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Tiger84 Senior Posts 380 |
12-14-21 04:57 PM - Post#331378
Well, this can't be good. https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/us/cornell -universi... One can only hope this is not a preview of things to come all across the league and across all campuses. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32833 |
12-14-21 05:11 PM - Post#331379
If there is no active disease, this is a mistake. It shows the vaccine works. And it will force the "broader community" to get vaccinated. Are we going to torpedo our economy and cause massive civil unrest just because people test positive and don't get sick? Covid is with us indefinitely---it won't go away. The common cold is a coronavirus. Do we shut down the nation because someone gets a cold? What on earth are we doing? |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-14-21 05:16 PM - Post#331380
Careful, P38. You’ll get lumped in with the “deniers.” Our lockdown overlords brook no dissent. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32833 |
12-14-21 05:23 PM - Post#331382
I know---I am fairly heretical on this issue from the party line. The only reason they knew about this is because they test frequently---something most vaccinated people do not have to do. |
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Tiger84 Senior Posts 380 |
12-14-21 05:29 PM - Post#331386
Vaccines *reduce* transmission of the virus and severity of an infection. They do no *eliminate* transmission, nor does it eliminate symptoms in all cases. Yes, these are *generally* healthy kids who will *generally* have mild illnesses. But some will get very sick. And many are going to be going home after finals and risk infecting Grandma. So let's be careful about dismissing this. P.S. Yes, the common cold may be a coronavirus, but that's like saying that a housecat and a tiger are both felines, so let's let people jump into the tiger exhibit at the zoo because Fluffy is so adorable. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-14-21 05:32 PM - Post#331388
You might enjoyMitch Daniels’s commencement speech at Purdue (they kept their campus open last year). Start around 5:05 here: https://youtu.be/2PaQ9GKDO0c |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32833 |
12-14-21 05:52 PM - Post#331393
Let's assume you don't have a Grandma at home. But even if you do, isn't the way to deal with it that you get tested before you visit Grandma and if positive, don't visit? Do we shut down the nation if you test positive rather than protect Grandma? I remember when all this started--the purpose of the shutdown was to provide a bridge for a vaccine. Once there was a vaccine, then we would protect Grandma but live normal lives. Somehow, all of this got F---d up and people are afraid of their own shadow. If you are fully vaccinated, you have virtually no chance of severe disease unless you are immunocompromised---like Grandma up there. We are doing this all wrong. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
12-14-21 06:38 PM - Post#331395
We can only hope that IL Presidents are not forming a task force to reexamine playing sports during the Winter. Nothing would surprise me with this cast of characters. |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
12-14-21 08:34 PM - Post#331402
Vaccines *reduce* transmission of the virus and severity of an infection. They do no *eliminate* transmission, nor does it eliminate symptoms in all cases. Yes, exactly. oh you think you're making a point that defends what you're saying instead of making the other more correct case. We can't eliminate coronavirus. It's endemic. Just sit back and relax bruh. |
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Ever True Junior Posts 255 |
12-15-21 10:31 AM - Post#331424
FWIW, I can't imagine the league shutting down for a second year in a row. Last year, the presidents made the early call to not play and could play it off as "the smartest guys in the room making the smart decision" - that's not to say that it was or wasn't the smartest decision, just that seems to be the way it was marketed. This year, you're in the middle of a season, and all of your campuses are not only highly vaccinated, they also have access to testing that the rest of the country can only dream of. Maybe the biggest thing is that I can say with almost a 100% certainty that schools are not going to hybrid learning next semester. Princeton and Yale have pretty much told international grad students to not go home because they can't guarantee that they'll be able to get back in to the country and they won't be doing Zoom teaching next semester. Brown has just mandated booster shots and testing upon arrival for next semester. We can yell at each other until the cows come home about what should be done, but I'm cautiously optimistic that we'll get a full season this time around. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32833 |
12-15-21 10:49 AM - Post#331425
Governor of Colorado got it right. The "emergency" is "over" and at this point, "if you haven’t been vaccinated, it’s really your own darn fault.” “Our top goal is always to follow the science, and there was a time when there was no vaccine, and masks were all we had and we needed to wear them,” Polis said. “The truth is we now have highly effective vaccines that work far better than masks.” |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32833 |
12-15-21 10:53 AM - Post#331426
I think Gov Polis of Colorado, whom I quoted in the post above this, has better reasoning---those who question the shutdown and use of masks before vaccines were developed were willing to tolerate risks that are unreasonable. They now are reasonable and anyone who hasn't vaccinated is going about his or her business at their own risk. Still, the variants are largely due to the huge number still unvaccinated and that is just a shame. But the cat is out of the barn---we have to live with Covid for the indefinite future and as long as we are all vaccinated, we will be able to live with it. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8254 
