you get a spike. And it really takes one event, one gathering where a bunch of students get together on some Friday evening and people break their pod and get together, and one of those could just shut the whole campus down. So we have to, I think, remain very vigilant really just for the next three weeks; it’s not forever. If we can get through Thanksgiving then we can decide what’s going to happen afterward, but I think that’s always been the critical goal for this semester. - Dartmouth 11/9/20 Winter term start date pushed back, testing upped to twice per week https://www.thedartmouth.com/article/2020/11/winte ... - Winter term’s start date was pushed from Jan. 4 to Jan. 7 due to the lengthened move-in process for students living on and off campus. In addition to requiring increased testing, the College is also grappling with how to make necessary changes to dining seating adjustments and outdoor activities in order to accommodate the weather. - - Adams said that although she believes pre-arrival testing may show higher numbers than the fall due to “rising [COVID-19] rates across the country,†she thinks that winter term “is going to look very similar†to fall. Student Affairs is still working out the exact details of winter term operations, she said. - Penn 11/4/20 Penn reports 107 new COVID-19 cases from last week — the highest weekly case count yet https://www.thedp.com/article/2020/11/covid -testin... - For just the second time this semester, the positivity rate climbed above 2%, reported at 2.2%. Out of the 107 new cases, 90 were undergraduate students with only 17 new cases reported among graduate students, faculty, staff, and other Penn affiliates. Undergraduate students also represented the highest positivity rate at 3.3% last week in comparison to the other communities. - Yale 11/6/20 Students in three colleges to quarantine, University moves to orange alert level amid 20-person COVID cluster https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/11/06/stude nts... - Students living in Saybrook, Davenport and Grace Hopper residential colleges have been asked to quarantine in their suites until Thursday morning in response to a 20-person cluster of COVID-19 cases connected to the three colleges. The rise in cases triggered a switch from a yellow to orange COVID-19 alert level, bringing additional restrictions to campus included targeted quarantines, additional travel restrictions and increased remote instruction. Yale originally reverted to yellow on Oct. 15 — after just two weeks at green — in response to an outbreak of 18 cases on the men’s hockey team. The cluster appears as cases are steadily rising at the University, in New Haven and in Connecticut as a whole. Yale recorded a record 21 cases on Oct. 28 — just 13 days after the men’s hockey outbreak first emerged. Gov. Ned Lamont on Thursday moved the Elm City to a red alert status and asked all Connecticut residents to limit non-essential trips during the hours 10 p.m. to 5 a.m. - - As of Nov. 6, Yale is reporting a total of 151 COVID-19 cases since Aug. 1, an increase of 42 over the last week. - 11/8/20 Varsity teams will not move past Phase I for rest of semester https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/11/08/varsi ty-... - Varsity athletics will not move past Phase I for the rest of the semester, University Provost Scott Strobel and Yale’s COVID-19 Coordinator Stephanie Spangler announced in an email to students, faculty and staff on Friday morning. The announcement, one of several updated University guidelines as viral spread intensifies in New Haven and Connecticut and after Governor Ned Lamont announced new state restrictions, came just a handful of hours before another change to Yale’s COVID-19 status — late Friday afternoon, Yale shifted to an orange alert level, which pushed all varsity athletic training back to Phase 0 through Sunday. “Based upon our own experience and in alignment with the announcement of the Governor, we write to reinforce and modify our health and safety measures,†Strobel and Spangler wrote Friday morning. “Our goal is to complete the fall semester safely while preserving the academic mission of the university.†- |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1145 |
11-10-20 08:45 AM - Post#316389
Looks like the Patriot League is giving it a go for 2021. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
11-10-20 10:00 AM - Post#316397
We're going to be all alone if we do not play. And to be a broken record, no one would be at risk nor miss any virtual classes if we did a bubble. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
11-10-20 12:32 PM - Post#316429
Cornell planned on opening up to all its students in the fall semester and caught a lot of grief from people in Ithaca and around the country (I count myself in that group). They did have a bump in the road at the beginning of the semester, but put in additional plans to quickly stop the increase in cases. With 2 weeks to go before sending students home for the remainder of the fall semester, the school's results have thankfully been much better than anticipated. If things had been worse, Martha Pollack and her staff would have taken a lot of grief and possibly had trouble keeping their jobs. With the results as good as they've been, they rightly get to take a bow. The eight presidents will now have to make a similar decision on basketball. Not playing is certainly the safest decision and with increasing cases across the country would be the most prudent. If, however, they don't want to be the only conference not to schedule a season and want to do it in the safest way possible, a bubble at Cornell would seem to be the best decision. (One extra wrinkle - Even if they agree that a bubble could be done, there is the tricky issue that they may not want to give preference to basketball over the other winter sports) For those interested, below is a link to Monday's hour long webinar from most of Cornell's leadership behind the data, testing and policy issues that went into the fall semester. https://www.ecornell.com/keynotes/view/K110920 a/ |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
