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palestra38 Professor Posts 32906 |
11-18-22 02:13 PM - Post#346774
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/game?... ESPN has us as a 15.5 point underdog and gives us a 13% chance to win. This is a really tough matchup. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001 
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11-18-22 04:04 PM - Post#346795
First key: can’t turn the ball over at the rate they did against Iona and Mizzou. With the Mountaineers D generating TOs on 27% of possessions through their first three games that’s going to be a supreme challenge. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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11-18-22 08:01 PM - Post#346800
Dingle a game-time scratch. In street clothes on the bench. Great. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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11-18-22 08:04 PM - Post#346801
McMullen gets the start in Dingle’s place. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32906 |
11-18-22 08:05 PM - Post#346802
Did the line just go up to 35? |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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11-18-22 08:12 PM - Post#346803
4 FGA, 3 turnovers (2 on offensive fouls) on first 7 possessions. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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11-18-22 08:13 PM - Post#346804
Two more turnovers accompany a Martz putback out of the under 16:00 timeout. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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11-18-22 08:20 PM - Post#346805
WVU now 4-5 from 3 to go up 23-9 at the under 12:00. Penn up to 6 TOs. This is poised to get very ugly. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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11-18-22 08:22 PM - Post#346806
A Mountaineer 3 followed by a Penn turnover. Rinse, repeat. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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11-18-22 08:26 PM - Post#346807
Another WVU 3 and it’s 31-11. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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11-18-22 08:29 PM - Post#346808
Odd tidbit of the night: this is the first time in his career Bob Huggins has ever faced an Ivy League team. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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11-18-22 08:52 PM - Post#346809
HALF: WVU 52 Penn 31 Mountaineers an incredible 9-15 from 3. |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3619 
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11-18-22 08:56 PM - Post#346810
I haven't been able to watch first half (probably for the best). That said, I saw Dingle is out, but where is MLL? 0 mins in the first half on ESPN boxscore against a power 5 opponent for our most athletic post player? What gives? |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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11-18-22 09:02 PM - Post#346811
He played. |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3619
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11-18-22 09:04 PM - Post#346812
Whew, OK. ESPN Box Score must be broken. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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11-18-22 09:09 PM - Post#346813
With Dingle out, Steve leaned heavily on Slajchert, Martz, Spinoso, & Monroe, so not a ton of bench minutes available, even as he went 10 deep in the rotation. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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11-18-22 09:20 PM - Post#346815
Erik Stevenson, a 5th-year senior who is now at his 4th school after previous stops at Wichita State, Washington, and South Carolina, is 8-8 from the floor including 4-4 from 3. For his career he’s a .403/.308 shooter. |
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Quake Show Junior Posts 218 |
11-18-22 09:41 PM - Post#346816
Charles can't buy a bucket. We simply do not have scorers outside of Dingle/Slajchert (maybe Martz?). |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2144 |
11-18-22 10:22 PM - Post#346818
Our offense tonight was the Slajchert Show. Spinoso had some good moments, and Martz hit a couple of shots, but we just don't have a lineup that has both multiple reliable scoring options beyond JD and Slajchert and can play the kind of defense we need to play in order to win. Charles' shot has deserted him. He hasn't shot well consistently since early last season, when no one had the book on him. |
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whitakk Masters Student Posts 523 |
11-18-22 11:39 PM - Post#346822
Odd tidbit of the night: this is the first time in his career Bob Huggins has ever faced an Ivy League team. Also oddly, Princeton was one shot away from getting to face WVU in the NCAA R32 in both 2011 and 2017. (I have a photo somewhere of Huggins sitting next to me on press row advance scouting Princeton-UK in 2011.) |
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Stuart Suss PhD Student Posts 1439 |
11-19-22 12:04 AM - Post#346823
Quote from Steve Donahue regarding Jordan Dingle, as reported by the DP: "It's a leg injury, the trainer said he couldn't go before game-time," head coach Steve Donahue said about Dingle's absence. "Not sure what the long-term prognosis is, I would say it's day-to-day now." |
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CM Masters Student Posts 437 |
11-19-22 07:25 AM - Post#346826
