AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4361
Reg: 11-21-04
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06-30-05 09:41 AM - Post#8562
DP confirms we play them at Cameron this year although no date is settled. No mention of Nova in AC although it's possible.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4361
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Nova 06-30-05 10:21 AM - Post#8563
In response to AsiaSunset
Should have been clearer - DP says that Nova will play us at the Palestra although I'm just offering up the possibility that the venue may not be set in concrete. The schedules often are adjusted. Full sched to be published in August. For now - it's the Palestra according to the DP
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Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 574
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Nova 06-30-05 12:23 PM - Post#8564
In response to AsiaSunset
Bigger news is Roger Reina leaving the wrestling program. That's a huge blow.
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1172
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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Re: Duke 06-30-05 02:56 PM - Post#8565
In response to AsiaSunset
Wonder if a return visit to Penn is in the offing. My understanding is that Fran and Krz---ski have tried to schedule this for years but that the Duke coach insisted that any return game at Philly be played at the FUCenter (or whatever they're calling it these days) instead of the Palestra.
I wonder if they ever worked that out or if this is a one-off at Cameron.
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mshimmy
Sophomore
Posts: 193
Loc: Miami, FL
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Duke 06-30-05 05:29 PM - Post#8566
In response to AsiaSunset
With the exception of the regionally televised tournament games, this could be the first nationally televised Quaker game in over 4 years. Depending on the date I'd definitely be interested in making that trip.
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Rob
maximus
Posts: 327
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Duke 07-01-05 03:15 PM - Post#8567
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Coach K's last trip to Philadelphia, I believe, coincided with the NCAA Eastern Regional scheduled at the end of that season. In other words, he came to give his guys a look at the building, on the chance they might have a couple more games there.
I'd be surprised if he ever comes to the Palestra, or if he comes to your big building until a regional is scheduled there.
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munchkininvasion
newbie
Posts: 9
Reg: 12-10-04
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Re: Duke 07-02-05 04:16 PM - Post#8568
In response to AsiaSunset
Duke's return trip in 2006-07 is a definite down year for them.
P.S.: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated. -Mitch Hedberg |
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Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 02:00 PM - Post#8569
In response to munchkininvasion
Who says Duke is returning?
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Anonymous
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 02:37 PM - Post#8570
In response to Howard Gensler
Is the reason Duke isn't returning because they were willing to return to play us at the Wachovia Center and we insisted on the Palestra and they said no, we'll only play at Cameron now? Because if it is that has to be the stupidest, most stubborn thing I've ever heard. It'd be one thing to refuse to play them at all because you want a 1-for-1 at your home building. Quite another thing to deny your fans a chance to see Duke in a favorable situation where you control a ton of tickets.
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SFlaQuaker
Postdoc
Posts: 2427
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 05:09 PM - Post#8571
In response to
What makes you think playing them at the Wachovia Center would be so favorable? Duke bball has more fans around the nation than any other program, it could be a very proDuke (or even) crowd.
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DCAJedi
Masters Student
Posts: 582
Age: 40
Loc: Somewhere.
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 05:16 PM - Post#8572
In response to SFlaQuaker
Drop the could and replace it with will.
If you think that the city of Philadelphia will magically come to the Wachovia Center and drown out the Duke fans you are deluding yourself.
And there are plenty of Duke fans in the Philadelphia area -- not to mention New Jersey and New York -- that would be at that game even if no other Duke fans came.
On top of that, it wouldn't even be clear-cut that Penn make money off the game. I am sure there would be a substantial rent payment, and I don't agree with the assumption that Penn would control so many tickets.
Finally, the Palestra is what it is for a reason. We should want to play Duke in one of the only college arenas in the nation that is as celebrated as Cameron. The Wachovia Center does not have nearly the history, and certainly not the atmosphere.
"Here will be an old abusing of God's patience, and the king's English." |
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Anonymous
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 06:12 PM - Post#8573
In response to DCAJedi
If it's a home game we control the tickets right? So wouldn't we have several thousand fans there? Again, the issue isn't Palestra or Wachovia, it's Wachovia or nothing. There are two things going on there,
1. It's incredibly rude to us fans to give us crud like Rider and American and not give us a chance to see Duke. Terribly disappointing and shortsighted.