11-10-20 12:57 PM - Post#316437
I put zero stock in the "fairness" argument with respect to other sports. They are free to try and work out their own bubble, but Ivy basketball is the only sports which expenses would likely be covered by participation in the NCAA tournament. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
11-10-20 03:39 PM - Post#316450
6 teams at Cornell, 15 game season, play everyone 3 times (don’t need to even out home and away at a neutral site). Could go back to no tourney for a year, but my thought would be to go the other way and let everyone in (give top 2 a bye). True March Madness, where everyone has to be knocked out in an elimination game. Just tossing out thoughts on how it can work — I will not be critical of what is decided. But I am hoping the kids get to play, at least those who want to. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
11-10-20 03:50 PM - Post#316455
Question is whether Princeton would be in if H-Y are not and if they are and the thing gets discussed seriously, whether the pressure from the players on Harvard and Amaker would cause Harvard to change its mind. Harvard is (sorry guys) ridiculously hypocritical if it says that it must treat its basketball team like all other students and other athletes when it has invested millions more in that team than any other team and admits its players on different standards than other students. A decision not to play this year, when a bubble is easily possible is a betrayal and total hypocrisy. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
11-10-20 04:17 PM - Post#316463
Under the circumstances, I’m not comfortable saying that anyone is being hypocritical or flat out wrong by not playing. They are trying to do what is best for the community. I say let the schools play who think they can do it safely within their educational framework, and let the schools sit who think they cannot. And since you brought up Amaker, I find it hard to believe that he personally is strongly in the “don’t play†camp. I think players tend to want to play, and coaches tend to want to coach. As an employee he may be defending Harvard’s viewpoint, including to his players, but I would guess that personally he wants to play. I would think that is a pretty universal perspective among the players and coaches. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
11-10-20 04:19 PM - Post#316464
Harvard truthers back at it!!! Princeton's a bit of a black box, though I'd be surprised if they cut against the HY grain. The issue is that the talks are happening right now, which, from a data perspective, is not great timing. The stops and starts at both Ivy and non-Ivy programs aren't helping either. There are certainly pockets of optimism out there, but gravity is on the side of don't play. It would be irresponsible to judge any particular team for the decisions they feel it necessary to make in this pandemic, as it is irresponsible to assume that a bubble could work just because it seems like it could work. There's a lot more to it than just time and place. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
11-10-20 04:24 PM - Post#316467
I agree with most of what you said (especially that Princeton is loathe to ally itself with anyone but H and Y). But there is no rocket science involved in creating a bubble---basketball and hockey did it without more than one or two mistakes (and both were in cities, unlike Ithaca). This could be done by the bright minds of the Ivies. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1145 |
11-10-20 04:25 PM - Post#316468
Not that their opinion matters, but... If Harvard and Yale can't play, why would Brown be able to? Are things really that much better in Providence? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
11-10-20 04:26 PM - Post#316470
In a bubble? That's the only way we're going to play. |
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section110 Masters Student Posts 847 |
11-10-20 04:32 PM - Post#316473
It is not that Harvard & Yale cannot play. It is that their administrations have, or will choose not to play. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
11-10-20 05:51 PM - Post#316494
Bubbles are more complicated than you're giving them credit for... |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2691 |
11-10-20 06:25 PM - Post#316497
Deja vu. The second week of March we were bemoaning the league's decision to cancel the Tournament. There were claims of hypocracy (coach Donahue) until the ECAC shut down hockey just a few days later. Harvard refused to participate or host, and so many of us pushed for the remaining schools to find an arena and hold the tournament without fans. I signed Byce Aiken's petition. The league was right, we were wrong, and the NCAA didn't take long to shut down conference tournaments and then March Madness. We just set a record for hospitalizations in this country today. Deaths will increase. In some areas ICU's are already full. Schools will all send their students home before Thanksgiving, hoping to get the back in February. The focus will be students spreading COVID to their families and communities. I remember when Dr. Fauci thought we'd hit 100,000 new cases a day. I'm wondering about 200,000. If Biden was President, he'd be smart to consider a shutdown between Thanksgiving and the New Year. Maybe the new real task force will provide advice that honest governors can follow. Advice that likely won't include athletic. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
