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LocalTiger Masters Student Posts 438 |
02-28-24 11:15 AM - Post#364079
Things may change over the last three games, but thought it was getting the conversation started. First Team Wolf Knowling Pierce Lee Manon Second Team Lilly Williams DeLaRubio Allocco Mbeng Honorable Mention Okpara Slajchert Neskovic ROY- Mack COY- Earl POY- too close to call still (Wolf, Lee and Pierce could all win) |
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iogyhufi Masters Student Posts 681 |
02-28-24 12:07 PM - Post#364084
PoY - depends who wins the league; Lee if Princeton or Cornell wins, Wolf if Yale wins CoY - Brian Earl DPoY - Bez Mbeng RoY - Malik Mack First Team: Xaivian Lee Danny Wolf Matt Knowling Caden Pierce Chris Manon Second Team: Kino Lilly Geronimo Rubio de la Rosa Nazir Williams Malik Mack Nana Owusu-Anane/Chisom Okpara (depends on who finishes fourth) HM: Bez Mbeng John Poulakidas Dusan Neskovic |
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ToothlessTiger Senior Posts 338 |
02-28-24 05:16 PM - Post#364104
No bones to pick here. Earl for COY is a choice that everyone should love! |
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CM Masters Student Posts 437 |
02-28-24 06:55 PM - Post#364112
When was the last time not a single Penn player made an all-Ivy team? |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2699 |
02-28-24 08:14 PM - Post#364114
Possibly Harvard as well, especially if lose to Brown on Friday. That’s possible for 1st and 2nd teams. Mack is a lock for ROY. Ajogbor should be part of all defensive team - if there is one. He continues a growing history of Crimson centers who can defend and rim protect, but can’t shoot from further than 3 feet (Zena, Lewis, Kenyatta Smith, Wojcik (LOL)) By the way, Wojcik going 3-3 vs Penn in the first half was really helpful, and statistically remarkable. He shot 12.5% last year, but has improved. |
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whitakk Masters Student Posts 523 |
02-28-24 11:07 PM - Post#364129
POY: Lee ROY: Mack DPOY: lean Mbeng but not strongly - Manon has a case, Ajogbor would be my pick if he played enough COY: Earl Lee, Wolf, Manon, Pierce should be unanimous first-team. Nana, Lilly, Mack, Mbeng are my candidates for the last spot - I'd pick Nana today but I honestly haven't watched enough Brown to say that confidently, on paper he's terrific. Allocco and DeLaRosa round out the second team for me, edging Knowling and Williams. I might be wrong on leaving Knowling off entirely (didn't realize how crazy efficient he's been) but I definitely don't think he's first team. |
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whitakk Masters Student Posts 523 |
02-28-24 11:11 PM - Post#364130
When was the last time not a single Penn player made an all-Ivy team? 2014-15 if you don't count Tony Hicks' honorable mention (and there were even 12 guys on the All-Ivy teams that year due to ties) |
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iogyhufi Masters Student Posts 681 |
02-29-24 12:10 AM - Post#364135
I have a really hard time putting Allocco on any all-Ivy team. This says more about the quality of the field, to be honest - Allocco has had a very good season. But he's had four serious lemons in-conference (Harvard twice and the two losses), and he's done this all while being at best his team's third offensive option. His good conference games aren't good enough for me to put him above RdlR or Mack. Matt Knowling has the highest in-conference offensive rating of any player in the League. He has the fifth-best in-conference assist rate. I just really can't imagine leaving him off. |
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james Masters Student Posts 801 |
02-29-24 12:27 AM - Post#364136
knowling was a yo yo at beginning of the year due to health. so far he has been the rock in ivy league play. so if yale finishes well he is 1st team. we arent the same team without him thats for sure. he beat cornell once and without him we would have been blown out in cornell 2. and he wouldve helped so much in princeton II. no knowling and wolf laid a bagel. not purely coincidence |
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LocalTiger Masters Student Posts 438 |
02-29-24 08:50 AM - Post#364146
I will be surprised if Allocco is not recognized. He is the best leader the League has seen in a while, plays tough defense on the other team's best scorer, and was twice POW. The case for him is far stronger than Pouikaidis, for example who is no better than Yale's 4th option. |
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ToothlessTiger Senior Posts 338 |