MLL not getting real minutes is insane to me. Against the size and athleticism of a Power5 program his minutes seem like a no-brainer. He is a quality defender who changes the way other teams play near the basket. The rotations make no sense and seem totally arbitrary. The way this team is being coached they deserve to get blown out. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6416 |
11-19-22 09:22 AM - Post#346827
Not sure if those are two different points or the same point. The center rotation is the easiest to understand. It’s just been MLL and Spinoso all season. Nobody else is ever on the floor. So that part doesn’t seem particularly arbitrary—who plays more depends on the matchup and game situation. The staff likely sees Spinoso as the better offensive player and MLL as the better defender. Playing from behind, you lean a little more toward the “offense” option. Spinoso’s turnovers continue to detract from what otherwise is a good offensive profile, though. There were a couple of positives last night. We managed to dominate the boards, particularly on the offensive end, and Martz played well. Clark was Clark. |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3619
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11-19-22 12:38 PM - Post#346830
I like Nick Spinoso and think he will become a good player over his career here, but has a current ORAT of 73.7 on 28.7% of possessions. In 5 games, he has one game with an ORAT over 100. These numbers definitively do not help offensive production or efficiency. MLL should be playing more while we have him. They should actually run some plays for his abilities. Pick and roll is not so hard. I've seen Clark do so a couple times but he literally shoots it every time. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6416 |
11-19-22 12:56 PM - Post#346832
Yes, it’s the turnovers that kill the ORAT. If you just look at the scoring output or the “plus” plays, Spinoso is the offense option. But so far the “minus” plays out weigh the plus plays. If that continues, you might as well play MLL as much as you can. MLL does fit the offense now. He’s not high usage, but he’s part of it. Agreed more pick and roll helps. West Virginia’s speed and style seemed to impact our ability to see the floor last night. Seemed to me we had a lot of open shooters that we just never found. On both MLL and finding shooters, more Mosh may help. He sees the floor and finds open guys, and when paired with MLL he makes good interior passes. But we give up some other things with Mosh on the floor. Hopefully the next few games will provide some more opportunities where what we can do sticks out more, and it doesn’t feel like we’re creating some hole somewhere else with whatever personnel choices we make. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32906 |
11-19-22 01:38 PM - Post#346834
We cannot win without Dingle playing. Just not enough offense. He played hurt at Drexel and gutted it out, but Penn needs to make sure he is healthy for the Ivy season. Right now, it would be a mistake to make him a "game by game" decision. Just get him fully healthy. |
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Buckeye Quake PhD Student Posts 1601 |
11-19-22 02:34 PM - Post#346835
Another voice of reason. Be prepared to be shot down though by the Donahue sycophants. What you witnessed last night, if you could stomach the whole game, was a perfect storm. Bad recruiting, nonsensical substitutions, bad coaching and the predictable excuses afterwards. So if this team is a bad as they appeared while missing their best player, just whose fault is that? |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6416 |
11-19-22 02:44 PM - Post#346836
I think we can win some of this next group of games without him. Not Colgate, but the others. Agreed getting Dingle healthy for the Ivy season is paramount, though. Donahue’s statement was comically vague, just like after the scrimmage. And while we lacked offense yesterday, we lacked defense even more. Some aspects of the rotation last night looked like maybe it really was a surprise game time decision to sit Dingle. I think some things will be different against Lafayette if no Dingle — in particular, I think either Charles or Holland will start instead of McMullen and play significant minutes. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6416 |
11-19-22 02:45 PM - Post#346837
I blame you and Jeff. |
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UPIA1968 PhD Student Posts 1122
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11-19-22 03:39 PM - Post#346839
Yes the offense could be better. However, it is the defense! With or without Jordan they can't stop people. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6416 |
11-19-22 04:34 PM - Post#346840
Yes, and it was a problem last year when we didn’t have Williams down the stretch. Not sure we have figured out how to replace him defensively. Of course, it will help to stop playing top 100 teams. We looked good defensively against Drexel, and bad against everyone else. Small sample, but that provides hope the defense will be fine in conference. |
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Buckeye Quake PhD Student Posts 1601 |
11-19-22 05:14 PM - Post#346841
That's a whole lot of I thinks. Sounds like the reasoning, or lack of, for everything they do, by this staff. Btw I'll gladly take the blame if it leads to a regime change. Lol! |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6416 |
11-19-22 05:43 PM - Post#346842