11-10-20 07:10 PM - Post#316501
Pretty condescending. The situation now is not what it was in March, when we didn't know what it was or what to do. But now we know how to prevent it, and playing in a bubble gives our athletes a chance to play a season they will not be able to re-create later. Look at what already has happened to Yale. I'm all for public health, but I'm also concerned about the players and their futures. You should be too. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
11-10-20 07:47 PM - Post#316502
If that was meant for me, that’s fair, I guess. I just can’t really get into this topic any more specifically than that. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
11-10-20 08:10 PM - Post#316503
No, it wasn't. I don't disagree with anything you said. I'm sure it's not simple putting together a bubble, but it's not rocket science, either. I was responding to your cohort. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2691 |
11-10-20 11:02 PM - Post#316504
I’m not sure what was offensive. We reacted in March and it turns out Harvard was right. My point was that I see a similar dangerous optimism now. Nevada and Wisconsin just announced stay at home orders. I expect Illinois and others will follow. Northeast is probably weeks to a month or so behind. Over 130,000 new cases today and, again, record hospitalizations. The good news is that the mortality rates are down, although death totals will be rising. Vaccines may save 2021-22, not this year. So, what’s condescending? I’m tired of idiots selling the dream that it’s under control or almost over. So, how do NCAA sports work during stay at home orders? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
11-10-20 11:09 PM - Post#316505
You're just talking to yourself, which is a characteristic of yours. A Bubble that gives our athletes a chance to compete safely when everyone else is playing (not so safely) is win-win. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2691 |
11-10-20 11:54 PM - Post#316506
I hear your proposal, and it is a reasonable option, except for the following: 1. I believe we’re headed to lockdowns; 2. The restrictions will likely impact the participating schools; 3. They will also likely restrict or more likely eliminate college athletics, just as they did in March; and 4. In view of the foregoing, the leaders of our esteemed institutions won’t give a “****†about basketball. Otherwise, a bubble is a nice idea. |
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mobrien Masters Student Posts 402 |
11-11-20 01:53 AM - Post#316507
The NBA did an excellent job with its bubble, better than I thought was possible. But I think people are losing sight of the fact that this wasn't just about good planning. There was a fair amount of good luck involved too. The second wave of cases peaked just as the NBA was restarting its season, which is a completely different scenario than what we're looking at this winter. We already have uncontrolled spread—and unlike prior waves, this one has no geographic center, but is rather everywhere—and it's only getting worse. People are just tired of covid restrictions, and they want to visit their families. The WSJ already has a story about public health authorities trying to get high schools to cancel their basketball seasons. Given that the Ivies don't have the financial incentive to play that the big conferences do, we'll probably be more like the high schools in our decision-making. And we should be. The only thing we should be looking at right now, as a conference, is public health. By that metric, not playing is once again going to be the obvious decision. It sucks, but that's where we are. (Btw, here's the WSJ article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/health-exper ts-warn-o... |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
11-11-20 05:35 PM - Post#316540
Governor Cuomo just announced that indoor gatherings at private residences are limited to no more than 10 individuals, beginning on Friday at 10 pm. Of course, save for households where there are more than 10 individuals. An attempt to prevent a catastrophe from engulfing us during Thanksgiving and the winter holidays, although no doubt some folks will ignore this--and we will all suffer as a result. In any event, does not seem like the timing is right for any indoor sports league activities. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
11-11-20 07:29 PM - Post#316545
I'm a little tired of symbolic gestures. If we can do it safely, we should do it. The danger of people coming home for Thanksgiving is an entirely different issue. We sent kids back to schools and they appear to have been the catalyst for this outbreak. But a bubble for Ivy basketball would not threaten any lives. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
11-11-20 08:17 PM - Post#316549