02-29-24 11:24 AM - Post#364151
Will surprise no one that I support Local Tiger re:Allocco. He is the unquestioned leader on an excellent Tiger team, is a clutch player, terrific shooter and defends very well, usually against the other team's best. No one plays more minutes and, to use an old cliche, he is a coach on the floor. For him not to be recognized would be terrible. |
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iogyhufi Masters Student Posts 681 |
02-29-24 12:04 PM - Post#364155
Just to defend myself a little, I don't disagree that Allocco has been good. But there are only ten spots. I agree with whitakk that Wolf/Lee/Pierce/Manon are absolute locks for first team. Lilly seems like a lock for something to me, and Owusu-Anane has put up tremendous numbers, so I have to think he gets something if Brown makes the ILT. That's six right there. We have four spots left. De gustibus and all that, but I can't think Knowling gets left off - his numbers have been too good (and better than Allocco's). Mack has put up tremendous numbers even though Harvard's spacing is a tire fire and he never has a clean driving lane. Plus he's the top assist man in the conference. Now we have two spots left, and I don't think it would be egregious to give one to Allocco. But does Princeton deserve a third spot more than Cornell deserves a second? Or more than Columbia deserves one at all? Mbeng is fifth on the all-KenPom team, what about him? There's a lot of talent in the league this year, and I dunno that all the deserving players will get recognized. (Maybe they could give one of Mbeng or Allocco DPoY and the other an all-Ivy slot, I dunno.) |
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LocalTiger Masters Student Posts 438 |
02-29-24 12:25 PM - Post#364156
Mack has had a great year, but the tradition seems to be that the Freshman of the Year (and he is a lock) does not get more. That frees a slot. I would not argue about Owuse-Anane over Okpara. Again, maybe the remaining games clarify the picture. |
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TigerFan PhD Student Posts 1892 |
03-03-24 08:49 PM - Post#364431
When Cornell was rolling and leading the league, I would have supported Brian Earl as coach of the year but my vote now is Mitch Henderson. Princeton lost three starters from last year's Sweet Sixteen team and is tied for first with one game to play. Note that James Jones won this award last year with his Yale team tied for first with the Tigers. Earl won the award in 2022 for making big gains with his Cornell team--unless the Red win the league this year, why should he get the award again for another close finish? Mitch hasn't won the award since 2017, despite his team being co-champs the last two years. And if its a close call, you gotta give it to him for making the Sweet Sixteen last year (I don't care if that was last year). If the Tigers defeat Penn next weekend (not at all a certainty), Mitch Henderson is your 2023-24 Ivy coach of the year. |
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whitakk Masters Student Posts 523 |
03-03-24 09:15 PM - Post#364433
I think you've convinced me on this one, but I wouldn't have a problem with either winning. 22-6 and top-100-ish at a program like Cornell is mighty impressive. |
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iogyhufi Masters Student Posts 681 |
03-03-24 10:12 PM - Post#364435
Henderson probably will win it, assuming Princeton beats Penn. The coaches tend to award CoY to one of the coaches who wins the league - 2022 was an aberration, and to be fair, Brian Earl really did earn that one. The unusual wrinkle here is that Yale was the favorite going into the season, but Princeton was the favorite going into the conference season. Probably will be Henderson anyway, but there you go. For what it's worth, though I picked Earl, I think Coach Jones deserves a tremendous amount of credit for helping his team right the ship midseason. Yale's nonconference was a bit of a gong show at times this year, but according to KenPom, Yale has been the best team in the Ivy League on both offense and defense in conference play. If you'd told me that that'd be the case after the Fairfield game, it might've been a bit more optimism than I was ready for at the time. |
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Bruno PhD Student Posts 1422 |
03-04-24 12:01 AM - Post#364442
You can’t give it to a 6/7-loss team but after Brown’s five game run Mike Martin does enter your mind. I continue to believe getting a Cornell into the top 100 is a meaner feat than getting Princeton there. And look at the trajectory. Mitch is tremendous but for me - this year- it’s Earl.