2. more important, if we're already willing to go down to Duke and play in a hostile environment and get on national tv, why not play them again. In for a dime, in for a dollar.
Again, logically I understand, though disagree with, the idea of refusing to play them at all if they won't play at the Palestra. But once we agree to go down to Duke, it becomes stupid, moronic pride that hurts the fans (we don't get to see our team play Duke close to home) and the team (unless playing Duke at all is a bad idea to start with in which case why are we playing them once?)
Again, logic does not support refusing a Wachovia game IF YOU'VE ALREADY AGREED TO A CAMERON GAME.
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SFlaQuaker
Postdoc
Posts: 2427
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 06:26 PM - Post#8574
In response to
It sets a bad precedent. Why then shouldn't a Top 5 Villanova team demand we play them at Wachovia this year? The Palestra is our home stadium; if a team wants to demand that Nova play them at Wachovia, fine, it's a home stadium for them.
On top of that, if you're counting on the Wachovia game as a money maker, and that's your reason...then if the game was there, wouldn't you think Penn should put us season ticket holders (and the students) up the corners like Nova does, and sell the good seats for profit?
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Anonymous
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 06:32 PM - Post#8575
In response to SFlaQuaker
One, I've never ever talked about making money with this. Though I'm sure they would, but again, I don't care about that. I care about seeing Duke without driving down to Cameron, paying hundreds of dollars to a scalper, and watching Penn lose by 35.
It also "sets a bad precendent" to agree to away games without a return date. Why did we break that? Well, because it's Duke. Let's take your reasoning out further. What if we agreed to play Duke for the next 10 years? Duke said you have two options. Play 5 games at Cam, 5 games at Wachovia, or play 10 games at Cameron. If you agreed to 10 games at Cameron, you should be replaced as the AD and have your head examined.
Nova can try insist on anything they want (and they did back in the day and no one gave in to them) but it won't work because of the Big 5 backlash they'd get.
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Anonymous
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 06:38 PM - Post#8576
In response to
Jeff....I'm surprised with you. There are a number of times in the past where we have agreed to play an away game without a return. Here are just a few. Michigan. USC (twice). NCState. Colorado. (I'm assuming Hawaii will not come back also). Not that this matters, but Princeton does it too (and did it for Duke).
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Anonymous
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 06:48 PM - Post#8577
In response to
94, evidently I'm not explaining myself well. If we agreed to go to Duke without coming home, that's totally ok. Happens all the time. What I'm quibbling with is the idea that the team offers to come back and we tell them no because it's not at the Palestra. That's insane to me, especially it being Duke who all the fans would like to see. If Hawaii insisted on that, I'd laugh at them and say no thanks, because no one wants to see Hawaii or NC State.
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SFlaQuaker
Postdoc
Posts: 2427
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 07:04 PM - Post#8578
In response to
So really, they should design their schedule around what Jeff wants?
And why not give it to Nova? People want to see those games cause theyre Big 5..we should only do it for Duke?
Believe me, I'd love to see Penn play Duke in person....and I'm not so sure I have a problem with us playing them at Wachovia...But I also very much respect the fact that the Palestra is our home stadium, and we shouldn't let other teams dictate where we play our games.
It's not like we're talking about Nova's ski lodge vs. Wachovia...we're talking about one of the great stadiums in college sports!! Coaches should WANT to play there...just ask Gary Williams and Bo Ryan.
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Anonymous
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 07:57 PM - Post#8579
In response to SFlaQuaker
You're not following the logic. Again, we've already let them dictate things. Now we're just being stubborn and causing OURSELVES problems. It's no skin off Duke's nose, it is skin off our nose. Until you present logic, we have nothing to say.
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SFlaQuaker
Postdoc
Posts: 2427
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 08:05 PM - Post#8580
In response to
The logic is a game against Duke at the Wachovia Center would be more of a home game for them than it would be for us. It also shows a lack of respect for our program and our stadium that they will only play at Wachovia. You have a right to your opinion, and I don't fully disagree w/ you, but I also understand the logic of not wanting to play them there.