with regards to hockey: https://www.espn.com/nhl/insider/story/_/i d/302920... - ECAC (TBD start) The ECAC has made no formal announcements about return-to-play plans. As the conference that holds each of the six Ivy League universities with hockey programs, scheduling has to be difficult. Ivy League schools have suspended all athletics until January at the earliest. As a result, many players have left those programs to sign NHL contracts, play on pro deals in Europe or transfer schools. It remains unclear when ECAC will play and if it will be able to count on all of its member institutions fielding teams. - - TEAMS MOST IMPACTED BY EARLY DEPARTURES Harvard Before the Ivy League announced that all athletics would be suspended until Jan. 1, it looked like the Crimson were going to return a team capable of contending for a national title. But then top defensemen Jack Rathbone and Reilly Walsh signed NHL contracts, second-leading scorer Jack Drury signed a contract to play in Sweden, and top recruit Matthew Beniers made the decision to de-commit and enroll at Michigan. Cornell The Big Red were No. 1 in the country when their 2019-20 season was cut short. They're going to have a competitive team once again, but leading scorer Morgan Barron signed his pro deal with the New York Rangers. Barron wanted to come back, but the delay in the season was going to be a little too challenging with his NHL career in the balance. The team also lost top returning defenseman Alex Green, who signed with the Lightning in September. - |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
11-11-20 10:41 PM - Post#316555
I’m still hearing enough optimistic sounds that I’m not ready to say it’s over, but the cases being where they are right now is about the least auspicious environment you could have hoped for to make this decision. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
11-12-20 01:46 PM - Post#316580
ACC, including BC and Syracuse, just announced BB schedules for the upcoming season. There are a number of very good academic schools in the conference including Duke, UVA, WF,GT etc so we are not dealing with a bunch of crazy wild eyed administrators. Obviously, much larger conference with a lot more money at stake but they are certainly surviving the uncertainty surrounding COVID during the football season. I watched WF play Syracuse on TV in an empty stadium two weekends ago with no players missing action due to COVID. During interviews, both coaches expressed concern that one of their players could catch COVID from a non-football classmate but they have established extremely specific safety guidelines and players have been really careful according to them. Facts and reality get really blurred in the COVID conversation but colleges and pro teams have handled the situation very well and that is backed by numbers not speculation. IL could do it if they want to but I have my doubts. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
11-12-20 03:12 PM - Post#316584
18 FBS games have been cancelled in the past two weeks as the surge has intensified. At present there are a bunch of college basketball teams that are on pause including at least two in my general vicinity (Seton Hall and Iona, the latter of which has already cancelled games). I'd argue that college teams have managed better than I would have thought (though that's starting to deteriorate rapidly in the face of this surge), but "very well" is a bit of an overstatement. I just don't foresee Ivy administrators wanting any part of trying to thread a difficult needle with such large downside risk. I don't blame them either. There is no feasible way for the Ivy League to play with 100% guaranteed safety, and I don't think the appetite for risk is all that large. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
11-12-20 03:50 PM - Post#316587
As reported by a few different folks - there's a meeting tonight. I don't think you need a prediction from me on what's gonna come out of that... |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
11-12-20 04:03 PM - Post#316588
Yeah. It was announced yesterday that 8 football players from Maryland tested positive and their game vs Ohio State was cancelled. With Big 10 protocols keeping positive players out for a minimum of 21 days, it is likely the Terps will have more games canceled. I was just talking to a friend at University of Delaware. Two weeks ago, the campus had a semester low 19 cases. Last week, they had a then-semester high of 88 cases. This week, they've shattered their high with 97 cases in 5 days. While some areas had good results during the summer, as a country we've never really gotten out of the first wave. Now, the numbers of positive cases are growing incredibly fast and are expected to get even worse. Based on present covid numbers and past league decisions, its certainly hard to see the IL presidents going ahead with any type of winter sports season. |
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Quakers03 Professor Posts 12530 |
11-12-20 04:12 PM - Post#316591
Here is the tweet from Dana O'Neil: Sources tell The Athletic: Ivy League presidents will present plans for winter and spring sports in calls to coaches and athletes this evening. Stay tuned ... |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
11-12-20 04:15 PM - Post#316592
Yeah, Iona recently had a bad breakout, all centered on athletes. The stretch up and down North Avenue in New Rochelle has been about as hard hit this year as anywhere in America. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
11-12-20 05:03 PM - Post#316600
I agree that an argument as to using the term very well could be made but if one listens to interviews of NCAAF coaches and players and administrators, they strongly believe that the right decision was made to play. They have been necessary adjustments, including the rescheduling of games. Empirical evidence, so far, would suggest that they made the correct decision but time will tell. The naysayers could also be questioned as what they predicted would happen vs. reality to date. Theories are fine but facts are facts and playing has not been the calamity predicted by some. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
11-12-20 05:11 PM - Post#316602
Well, we’ll have plenty of time to debate in the aftermath of this evening... |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3618 
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11-12-20 05:58 PM - Post#316608