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-04-24 12:04 AM - Post#364443
A competitive race for COY for sure. Earl gets style points for having a team where his coaching strategy matters a lot for their success. Jones indeed has whipped the horse adroitly down the stretch. And Henderson has his players paradoxically playing loose but with discipline and is getting consistent high-quality performances from all his rotation guys. |
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1LotteryPick1969 Postdoc Posts 2278 
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03-04-24 10:28 AM - Post#364460
Per TigerFan elsewhere on this board: Princeton is now #1 in nation in fewest turnovers per game, #2 in free throw shooting, #3 in fouls, and #7 in assist to turnover ratio. I would consider these to be coaching related metrics. Mitch for COY! |
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Tiger84 Senior Posts 380 |
03-04-24 03:27 PM - Post#364490
With 1 game left, here’s where I think we are for the Men’s award: First team: The two best players in the league have been Pierce and Lee. Whichever one Henderson nominates should win the POY. The 3rd and 4th best players are Wolf and Owusu-Anane, in sone order. Wolf will be unanimous first team, Nana O-A might be. The last first teamer could be any of Nazir Williams, Chris Manon, Geronimo Rubio de la Rosa, Matt Allocco, Kimo Lilly. I think you’ve got to have a Cornell guy on the first team and so I’ll go with Williams. Would not surprise me at all to see ties expand the first team. Second team = the 4 listed above who don’t make first team, plus one of Mack, Okpara, Knowling, Mbeng, Gray. I’ll guess Knowling. Coach of the year? Flip a coin between the two guys who stood for a moment of silence for their teammate Stags Saturday night. I’ll root for a tie vote. |
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Old Bear Postdoc Posts 4006 |
03-04-24 08:30 PM - Post#364510
I agree with your views on Owusu-Anane. He is averaged a double double in league play in the key game against Harvard. He had 13 points 14 rebounds four assists, two steals, and a couple of blocks. |
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james Masters Student Posts 801 |
03-04-24 08:43 PM - Post#364511
i think Tiger84's orange underoos deserve a spot on the 2nd team ahead of knowling because after all he didnt play at jadwin. |
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Tiger81 Masters Student Posts 412 
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03-04-24 08:59 PM - Post#364514
So many good players to choose from. 1 - Wolf/Pierce/Lee/Manon/Nan a 2 - Mbeng/Knowling/Allocco/Wi lliams/Lilly HM - DLR/Okpara/Gray POY - Pierce ROY - Mack COY - Earl |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-04-24 11:54 PM - Post#364521
Love Owusu-Anane’s game. He is a problem to play against. Cornell’s giant rotation hurts their player stats, but Manon and Williams are both deserving of recognition in the top ten. Three or four Yale guys do too. I can’t get excited arguing about first-team/second team. I think Pierce to be the best choice for POY based on his stats, his consistency, and his importance to the team. But YMMV. |
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gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-09-24 09:18 PM - Post#364896
POY: Caden Pierce or Xaivian Lee (whomever MH picks as the team's candidate) COY: Mitch Henderson ROY: Malik Mack DPOY: Matt Allocco First Team: Xaivian Lee, Chris Manon, Caden Pierce, Nana Owusu-Anane, Danny Wolf Second Team: Malik Mack, Matt Allocco, Nazir Williams, John Poulakidas, Matt Knowling My only "controversial" pick might be Allocco for DPOY, but he gets my vote for taking on the opponents' top perimeter scorer for 35mpg and containing them without a true rim protector to help. Most notably, Kino Lilly shot 6-18 and 5-17 with Allocco as his primary defender and Mack shot 4-10 and 3-11. Needless to say, those guys are darn good. |
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james Masters Student Posts 801 |
03-09-24 10:59 PM - Post#364911
i would go POY: Caden Pierce COY: Mitch Henderson the rest i dunno but this part is more obvious. i considered mike martin for coy but was obvious to me brown was talented and underachieving in early jan when i got a decent look at them so despite the recent run it"s catch up...he would now be worthy of runner up. #%$@ out of me as a player. but he was good then and he is good now, as a coach. princeton really played tough to finish the regular season and replacing a "once in a" type player and pulling this off is impressive. tip of the cap. caden pierce's offense is expanding to match his blood lines. it's quite impressive. |
