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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
01-08-22 12:45 AM - Post#332657
Columbia will present a different matchup from the last two games — they play two more traditional big men. Seems like a game where Martz/Monroe will be key. We need to win that mismatch. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8258 
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01-08-22 12:36 PM - Post#332681
Yeah, the Lions are a forward oriented bunch. The don't beat you with 3's (aside from Murphy). They live off of inside points and 2nd chances from what I can see. Martz will have his hands full on the defensive end, likely with Murphy, and hopefully Mosh can handle Nweke and maybe get him in foul trouble. It will be interesting to what how they use Monroe and Spinoso. Meanwhile, they will certainly clog up the middle on defense and force Penn to beat them from outside. I see Dingle hoisting a bunch of them. Smith too. Maybe Charles will pitch in since all three of them will be difficult matchups for Columbia. Penn is -14. Seems like too much unless they shoot 40+ from 3. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
01-08-22 12:36 PM - Post#332682
It also sounds like Princeton had success posting up Columbia’s small guards. So there may be mismatches all over the place in this one. How those matchups play out is sometimes counterintuitive— for example, I would have expected Slajchert to match up better with Brown’s guards than Cornell’s, and it seemed to go exactly the opposite. But my guess is that Columbia will have trouble with our guards, including trouble with our wings where a bigger Columbia player will have to guard Martz and Williams out to the perimeter. And hopefully Columbia’s use of two guys who aren’t a threat from outside will enable Mosh to help out in the middle. That said, I’m sure Princeton came out last night with matchups they thought they could exploit, and they got kicked around for a half before figuring it out. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
01-08-22 12:41 PM - Post#332683
My guess is Martz on Harding and Williams on Murphy (Mosh on Nweke, as you suggest). Curious if Martz gets a shot at Nweke despite the width disadvantage, under the theory that Mosh can help out off of Harding. Problem with that, of course, is that the one thing you don’t want to do with Harding is let him get offensive boards. On paper, Columbia seems tougher to play than they actually have been on the court. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8258
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01-08-22 01:55 PM - Post#332693
It also sounds like Princeton had success posting up Columbia’s small guards. So there may be mismatches all over the place in this one. I do expect Williams to do some of that for sure. I also expect a gauntlet of high screens for Dingle who should have a huge night if he hits this 3's like he did last night. Look for Smith to get some corner opportunities as well against a sagging D. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
01-08-22 02:01 PM - Post#332695
We’ll see. Sounded like Columbia wasn’t doubling much last night. Hard to imagine anyone goes in playing Dingle one-on-one, but I wouldn’t have expected that strategy against Llewelyn and Tosan last night either (Penn has plenty of tape of what happens when you don’t help out against Princeton from 2019 and 2020). If they just try to guard Dingle and Slajchert without helping, well, good luck. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 07:07 PM - Post#332746
Not a good start. Down 8-3 and Penn calls time. Need to toughen up the D. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 07:13 PM - Post#332748
Down 17-7 at 14:37 mark, TV time out. Penn getting outplayed at both ends right now. I think we will find ways to score tonight, but the defense has to be better. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 07:20 PM - Post#332751
Down 21-13 at the next TV time out mark, with Spinoso to shoot 2. Clark, Charles and Spinoso giving us a bit of a different look and some offensive opportunities. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 07:27 PM - Post#332752
Clark becoming more fearless on offense, nice baseline drives as well as up the gut. Penn also more active on D, creating turnovers. 22-17 Columbia, Penn ball. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 07:29 PM - Post#332755
Mosh with a 3, but then Jelani fouls the C shooter on a made hoop. 24-20 at the 8 minute mark for C, C shooting 1 after the time out. |
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91Quake PhD Student Posts 1126 |
01-08-22 07:40 PM - Post#332759
Not sure what the issue is but Martz has looked not so good from 3 point land for several games now. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 07:40 PM - Post#332760
Penn got it to within 1 on a couple of backdoors, but then got sloppy on both ends. Now 34-28 C, 3:39 to go in the first half. P definitely having issues with C's height tonight. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 07:41 PM - Post#332762
He has also had his hands full with the C big men. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 07:45 PM - Post#332764
Charles has looked good from deep, but has barely seen the ball this half. |
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OldBig5 Masters Student Posts 639 |
01-08-22 07:49 PM - Post#332768
Terrible defense and rebounding in half one. Columbia could have 50 points if it could shoot free throws at all. |