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12-15-21 11:44 AM - Post#331431
Maybe we don't know enough yet about the hospitalization rate for Omicron infections, breakthrough and otherwise, across the age brackets to have informed opinions here. Aside to Jeff: Young people ARE vulnerable to Covid, just less so. The data is just starting to come in on long-term illness in younger victims, and it's a real risk. We cannot act like this is not a real risk. |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
12-15-21 11:52 AM - Post#331432
counterpoint, we can. Look man, we accept risk in all phases of our life. They should get vaccinated and we move on. |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
12-15-21 11:55 AM - Post#331434
honestly, I don't really like to be this strident. Unlike virtually all of you, I risked my health in the vaccine trial because I wanted to help out. I believe in the science and I've also got my eye on Omicron. But there are people, Penn Nation being the best example, who have shown they are as intransigent as the COVID deniers when it comes to relaxing restrictions even in the face of "Good" numbers. Since I can't trust them to act in good faith, I have to oppose their lack of guts. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32833 |
12-15-21 12:05 PM - Post#331436
The problem is that the Omicron outbreak at Cornell, which has gotten tremendous attention, with 900 "cases" is an outbreak only because the students are regularly tested. As to the "disease" element: “While I want to provide reassurance that, to date, we have not seen severe illness in any of our infected students, we do have a role to play in reducing the spread of the disease in the broader community,” Pollack (Cornell's President) wrote. So no serious illness among 903 students testing positive, yet the University is shut down and they go back to hiding in caves. This is just ridiculous. If no one is getting seriously ill, then it's like dealing with colds. And, as Gov Polis stated, if people are unvaccinated and get really sick, it's their own fault at this point. The country is going to explode over this issue and the voices of fascism will prevail. Guess it's a question of risk--I think that risk is far more severe. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3054 |
12-15-21 12:05 PM - Post#331437
FWIW, Axios had an article this morning with CDC reported vaccination numbers for US ages 5+: Unvaccinated 23% (73 million) First Dose Only 12% (37 million) Two Doses, But Not Yet Eligible for Booster 19% (58.3 million) Two Doses and Eligible, but Not Boosted 29% (89.5 million) Received Booster or Third Dose 17% (54 million) |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
12-15-21 12:20 PM - Post#331441
The problem is that the Omicron outbreak at Cornell, which has gotten tremendous attention, with 900 "cases" is an outbreak only because the students are regularly tested. As to the "disease" element: “While I want to provide reassurance that, to date, we have not seen severe illness in any of our infected students, we do have a role to play in reducing the spread of the disease in the broader community,” Pollack (Cornell's President) wrote. So no serious illness among 903 students testing positive, yet the University is shut down and they go back to hiding in caves. This is just ridiculous. If no one is getting seriously ill, then it's like dealing with colds. And, as Gov Polis stated, if people are unvaccinated and get really sick, it's their own fault at this point. The country is going to explode over this issue and the voices of fascism will prevail. Guess it's a question of risk--I think that risk is far more severe. not only did we send them back to their caves, we sent them home to grandma who may or may not be boosted. Grandma is still someone I'm interested in thoughtfully protecting. Not at the expense of everything. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3054 |
12-15-21 12:34 PM - Post#331442
With the recent increases in a number of covid metrics, based on the start of the colder weather, holiday travel and a new variant, it seems likely that the eight schools will consider changes. I'm curious what people think would be the best/safest things for them to consider? Some of my initial thoughts - Only allowing fans who have been received the booster would seem to the safest way to maintain the present conditions with regards to masking, masking enforcement, crowd size and concessions. Allowing fans who have been boosted and those with two doses could be done, but schools would have to be more vigilant with regards to masking enforcement and may have to limit crowd size & concessions. Allowing those groups, as well as people with one dose or no vaccines (with or without a recent test), would seem to create too many potential problems for schools to want to handle. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-15-21 02:11 PM - Post#331449
It’s pretty obvious that the vaccines have a small effect on recipient infection risk and transmission risk and a large effect on severity of infection. So there isn’t a sensible tradeoff of community benefit for lockdowns to be had. It’s turned into COVID theater. Noof ne of RBG’s proposed restrictions are needed, and given the brilliant new and improved Ivy schedule there won’t be students around for a ton of games anyway. BTW, those of us unfortunate enough to be subject to University of California policy will be teaching in “dual mode” for the duration, with students who give a “good reason” Zooming into our face-to-face (really mask-to-mask) classes while being promised equal learning opportunities. Depending numbers with a “good reason,” that could be worse than all-remote teaching. |
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1LotteryPick1969 Postdoc Posts 2275 
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12-15-21 02:20 PM - Post#331452