I still blame you guys for about 3 regime changes ago, which “I think” has a lot more to do with where we are in terms of recruiting versus the rest of the league than the current regime. We had a recruiting advantage, and we squandered it with 2 straight bad hires after Dunphy left, which happened to coincide with Harvard and Yale waking up one day and deciding they cared about basketball. It can take a lot of years to reset the narrative. We’ve been doing it, albeit a lot more slowly than any of us would prefer. The other thing that has been quietly happening is that the entire league continues to be down. That is starting to look like a trend rather than a cycle. So to the extent that you are lamenting comparative recruiting outside the league, that seems to be happening across the board to our conference. If anything, it seems like we’ve been gaining ground on the top of the league, more because they are coming back to us than because of our gains. Top 100 teams in our league have gone from an annual occurrence to a rarity. To be clear, I don’t really blame you or Jeff for Dunphy leaving — that’s a joke, obviously. But I do associate some of your complaints with similar complaints that you guys leveled at Dunphy back in the day. That’s admittedly just me transferring my frustration with losses at people who express that frustration differently from how I do. I think. |
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CM Masters Student Posts 437 |
11-20-22 08:26 AM - Post#346868
The Ivy league's restrictive rules used to be something that good coaching and considered recruiting could overcome. But the hurdles have become greater in number and higher in the past 3 years. The current landscape of college MBB absolutely crushes programs that cannot/will not do the following. -will not allow 5th year grad players -cannot/will not create NIL programs for players -Ivy League canceling 20-21 season sent a message to every high school player in the country who might have considered coming - and it wasn't a good message. The Ivy programs sliding down the national rankings is not happenstance... |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8340 
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11-20-22 09:45 AM - Post#346870
This controversy around the fate of the Ivy League has been going on since it was founded. It has certainly taken on a new dimension in the age of NIL and the Portal that makes it more likely we will lose the high-end talent we do manage to recruit. I’d love to say the Ivies can do the Duke/Northwestern/Stanfor d route and fill the upcoming vacancies in the ACC, the problem is I see that as being a viable option for only 4 or 5 of the Ivies. That is a deal breaker. It’s not as if you can send the rest to the Patriot League. Or is it? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32906 |
11-20-22 09:54 AM - Post#346871
The Ivy League is never breaking up. 8 massively profitable universities make their money from the brand, which while originating as an athletic conference, now far transcends it. You see these schools now telling US News to go shove it---any others with confidence they can ignore the rankings? The Ivies will keep playing Div 1 sports as a show, but sports has minimal influence on what these schools do.....and frankly, that is a good thing as much as I would like to see us compete on a national level. |
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Penn90 Masters Student Posts 575
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11-20-22 12:14 PM - Post#346876
I wonder what the invisible new AD thinks about Donahue
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CM Masters Student Posts 437 |
11-20-22 12:26 PM - Post#346877
My fantasy is that one of the Ivy programs gets its crap together and creates a massive NIL collective, which could become a de facto scholarship fund. Removing the financial barrier to entry for potential recruits would be fascinating to see. I don't think it will happen, but it's fun to think about anyway. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32906 |
11-20-22 12:27 PM - Post#346878
It will be interesting to see--neither incumbent is her guy (including football here). But it usually takes mental breakdown or fraud to get fired here. So expect her to stay invisible. |
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Penn90 Masters Student Posts 575
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11-20-22 12:35 PM - Post#346879
I’m hoping she and the new president try to make their mark instead of being highly compensated caretakers
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6416 |
11-20-22 12:58 PM - Post#346880
Not just Penn — it’s a league wide thing. We have a good crop of coaches right now, but they all have been in place for a while. How many leagues have had all the same head coaches since 2016? I’m guessing it’s just the Ivy. The league as a whole doesn’t fire people unless they go 2-26 or have some kind of scandal. |
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Ever True Junior Posts 255 |
11-20-22 02:54 PM - Post#346881
FWIW, re: the Ivy League and NIL, Columbia has made an official effort to create opportunities for its student-athletes: https://gocolumbialions.com/news/2022/11/15/gener a... |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1904 |
11-20-22 11:19 PM - Post#346897
It is too late for the Ivies, as the sneaker companies and TV/media have aligned around select conferences and teams. It would indeed take a league-wide commitment to turn this around, starting with scholarships, facilities, coaching, and now NIL. They would have to reach deep into the unsavory bowels of AAU recruiting as well. Every data point of the past has shown me that the Ivy Presidents don't really care. In fact, I don't entirely blame them anymore. Athletics has totally skewed universities to do crazy things to/for their student athletes. That is why I won't be burned up by getting crushed by the major conferences anymore. NIL and further conference consolidation makes competing with the high majors an even fainter hope than before. I'm OK with that. I'll just focus on the Ivy season. |
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