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Quake Show Junior Posts 218 |
01-08-22 07:50 PM - Post#332769
We cannot rebound. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 07:50 PM - Post#332770
Down 41-36 at the half. |
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LyleGold PhD Student Posts 1712 |
01-08-22 07:51 PM - Post#332771
Was Donahue being sarcastic in his halftime interview? Can he actually be pleased with our shot selection? Horrible, quick 3s are the main reason we’re behind. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 07:51 PM - Post#332772
Yeah, I'd say Columbia's 9 offensive boards have a lot to do with its 5 point lead. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 07:54 PM - Post#332774
Was Donahue being sarcastic in his halftime interview? Can he actually be pleased with our shot selection? Horrible, quick 3s are the main reason we’re behind. I think we were too scared early on and settled for longer 2 point shots and 3s. We got back into the game by going more aggressively to the hoop, which also opened up better 3 point opportunities in the half. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3585 |
01-08-22 07:55 PM - Post#332775
Yea we are getting killed on the boards. That's the reason we are losing. So much for defense in the this first half. |
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
01-08-22 08:00 PM - Post#332777
Truly awful half of basketball. I wonder if this is the best way to manage your best player. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 08:14 PM - Post#332783
Truly awful half of basketball. I wonder if this is the best way to manage your best player. I'd say 2nd half Dingle is more to your liking? 48-46 C, first media time out. Refs are not being kind to P. Calling P defenders for somewhat ticky tack fouls but nothing being called on the other end. |
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LyleGold PhD Student Posts 1712 |
01-08-22 08:14 PM - Post#332784
It’s one of the reasons. Horrible shot selection is the other. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 08:20 PM - Post#332788
Dingle is getting hammered at the rim, and no calls. |
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91Quake PhD Student Posts 1126 |
01-08-22 08:21 PM - Post#332789
Shot selection is horrendous. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 08:21 PM - Post#332791
Should have been an and 1 for Dingle, instead of a non-shooting foul. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 08:23 PM - Post#332793
54-48 C at the first media timeout, after Penn had tied it up 48-48 on a short range Clark jumper. |
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Quake Show Junior Posts 218 |
01-08-22 08:23 PM - Post#332795
Poor shot selection, especially from Mosh. We really need a big with a will (and the ability) to get to the basket |
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OldBig5 Masters Student Posts 639 |
01-08-22 08:24 PM - Post#332796
Dingle is getting hammered at the rim, and no calls. To be fair we have been hitting their big guys near the rim all night and only some are being called. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 08:26 PM - Post#332797
Dingle is getting hammered at the rim, and no calls. To be fair we have been hitting their big guys near the rim all night and only some are being called. Dingle has yet to go to the line even once. Columbia has already gone 16 times, and could have been more if they made the front end of a few 1 and 1s. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001 
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01-08-22 08:27 PM - Post#332798
Dingle loses Shockley-Okeke on D for a three, then turns it over on the other end. |
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OldBig5 Masters Student Posts 639 |
01-08-22 08:28 PM - Post#332801
Dingle is getting hammered at the rim, and no calls. To be fair we have been hitting their big guys near the rim all night and only some are being called. Dingle has yet to go to the line even once. Columbia has already gone 16 times, and could have been more if they made the front end of a few 1 and 1s. You get that many offensive rebounds and you will draw fouls. In general they have been the more aggressive team. |
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Quake Show Junior Posts 218 |
01-08-22 08:30 PM - Post#332802
Williams needs to step into that three |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 08:32 PM - Post#332804
Right now, they need Dingle back in there. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 08:34 PM - Post#332805
Down 61-50 at the 8 minute TV time out mark, with Smith getting fouled. Very frustrating offensive possessions. |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
01-08-22 08:34 PM - Post#332806
I've tuned in late to the game. A few observations. - I still like George Smith, but I'd like to see him do a bit better off the ball. When trying to give the other players an outlet if they get trapped, he doesn't make himself very open. He doesn't cut hard to the lane - he goes in softly and never really accelerates to create separation. It's possible that he is only a diversion or setting picks, but he won't create any anxiety for the defense at that level of effort. - Dingle can get to the rim or create his three at will. - I think we all like Williams' effort, but he doesn't seem willing to use explosiveness to get to the hole. He'll make a move but tends to slow down and pull it out or pass it out. In one play, he had the whole side to himself 1-on-1 and he wouldn't take his man hard to the rim. He seems to prefer a mid-range post move. Would like to see him facing the basket more and winning with speed (if he still has it). - I am hating these refs. All the fouls seem to be going their way. - Spinoso makes some good spin moves, but doesn't seem to be able to sense when his defender is there to decide whether to shoot. - Either Nweke is amazing, or we are making him look that way. - Our offense doesn't seem purposeful and isn't creating good shots. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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01-08-22 08:36 PM - Post#332807