we sent them home to grandma who may or may not be boosted. Grandma is still someone I'm interested in thoughtfully protecting. Not at the expense of everything. What about Grampa? No one ever mentions me, I mean him. |
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1LotteryPick1969 Postdoc Posts 2275
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12-15-21 02:22 PM - Post#331453
You might enjoyMitch Daniels’s commencement speech at Purdue (they kept their campus open last year). Start around 5:05 here: https://youtu.be/2PaQ9GKDO0c Thanks for posting this. Food for thought. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8254
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12-15-21 05:14 PM - Post#331472
I think we are separated by semantics here. You say we accept risk, I say we recognize and manage it. To that end, I am nagging my adolescent daughters to get boosted and try to avoid large indoor gatherings. I’m not in favor of institutional over reaction. What I want to see more of is financial incentives to get vaxed. More companies need to adopt what Delta and Kroger are doing surcharging for unvaccinated employees. Same for the ACA exchanges. They do it to smokers. Why not this? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32833 |
12-15-21 05:23 PM - Post#331473
Because most of the Trumpists live and work in Trumpist bubbles for other Trumpists. You're not going to force the people who reject vaccination in order to Own the Libs to do it through employer mandates. And the courts have made clear they aren't going to do it either. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
12-15-21 06:46 PM - Post#331477
Based on the letter from Princenton's Administration of 12/14, there was no mention as to any impact on athletics. Let's see if they can the men's and women's game (against Texas) next week. If I was an IL athlete, I would have little to no trust as to IL Presidents in light of last year. One gets the impression that "optics" are a major factor in their decision making relative to athletics/academics. I must admit that I have a long standing cynical view as to IL President's decision making regarding athletics. They obviously made the wrong call last year as to cancelling the season but I suspect that they have learned little. If I was a high student athlete, I would think long and hard regarding the IL versus other top flight academic institutions if sports meant a whole lot to me. Last year, we remember that many posters said that it was just a matter of time when all basketball conferences would follow the IL decision. It was obviously a tough and challenging year for all other conferences but sometimes you learn a lot when facing obstacles and challenges. Let's see what the IL Presidents, individually or as a group, decide to do. |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
12-15-21 09:54 PM - Post#331480
P38, I hear you and understand your motives better now regarding masks and shutdowns. Now that I understand, I'm also more agreeable to the viewpoint - the politics, not the health policy. Still, do you need to respond to every single message from others with alternate options? This is just a basketball newsgroup. Can you try to win your views on a Covid-19 policy board instead? It's not the actual opinion - it's just too much. You have been heard - some agree, some do not. I just don't want to read the same opinion again and again. It wastes all of our time. If this is your only outlet to be heard on these viewpoints, write a letter to the editor of a paper or something like that where real policy might be impacted. Discuss with your family and friends. Write a letter to the Ivy League. Write to the University presidents. Even post once in a while about this. Just spare us the number post on this - please! I try not to initiate posts with opinions on covid-19, but sometimes I feel compelled to weigh in when it gets too much. It is an endless loop with no real purpose other than to pound views at us. If you need to repeat again and again, let's make it about basketball. To be honest, that's the only reason I come here. I don't really care about sharing or receiving anyone's covid viewpoints here at all - other than just wishing everyone here safety. |
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OldBig5 Masters Student Posts 639 |
12-15-21 10:59 PM - Post#331486
As a practical matter if omicron starts making its rounds and lots of saunders get infected that will include athletes. So they will be unable to play under the rules until they meet protocol requirements and that may cause some games to be postponed or cancelled. It's already happening in the NBA and NHL. I am not in favor of shutting things down but if this new variant is as contagious as some believe it will be, schools will have to shut down as their staff will also be catching it (talking about PK-grade 12). I think other parts of society can continue on. Those of us who are older or more vulnerable will be more careful. I know I attended a basketball game in Orlando about a month ago. I would not do that now. Everyone's choice. |
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gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3669 |
12-18-21 08:29 PM - Post#331590
I was checking in on today's NCAA scores and oh boy. There are a LOT of canceled games around D-I. And a lot of teams who are playing without multiple starters due to positive covid tests - that's going to skew NET rankings unfairly. The Selection Committee will have to do a deep dive in March to take pandemic absences into account. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
12-18-21 11:47 PM - Post#331593
As you suggest, Selection Committee should consider but it will be a challenging task. Today, 86 men's game were played and 13 cancelled. Women, over 50 games played with 4 cancellation. Over the next two days,12 to 15% of men's games cancelled; less than 10% of womens although these numbers can change over time. Let's see how IL reacts. We can only hope that good judgment and decision making prevails??? Last year, approximately 20 to 25% of men's games cancelled with less than 20% of women's games. Time will tell. |