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Old Bear Postdoc Posts 4006 |
03-10-24 09:36 AM - Post#364937
League's leading scorer not on your all-Ivy? Really? |
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LocalTiger Masters Student Posts 438 |
03-10-24 11:13 AM - Post#364947
With all the games in, I agree that it is a tough year, and ties may expand on of the teams. First Team Pierce Lee Wolf Owusu-Anane Manon Second Team Knowling Lilly Allocco Williams deLa Rosa Honorable Mention Mbeng DeLa Rosa Slajchert POY- Pierce Roy- Mack COY- Earl DPOY- Ajogbor |
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TigerFan PhD Student Posts 1892 |
03-10-24 11:59 AM - Post#364953
I's sorry Local Tiger, but I just don't know how you give Earl COY over Mitch. Brian got it two year's ago for a fourth place finish and I don't see how you would go back to him two years later for a second place tie. Mitch was arguably jobbed in 2022 when he didn't win the award after coaching the Tigers to an outright title after the brutal COVID year. Brian is a great coach but what Mitch and the Tigers have done this year, after losing three starters from the Sweet Sixteen team, is extraordinary. They win the league outright while everyone thought Yale would come out on top, pulled off the rare three-peat, compiled a 24-3 record and are top-10 in the nation in all the "discipline stats" (turnovers, asst/TO ratio, fewest fouls, FT shooting). Mitch has built a phenomenal program here. That should be an argument for him receiving COY, not an argument against it. |
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LocalTiger Masters Student Posts 438 |
03-10-24 12:09 PM - Post#364954
I don't have a serious problem with Mitch getting it. I think he is doing a great job. I give Earl a slight edge for two reason: 1) the degree of difficulty in accomplishing what he has in Ithaca: and 2) the system he has developed, which seems to make winning sustainable without the Pierces and Lees we are blessed to have. In fact, I hope that genius is recognized by a big money school and he moves on from the Ivies. Then, Mitch can win COY consistently. |
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gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-10-24 12:54 PM - Post#364961
League's leading scorer not on your all-Ivy? Really? 1) I'm judging only based on Ivy play, in which case Lee and Pierce tied for top scorer (18.4ppg). 2) Lilly only shot 38% in Ivy play. He's super dangerous but wasn't very efficient this year. 3) With so many deserving players, including Lilly, I'm giving the tiebreaker to the Top 3 teams who finished way ahead. |
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iogyhufi Masters Student Posts 681 |
03-13-24 01:02 PM - Post#365086
Men's All-Ivy awards are out. PLAYER OF THE YEAR Caden Pierce, Princeton (So., F) DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR Bez Mbeng, Yale (Jr., G) ROOKIE OF THE YEAR *Malik Mack, Harvard (Fr., G) COACH OF THE YEAR Mitch Henderson, Princeton FIRST TEAM ALL-IVY Kino Lilly Jr., Brown (Jr., G) *Chris Manon, Cornell (Sr., G) *Xaivian Lee, Princeton (So., G) *Caden Pierce, Princeton (So., F) *Danny Wolf, Yale (So., F) SECOND TEAM ALL-IVY Nana Owusu-Anane, Brown (Jr., F) Nazir Williams, Cornell (Jr., G) Clark Slajchert, Penn (Sr., G) Matt Allocco, Princeton (Sr., G) Bez Mbeng, Yale (Jr., G) John Poulakidas, Yale (Jr., G) HONORABLE MENTION Geronimo Rubio De La Rosa, Columbia (Jr., G) Malik Mack, Harvard (Fy., G) Matt Knowling, Yale (Sr., F) |
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iogyhufi Masters Student Posts 681 |
03-13-24 01:05 PM - Post#365089
I was just thinking the other day about how regardless of who's "better" between Pierce and Lee (which I think is often a hard question to answer between players whose roles are so different), Pierce is certainly more indispensable to Princeton. He's the one big-man rebounder on a team with a ton of perimeter-oriented players, and I think he deserves a lot of credit for how they turned it around last year. Kudos to him. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21276 |
03-13-24 01:32 PM - Post#365095
Amazing feat for Slajchert. I wonder how many IL players have made an all team list after having appeared in only 8 out of the 14 games of the conference season. |
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gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-13-24 02:08 PM - Post#365100