Considering the announcement is coming now amid a disastrous wave with daily records for positive test results, that sure seems like a 99.999999% signal that the season isn't happening. Considering my wife and I are debating if we even see her family for Thanksgiving (even when they've already been in our extended bubble and we have been seeing them last few months), it would be hard to argue against. The person I will feel the worst for all around if season is officially canceled is Jelani Williams... never playing a minute for Penn, overcoming 3 ACL tears to come back this year... and have the season canceled. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2691 |
11-12-20 06:06 PM - Post#316609
Today's Sports Update: New Jersey and six other states announced a joint agreement suspending interstate youth hockey competition through at least the end of 2020, Gov. Phil Murphy announced Thursday. New Jersey, Maine, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Vermont, Connecticut, and Massachusetts all have agreed to the suspension, Murphy said, and there are efforts to get additional states to join the agreement, he said. |
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Quakers03 Professor Posts 12530 |
11-12-20 06:18 PM - Post#316612
It's all shutting down again. It's inevitable. The question is for how long. What happens to high school recruiting? They got the season in last year... |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2691 |
11-12-20 06:31 PM - Post#316613
The NCAA and big school sports involves so much money that it won't go easily, but I think it eventually will. The Notre Dame fiasco with fans storming the field is remarkable. The daily new case counts are remarkabe at over 140,000 - and they not due to increased testing as positivity rates are rising. Positity rates in NY are approaching the 3% number that will close all schools. Record hospitalizations now followed up by rising death counts. I've expected things to shut down around Thanksgiving for an appreciable period, and still feel that they should. Not a complete shutdown, but a significant one that would certainly encompass athletics. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
11-12-20 06:32 PM - Post#316614
I’ll take the over on 99.999999%. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
11-12-20 06:37 PM - Post#316616
Also, 18 is now 20 as two more games have been cancelled in the four hours since I posted about FBS game cancellations over the past two weeks. |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3618
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11-12-20 06:50 PM - Post#316618
Yep, totally makes sense Mike, I was being kind with the 99.999999%. It would be a big disappointment as a fan obviously, BUT considering circumstances right now I can't think of a credible argument against a decision to cancel the season. I feel bad for the kids (especially Jelani), but this is bigger than Ivy Basketball. |
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20Penn14 Senior Posts 364 |
11-12-20 07:13 PM - Post#316624
https://twitter.com/DanaONeilWriter/statu s/1327025... Winter sports cancelled |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3618
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11-12-20 07:13 PM - Post#316625
::Insert whistling sound of a bomb falling before explosion sound:: In other words, there goes the season: Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein Sources: The Ivy League has cancelled winter sports. |
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Stuart Suss PhD Student Posts 1439 |
11-12-20 08:17 PM - Post#316627
Official Ivy League statement Will someone please explain what this portion of the statement means? <<Winter and fall sport student-athletes will not lose a season of Ivy League or NCAA eligibility, whether or not they enroll. Students who wish to pursue competition during a fifth-year of undergraduate education at their home institution, if permitted, or as a graduate student elsewhere will need to work with their institutions in accordance with campus policy to determine their options beyond their current anticipated graduation date.>> Please specifically explain the phrase "as a graduate student elsewhere." Does "elsewhere" refer to anywhere else, even within the league? Will someone be able to graduate from Brown, attend law school at Columbia, and be eligible to compete for Columbia? Is this only a reference to grad transfer eligibility "elsewhere" other than in the Ivy League? |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
11-12-20 08:30 PM - Post#316628
Okay - *that’s* surprising... did not hear that was coming. Very interesting... |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
11-12-20 09:38 PM - Post#316635
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/ _/id/303... - "We are heartbroken to be here again," Harris said. "It's based on the current trends of the virus and rates and the impact that has on our campus policies that are going to continue to restrict travel, group gathering sizes, visitors to campus. Athletics is important to all of our schools, to our presidents. All aspects of campuses are being asked to make sacrifices and change the way they operate, and unfortunately that has extended into athletics as well." Harris said the league's coaches and athletic directors came up with alternative options on how to conduct a season, including eliminating overnight stays and changing the way they handle meals on the road. While those options would have mitigated the risk to a degree, it wasn't enough. A bubble for the conference was never a legitimate consideration, Harris said. - - While the Ivy League was the first domino to fall in March, it is unlikely that every conference in the country will follow the league's decision this time around. "This decision is about what's right and responsible for the Ivy League based on current trends and our campus policies, and our presidents prioritizing health and safety of student-athletes, coaches and the greater campus communities," Harris said. "Others are going to have to make the best decisions for their schools and conferences. It's hard to predict the future. The trends are not good." Harris said the Ivy League has not had discussions with the NCAA on whether it will still receive an NCAA tournament share or any money from the NCAA tournament. The league has not changed its policies on allowing graduate students to play sports, despite the NCAA granting every winter athlete a free year this season. - |