Force a miss, but fail to control the rebound. Just can’t happen. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 08:41 PM - Post#332812
Penn cuts it to 7 with 6 minutes to go. Some good defense, including a steal by Monroe leading to a hoop. Neither Dingle nor Clark were in during this time. |
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Quake Show Junior Posts 218 |
01-08-22 08:43 PM - Post#332813
Mosh lets someone grab a rebound from over his back, ridiculous. Then proceeds to let Smith cover Nweke and doesn't switch back before Nweke gets the ball, predictably taking Smith for two |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 08:47 PM - Post#332816
Smart play by Clark. Penn in the bonus the rest of the way. Chance to cut it to 5. |
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Quake Show Junior Posts 218 |
01-08-22 08:51 PM - Post#332821
Shot selection is horrid. How is this what they draw up. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 08:54 PM - Post#332828
Clear over the back foul on Columbia, not called. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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01-08-22 08:55 PM - Post#332830
Succession of bricked shots. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 08:56 PM - Post#332831
Charles has not been anywhere near the court during the past 5-6 minutes....inexcusable. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 09:01 PM - Post#332837
Except for the 1 play they drew up after the earlier timeout, then right back to the bench. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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01-08-22 09:02 PM - Post#332838
Dingle absorbs contact but fails to finish in the paint. Painful. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3585 |
01-08-22 09:04 PM - Post#332841
this is a bad loss |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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01-08-22 09:06 PM - Post#332842
Penn misses a billion wide-open 3s and then Martz hits that one. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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01-08-22 09:11 PM - Post#332847
Embarrassing failure on the boards. |
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Quake Show Junior Posts 218 |
01-08-22 09:12 PM - Post#332848
Really bad, embarrassing loss. This may help in the future (and is of ivy relevance): https://youtu.be/atr60tR7Emo?t=19 |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
01-08-22 09:19 PM - Post#332855
It's strange that we don't use more double screen variations to create open threes. I would love to see us make defenders run with Dingle, Charles, and even Slajchert through the gauntlet to either stay on their hip or give up the open three. Maybe Smith too, although he will need to move harder off-the-ball and show he's willing to shoot. I was getting tired of watching Mosh get the ball out high and then make questionable decisions. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
01-08-22 09:29 PM - Post#332862
Yes, I couldn’t pick up exactly what was disrupting us there, but we clearly weren’t seeing what we are accustomed to seeing. Mosh was getting it where he normally does, but we weren’t then getting the normal choices. Could just be guys not moving on the second night of a back to back. But we both weren’t getting the motion we look for, nor was Mosh getting the openings to dribble in. |
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UPIA1968 PhD Student Posts 1121
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01-08-22 09:37 PM - Post#332867
Ken Pom numbers: Columbia is ranked 345. Brown is now projected to win 9, Penn 7. Penn is now ranked 220. Columbia won the game with 16 offensive rebounds to Penn's 6. Gotta have a better presence up front. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
01-08-22 09:51 PM - Post#332872
What is Brown’s expected record now? |
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dperry Postdoc Posts 2214
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01-08-22 09:53 PM - Post#332873
Three things that lost it: 1.) Fouls: 27 shots to 12, which even if they didn't have a better percentage (63%-64%), adds up after a while. 2.) Three-point land: 50% to 31% for Columbia. 3.) Rebounding: 48-31, including 16-5 on O-boards. We need to figure out how to deal with big guys better. We also need to have a little more patience when coming from behind like that; I kept waiting for them to put a couple of buckets together and for Columbia to crack, but they never managed to do it. Instead, we lost our composure in that run in the middle of the second half. Well, if it wasn't a depressing enough evening taking down the Christmas decorations, that made it even worse. As noted by others, would have been really helpful to win the first four games; now the margin for error is pretty slim.