Like the Oscars, it was mostly what you expect with 1 or 2 surprises. Pierce goes from ROY to POY. He's been super clutch and virtually mistake-free since the day he arrived. While Lee is probably the MVP for the entire season (including non-conf), Pierce was the right choice for Ivy POY. I wouldn't have minded if Henderson and Earl tied for COY, but there's no doubt Mitch deserves his flowers this year. After losing Tosan and Langborg, a 2nd or 3rd place finish with a Top 100 NET would have been considered a success. No matter what happens in the ILT, it's been an all-time great season for the program. I really thought Owusu-Anane deserved 1st Team. Lilly wouldn't be my vote to replace him, but the coaches chose the guy who's #1 on their scouting report. Fair enough. Slajchert making 2nd Team after missing 6 games is... a choice. He's a phenomenal player but that's over 40% of the Ivy season. By contrast, Knowling only missed 3 games and was left off 2nd Team. But hey, it's all about this weekend. I'm sure every player, coach and fan would trade an award for a ticket to the NCAAs. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2699 |
03-13-24 02:50 PM - Post#365101
Surpised Harvard's Chisom Okpara didn't at least get honorable mention. 7th leading scorer (14th in FG%) 13th leading rebounder 9th in shots blocked I guess there are 8 teams and only 14 players named. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21276 |
03-13-24 03:28 PM - Post#365106
I guess there are 8 teams and only 14 players named. And zero centers. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-13-24 04:28 PM - Post#365117
Owusu-Anane would be on my first team, as in if I were forming an All-Star team to compete, he’d be a starter. |
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iogyhufi Masters Student Posts 681 |
03-13-24 05:05 PM - Post#365118
Honorable mention, if I recall right, is just the "also receiving votes" category. Granted that coaches can't vote for their own players, but I think it's hard to make a case that Okpara should crack a top 10 even without, say, all the Princeton or Yale players (for those two teams' ballots respectively). |
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Old Bear Postdoc Posts 4006 |
03-13-24 06:50 PM - Post#365127
I agree with the Pierce choice. Brown had one first teamer and one almost. I love that they’re both back next year.. |
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Bryan Junior Posts 234 |
03-13-24 07:07 PM - Post#365128
Is anyone sure if it takes one, two or a larger number of votes to make Honorable Mention All-Ivy? If it only takes one and you can't vote for your players, then you can tell exactly who Jones voted for. There were 5 on first team, 6 on second team and 3 HM. Since there were 4 from Yale included in the 14, he had to vote for all 10 others. |
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whitakk Masters Student Posts 523 |
03-13-24 07:54 PM - Post#365132
Is anyone sure if it takes one, two or a larger number of votes to make Honorable Mention All-Ivy? If it only takes one and you can't vote for your players, then you can tell exactly who Jones voted for. There were 5 on first team, 6 on second team and 3 HM. Since there were 4 from Yale included in the 14, he had to vote for all 10 others. Clever! But in 2021-22, there were 11 All-Ivy honorees and only one honorable mention, yet Princeton had three All-Ivy players, so either Mitch voted for someone who wasn't HM or the own-team restriction didn't apply; whichever is probably still true today. |
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Bryan Junior Posts 234 |
03-13-24 08:40 PM - Post#365134
Thanks for that addition. My tentative conclusion based on your example is that a player at this point needs more than 1 vote to get All-Ivy HM. Agree? Other options? |
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iogyhufi Masters Student Posts 681 |
03-13-24 08:53 PM - Post#365135
Huh, I think you're right! Good catch. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6415 |
03-14-24 11:58 AM - Post#365171
My guess is that it depends. I think they are looking for a cutoff in the curve. So they don’t break ties. Some years, one vote gets you HM. Some years it doesn’t. I would guess that Rubio, Mack, and Knowling got more than one vote, and Okpara and maybe a couple others (Mahoney, Neskobic) got one. But who knows. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6415 |
03-14-24 12:06 PM - Post#365172
Not sure I understand the “no centers” comment. I see one center on first team (Wolf) and one on the second team (Nana). you could make an argument that Pierce plays center too. And Okpara doesn’t generally play center for Harvard, anyway. |
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