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Stuart Suss PhD Student Posts 1439 |
11-12-20 09:45 PM - Post#316636
<<The league has not changed its policies on allowing graduate students to play sports, despite the NCAA granting every winter athlete a free year this season.>> Those appear to be the words of the author of the article, Jeff Borzello, perhaps premised upon the Ivy policy announced earlier this year. Those words are not attributed to Robin Harris as of tonight, and there is a need for clarification in light of the ambiguous language in tonight's Ivy news release. It may well be that the Ivy League will soon clarify its news release and reaffirm its opposition to graduate student eligibility. Nothing in the Jeff Borzello article accomplishes that clarification. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
11-13-20 09:02 AM - Post#316651
From Paul Atkinson: https://twitter.com/paulwall561/status/13 270477366... Glad the Ivy League could finally come to a decision on the season and appreciate them keeping our health and safety in mind. However, the buildup to the announcement was handled poorly by both the league and our athletic department due to their terrible communication with student-athletes. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
11-13-20 09:16 AM - Post#316652
Campus articles: Brown Daily Herald: https://www.browndailyherald.com/2020/11/12/ivy-le... Columbia Spectator: https://www.columbiaspectator.com/sports/2020/11/1... Cornell Daily Sun: https://cornellsun.com/2020/11/12/ivy-league -cance... The Dartmouth: https://www.thedartmouth.com/article/2020/11/ivy-l ... The Harvard Crimson: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/11/13/iv y-... The Daily Pennsylvanian: https://www.thedp.com/article/2020/11/ivy-l eague-c... The Daily Princetonian: https://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2020/11/... Yale Daily News: https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/11/12/ivy-l eag... |
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Stuart Suss PhD Student Posts 1439 |
11-13-20 11:14 AM - Post#316658
From the preliminary research and inquiries I have made: 1. There are FAQs that are supposed to be attached to the official Ivy League news release. Those FAQs are not accessible (at least not accessible to me). 2. FAQs personalized to Yale are accessible. 3. Yale is adhering to its 8 semester rule with regard to a 5th year of undergraduate eligibility. ("Because Yale undergraduates must complete their degree within eight terms, you must take either one or two leaves of absence in order to extend your eight terms of enrollment, should you wish to use your missed season of eligibility at Yale.") 4. The Brown Daily Herald story states, "Brown’s rule that only undergraduate students can participate in athletics still stands." 5. Some schools in the league do not have an 8 semester limitation, and would not require a leave of absence in order to qualify for a 5th year of undergraduate eligibility. 6. However, it would seem foolish for any athlete to pay tuition (in whole or in part) for a 5th undergraduate year and then pay tuition for a first graduate year (if that is the athlete's educational goal), when two year's of tuition could be saved (the 5th undergraduate year and the first graduate year) by completing undergraduate studies at the Ivy school within 4 years and obtaining a scholarship for a graduate transfer year at a non-Ivy school. 7. The language in the Ivy news release regarding competition "as a graduate student elsewhere," appears to be nothing more than the Ivy presidents' customary attitude toward athletes that they can accept the decisions or transfer "elsewhere." I see this decision as one additional piece of evidence of of the hostility of the Ivy presidents toward both athletes and intercollegiate athletics. Donors force the Ivy presidents to feign concern about both. The Ivy presidents announced their decision regarding winter sports on November 12, based upon the medical circumstances as of that date. The medical circumstances as of November 12 were unpredictable on October 12 and will likely change as of December 12 and as of January 12. I note that final decisions regarding in-person attendance by students have not yet been made. Putting aside for the moment alternative ideas such as competition in bubbles, all the Ivy presidents need to have said was, "As of November 12, it is imprudent to start winter sports activities. We will reconsider the status of winter sports again on December 12 and, if necessary, on January 12." Instead, as noted by Paul Atkinson, while leaving the athletes and their coaches in the dark, the presidents made an apparently irrevocable decision which allows them to be done with athletics. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
11-13-20 11:26 AM - Post#316659