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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01-08-22 10:11 PM - Post#332877
Yeah, defense ended up a relatively respectable sub-1.00 PPP. But it shouldn’t have been even that high if they had grabbed a few more boards. Meanwhile the offense was a decrepit 0.93. So many bad shots. Against a defense even worse than ours on the year. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
01-08-22 10:32 PM - Post#332879
On offense, yes, more patience would have helped. But I also wonder why we waited so long to turn up the pressure defensively. While we wanted to slow Cornell down, we needed to speed Columbia up. They can be a turnover machine. We needed to activate that, as Princeton did in the second half. We finally got there at the very end. Should have done it sooner. By the time we did, there was no longer time to be patient on offense. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 10:36 PM - Post#332883
I don't understand why SD kept Charles on the bench for so long in the second half when we desperately needed points. He was really the only Quaker who was feeling it from 3. Even the threat of a 3 point shooter out there would have opened other things up on offense. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3585 |
01-08-22 10:55 PM - Post#332885
We got back in the game when Steve played his best defensive lineup. If you can’t stop the other team and give up OR when they do miss, Jonah Charles isn’t going to help. I was disappointed out too guys didn’t step up. Jelani made some great decisions but when we needed a bucket he couldn’t/didn’t get one. Mary’s couldn’t score over their big and Dingle was a no show. |
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dperry Postdoc Posts 2214
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01-08-22 11:01 PM - Post#332888
And Princeton won on a three at the buzzer, too. Darn it. On the other hand, Brown lost to Dartmouth, so that helps.
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penn nation Professor Posts 21212 |
01-08-22 11:14 PM - Post#332890
We had a heck of a time for long stretches putting any points on the board. At some point, he was needed in that lineup during the last 10 minutes. The trips down the floor were painful. And he was effective in spots tonight although he simply did not touch the ball nearly enough.
We got back in the game when Steve played his best defensive lineup. If you can’t stop the other team and give up OR when they do miss, Jonah Charles isn’t going to help. I was disappointed out too guys didn’t step up. Jelani made some great decisions but when we needed a bucket he couldn’t/didn’t get one. Mary’s couldn’t score over their big and Dingle was a no show. |
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UPIA1968 PhD Student Posts 1121
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01-08-22 11:16 PM - Post#332891
Yesterday Columbia lead Princeton by 12 at half. The Tigers ourscored the Lions by 27 in the second half. That is how good teams handle a KenPom 345 team that gets hot for a half. So, after three Ivy games, all at home, Penn is 2-1 when they needed to be 3-0 to offset seven away games against 4 at home against including the 1, 2, and 4 ranked teams in the league. There is little evidence this talent is any more than a bottom half team this year. What scares me is there is nobody in the recruiting pipeline to suggest that next year will be any different. |
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Buckeye Quake PhD Student Posts 1601 |
01-08-22 11:48 PM - Post#332898
"We need to figure out how to deal with big guys better." How about getting some of our own? |
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Buckeye Quake PhD Student Posts 1601 |
01-08-22 11:52 PM - Post#332900
So regarding that recruiting pipeline issue of which you speak, just whose fault is that? How many years of poor recruiting do we need before admitting that this coach is simply not good at it? |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3618 
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01-09-22 12:03 AM - Post#332901
We need to figure out how to deal with big guys better. The solution to this is recruiting more/better big guys of your own. This has been my point of frustration for quite a while now. |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3618
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01-09-22 12:04 AM - Post#332902
"We need to figure out how to deal with big guys better." How about getting some of our own? Ah sorry, hadn't seen your comment yet, but obviously had the same thought sadly. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
01-09-22 01:11 PM - Post#332949
The other thing we fell into, I think, is the trap of trying to help on Nweke. The result was Martz or Mosh stepping off of Harding instead of boxing out. I think we needed to recognize that Nweke was going to get his, and just keep Harding off the boards. |
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