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Ever True Junior Posts 255 |
12-19-21 04:31 PM - Post#331620
Harvard announced that they're going remote for first three weeks of January, but AD confirmed that athletics will continue as planned for the time being - https://twitter.com/WillMcCormack_/status /14722581... that's a good sign for the rest of the league. I would hope that, with conference play just around the corner, the league has a good shot of making it through the season. Most Ivies are mandating boosters, meaning teams should be as protected as possible. The weekend schedule should mean that you can test during the week to ensure teams are in good shape prior to traveling/hosting. At this point, I do think the league can safely complete the season, but of course, that could change. Hope you are all staying safe and are able to see your loved ones this holiday season. |
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welcometothejungle Masters Student Posts 788 |
12-21-21 04:25 PM - Post#331705
https://twitter.com/YaleAthletics/status/ 147335299... Yale announced that home games will go without fans until New Years, starting with this Thursday's MBB game against Howard. Barring a full cancelation, I think it'd be hard for the Ivy League to handle this situation worse than the Big East has so far. Rather than postponing games due to COVID, the Big East is handing out forfeits for teams who aren't able to play due to COVID protocols. Seton Hall, for example, is officially 1-1 in Big East play without stepping on the court |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
12-21-21 04:41 PM - Post#331706
Forfeits for the pandemic? I’d heard threats for forfeits and loss of pay if unvaccinated, I think it was for the NFL. I guess the medical team is now more important than the rest of the staff and players. No fans is starting to look prudent. Recent UK study concluded that Omicron is no less impactful than Delta. No idea if that’s correct, but prudent to take precautions. Going to be another long winter. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21204 |
12-27-21 04:15 PM - Post#331868
honestly, I don't really like to be this strident. Unlike virtually all of you, I risked my health in the vaccine trial because I wanted to help out. I believe in the science and I've also got my eye on Omicron. But there are people, Penn Nation being the best example, who have shown they are as intransigent as the COVID deniers when it comes to relaxing restrictions even in the face of "Good" numbers. Since I can't trust them to act in good faith, I have to oppose their lack of guts. Guess what, Mr. Bacon? I was out of town visiting a loved one in a hospital's critical care unit last week (non-COVID issue). Or trying to, anyways. It was COVID central--COVID patients completely overwhelming the unit and multiple nurses rushing to rooms and slamming doors. When I first got there, they allowed 2 visitors per patient per day (and you couldn't leave and come back later). But after a few days, they trimmed that down to 1, given that staff and patients (!) were getting infected (or reinfected) by family members who WERE NOT MASKED and/or unvaccinated. So I was unable to visit at that point. And now, today, there NO visitors allowed in the entire hospital network (and another network in the area). It is crucial for my loved one that this visitor be allowed in the room as this will assist the recover room, but no matter--no exceptions for now. People are still acting as if COVID is someone else's problem. Please get vaccinated. Please wear masks indoors. The more this spreads, front line workers and those exceedingly vulnerable to COVID will get affected as well. Hospitalizations will continue to increase and in more and more places they are getting overwhelmed. And in my own case, this has had a profound effect on a family member's treatment at multiple hospitals. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
12-27-21 06:58 PM - Post#331873
Just watched a sports reporter recount how spoke to connections at the NCAA today. They apparently are wondering if everything from the bowl games to the final four will happen |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
12-27-21 09:46 PM - Post#331886
Sorry your family member is sick. But… It’s time to stop preaching. You’ve lost the high ground. https://mobile.twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/statu s/... |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21204 |
12-27-21 10:09 PM - Post#331887
Stop putting me down, man. Now the loved one is in isolation because an employee just tested positive for COVID (so can't visit this person even if visitors were allowed). You're the one with the constant gumption to say "get vaccinated" and move on with your life. Guess what? It's NOT SO FRIGGIN SIMPLE--so STFU. PLEASE. Not with so many who are either unvaccinated (including those under 5) and those who refuse to mask. Folks like these are making my life and the lives of too many others far more complicated. I've been in heart of COVID Central for 9 hour stretches. How dare you presume to know how risk averse I've been. Seriously. |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
12-27-21 10:18 PM - Post#331888
I think you just need to take the L and move on. I’m sorry your loved one can’t have visitors but your preaching/whining isn’t accomplish anything here. Why don’t you agree to never talk about covid again and I’ll stop telling you why you’re wrong? Seems fair to me |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
12-27-21 10:21 PM - Post#331889
Notes covid denier LeBron weighs in. https://www.instagram.com/p/CX4GnUfP0um/?utm_me diu... This is what PNs stubborn whining fails to take in. You’re losing the center. Because PN is so unreasonable and scared, people in the center aren’t taking guidance from them. So he screams louder and more panicked and drives people away quicker. |
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