I think it's a little unfair to claim that this was even a surprise. Yale came into the academic year trying to get its team to take the year off to save eligibility (and successfully did so with a bunch of its players). Other seniors around the league entered the transfer portal early to get a jump on things. Maybe there's a beef about the communication surrounding how this went from "unlikely" to "officially cancelled," but to pretend like anyone thought there were good odds of this season being played as the summer wore on is disingenuous. I will miss Ivy hoops this year. My favorite sports moment of every year is the opening weekend of the NCAA Tournament, and the centerpiece of that is when the Ivy rep plays. Not having that for what will end up being a span of three years is really sad. At the same time, the current positivity rate is the highest it's been since April and our case counts are setting uncontrollable daily records. My need for Ivy hoops seems really, really, really small compared to that. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2691 |
11-13-20 11:43 AM - Post#316663
Apparently, they wanted to provide some visibility and definitiveness so students can plan. Not a bad goal. They must have decided that given the trend in November, that they believe things won't materially change for the better in time for winter sports. Tend to agree with them. Now winter athletes can plan for the spring semester. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
11-13-20 12:51 PM - Post#316682
Reading between the lines a bit and trying to make sense of Yale and Atkinson, there may be a difference between what the basketball staff encouraged and what the athletic department said and did. His reference to the “athletic department†may be pointing to such a distinction. Also, even if it was highly unlikely that a season would happen, the simple fact of the continuing uncertainty did put the players in a tough spot. For the Yale guys who took a year off, they potentially could miss a 5th year of eligibility that everyone else in college basketball would get. Now at least all of the Ivy players are in the same boat. If it didn’t go down the way it did, only the Yale guys would lose the season. I can see how that choice could be highly frustrating, even if one side of the equation was a fairly remote possibility. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
11-13-20 02:03 PM - Post#316686
I think we (the League) will lose the majority of its seniors. Recruiting is ongoing full blast and the uncertainty is such that anyone who can get his degree and move onto a scholarship ought to do it (in his own interest) |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1145 |
11-13-20 02:38 PM - Post#316687
Looks like the Patriot League is giving it a go for 2021. A friend who is a sports administrator at a PL school tells me that as of today, the PL still intends to stick with its plans. He has no idea whether or not they will let any fans in... |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
11-13-20 03:32 PM - Post#316691
Well, Yale could have an advantage in a sense if they are the only school where a lot of kids took the year off. They will lose Atkinson, which is huge, but they appear to be set to get four years out of a lot of guys. The mystery is Swain. As far as I know, he’s the one player on the team where it hasn’t been reported whether he is enrolled or not. Of course, it is possible other schools have players doing this, and it just isn’t public. There also is arguably time. If players sit out next semester, they may be able to play their 4th year at an Ivy, even at the schools that require you to finish in 4 years (does anyone know if this is true, or if a player would need to pull out of school right now?). |
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james Masters Student Posts 789 |
11-14-20 03:15 PM - Post#316722
No. JJ thought they would play in January. when there wasn’t a definitive update earlier this fall is when Atkinson announced he was going to the Portal and expressss frustration to this end. but there was still hope for January particularly amongst the staff. The rest of the kids hedged their bet by pulling out of the fall semester. |
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james Masters Student Posts 789 |
11-14-20 03:19 PM - Post#316723
Yale is strong next year regardless. They lose Atkinson but if the kids do as the staff anticipates they will have a great roster. of course kids can change their minds. Gabiddon for example could come back this spring stop working for abromatis in Denver and blow his Yale eligibility. Swain cld do the same. Will they? Doubt it. Atkinson who has purportedly expanded his game now heads to the big leagues to show it |
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james Masters Student Posts 789 |
11-14-20 03:26 PM - Post#316724
The frustration is for kids like Wyatt yess and jake lanford and eze dike etc to a lesser extent. not sure what Wyatt does. Probably too late to pull out of the semester. For lanford , feinberg et all they will go into senior year with little playing experience and be expected to heavily contribute. Alausa and gabbidon likely keep doing their thing away from Yale and come back next year. For the 3 freshman enrolled and the sophomores it’s just power 5 5th year optionality |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2691 |
11-14-20 08:39 PM - Post#316733
With 20 Div. I programs currently shut down due to COVID, Iona Coach Rick Pitino tweeted: "Save the Season. Move the start back. Play league schedule and have May Madness. Spiking and protocols make it impossible to play right now." |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
12-03-20 10:27 PM - Post#317560
The Yale Daily News looks into how much money the conference could lose by skipping this season. https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/12/03/with- no-... - Any singular tournament game a team participates in will generate a “unit†for the conference, given for each qualifying team and for each additional game they win. Therefore, placing more teams in the field and having conference members successfully advance increases revenues. According to Tony Weaver, professor of sports management at Elon University and a former college athletic administrator at several Division I schools, tournament units were initially created as a mode for the NCAA to “spread the wealth†without a blatant commercialization of college athletics. “For every game a team wins in the NCAA men’s basketball tournament, they’re given a unit over a six-year rolling period,†Tony Weaver said. “A projected dollar amount of what it looks like it’ll be this year — 2021 units [will be] worth approximately $280,000 to $290,000 [per game], and that will be paid out over the next six years. … You’re talking about close to, say, 1.8 to 1.9 million dollars that the Ivy League earns for a game.†In 2016, for example, Yale’s victory over Baylor in the first round of the tournament earned them a chance to battle Duke in the round of 32 and also earned the Ivy League an additional unit, valued at around a million dollars, that is still being distributed to the conference. As these tournament units add up, according to Tony Weaver, the NCAA will grant conferences these funds, which are then equally distributed across their membership, with few exceptions. He estimates that per unit, each one of the eight Ivy League schools will pocket approximately $225,000 to $230,000 total over a six-year period. - - Although these funds are important for all participants in the tournaments, both Karen Weaver and Tony Weaver said that the Ivy League’s financial stability and other means of fundraising have made the cancellation of fall and winter sports not as “big of a hit†as it would be for schools in other conferences. When asked about the possible effects of having no Ivy League teams in NCAA basketball tournaments this winter, Yale’s Associate Athletic Director for Strategic Communications Mike Gambardella explained Yale’s reasoning behind not participating and the significance of the money provided by the NCAA. “We are not participating in the tournament because of a conference presidential decision due to health and safety concerns,†Gambardella wrote in an email to the News. “NCAA distribution dollars certainly play an important part in our financial forecasting [and] are used to assist us in a variety of ways including directly assisting our students in emergency situations where financial assistance may be needed.†- |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2691 |
12-03-20 10:54 PM - Post#317561
Thanks for this insight. What payout is there for the league for merely participating, not winning a game? Unfortunately, that has been the more likely outcome. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
12-03-20 11:11 PM - Post#317562
Every team gets a share to start and then an extra share for each game in which it appears. So, for instance, Cornell got 3 shares for the league in its Sweet 16 run and those two extra shares above expectation ultimately (though technically cash is fungible) became the Ivy League Digital Network. Every year the Ivy champion appears it gets a share, wins just add an extra share (or two, in Cornell’s case). Also, a share is given even for play-in games, which is why being a 16 seed in the play-in isn’t so bad, because you have a very good chance to pick up an extra share. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
12-11-20 07:13 PM - Post#317954
The AP's Doug Feinberg hosted a zoom call with Harvard's Kathy Delaney-Smith, Penn's Mike Martin, Columbia's Megan Griffith and Princeton's Carla Berube this afternoon. https://twitter.com/AP_Top25/status/13374 277810979... Some interesting comments: Harvard women's team had 7 players take the year off. 2 of the seniors were in that group and will come back to play next year. Princeton had 8 players take a year off and 9 were enrolled. All 3 seniors were enrolled and Carlie Littlefield will be the only one looking to play elsewhere. Columbia had 5 take the year off. All four seniors enrolled and three might play elsewhere next year. Penn did not have any students take the year off. All are big supporters of the Ivy Tournament with Delaney-Smith saying she spent many years lobbying for it. It wasn't until the men's teams were in support did the league seriously consider it. All would like to see all 8 teams participate in the Ivy Tournament. Eleah Parker has not made any decision about her remaining year of eligibility. The work being done with respect to the BLM Movement has been really impactful for the coaches and players. It has allowed all 16 coaches to form relationships and be in frequent contact - in the past, a coach would generally only speak to his/her school counterpart as well as the other coaches in the men's or women's group. The women's league was ranked #7 nationally last year. With lots of back-to-back games in other conferences this year, coaches around the country have been calling the Ivy coaches to get their thoughts on how to play these weekend games. As a result of these conversations, Delaney-Smith expects the coaches and teams in the rest of the country to give more respect to the Ivy League. Zoom calls have been most beneficial in communicating more easily with players (especially those injured or not at practice) and alumni. This will be kept after the pandemic ends. |
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