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Anonymous
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 08:08 PM - Post#8581
In response to SFlaQuaker
No, because if that was the case, then why play them at their place? If we refused to play them at their place, i could understand though disagree. once we agreed to play at their place then...
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SFlaQuaker
Postdoc
Posts: 2427
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 08:12 PM - Post#8582
In response to
Then I guess it's all about personal opinion. I'd rather just play at Cameron, on espn, then play there and then play at Wachovia to appease them.
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Anonymous
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 09:02 PM - Post#8583
In response to SFlaQuaker
Argh, listen, you're not appeasing them. Or rather, you're already appeasing them. You just made things better for them. We just gave them a home game and didn't ask anything in return. Turn it around, you decide to trade loan someone 50 thousand bucks, and they tell you they'll pay you back plus interest. Then, at the last minute, they say they'll pay you the 50 K but they ain't paying 8% interest, they'll pay 5% instead. Now, you could decide to not lend them the money - totally reasonable, even though the going rate is basically something like 6%. Instead, to show them they're not the boss of you, you lend them the money but tell em not to pay you any money whatsoever. There, you sure showed them. They'll have to take their 50 K and not pay you back. Real smart.
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SFlaQuaker
Postdoc
Posts: 2427
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Duke 07-03-05 10:27 PM - Post#8584
In response to
You can't make analogies like that to basketball scheduling....just doesn't work, sorry.
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DCAJedi
Masters Student
Posts: 582
Age: 40
Loc: Somewhere.
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Duke 07-04-05 01:14 AM - Post#8585
In response to SFlaQuaker
if our home arena was anything other than what it is, or possibly allen fieldhouse or pauley pavilion, i would perfectly well understand the rationale for going to the wachovia center and i would probably even agree with it.
but we have a special case, and in my opinion the palestra should be accorded the respect it deserves. not least because cameron was designed by a penn architect who had the palestra very much in mind.
http://goduke.collegesports.com/facilities/cameron.html
"Here will be an old abusing of God's patience, and the king's English." |
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TomPittsburgh
maximus
Posts: 538
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Reg: 11-28-04
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Re: Duke 07-04-05 12:11 PM - Post#8586
In response to DCAJedi
Personally I see little advantage to a game against Duke at Cameron and on national television. Losing by 20 (at best) on national television certainly doesn't help recruiting. Why not play someone we have a chance of beating -- and, no, that doesn't mean Rider -- we might not beat them! Why not play Seton Hall or UVA?
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Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Duke 07-04-05 01:42 PM - Post#8587
In response to TomPittsburgh
Penn's playing at Duke has little to do with Duke. It has to do with ESPN. ESPN offered Penn the Duke game last year and the Quakers chose not to take it - no idea why - maybe the date ddn't work. So Princeton got the ESPN Duke game instead. It's hard to see how Princeton being on ESPN helps Penn. This year Penn took the game. It's basically the only way the team can get on ESPN - although why they don't do Penn-Princeton every year is beyond me - so it's either Duke or no national TV.
Whether Duke comes back is a separate issue. Penn at Cameron is a TV game. We're not doing anything for Duke, Duke is going to be on TV anyway and they'll have the game at home anyway. They just happen to be playing Penn this year (when Penn is going to be a little inexperienced in early December and Duke should be very experienced and awesome - oh well).
Why Coach K - he's a leader not a basketball coach - won't come back to the Palestra is the part that baffles me. Duke plays in pro arenas all the time and even at the Palestra I'm sure three or four thousand Duke fans could get tickets. I can't imagine Coach K is concerned about losing on Penn's home court. So what's the issue? He doesn't want to play at the Palestra because he doesn't have to. Maybe he doesn't want his players to know there's another arena even cooler than Cameron. Maybe he's got some bad memory of a stale pretzel.
I saw Duke play St. Joe's in a jam-packed fire-code breaking Palestra in the Danny Ferry days. If he was willing to play the Hawks in the Palestra he should play the Quakers in the Palestra. If not, the heck with him.
PS Penn 94: The Colorado game was supposed to be a home-and-home. I believe the Buffaloes may actually return this season.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4361
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Duke 07-04-05 03:44 PM - Post#8588
In response to TomPittsburgh
Tom - my guess is it does help recruiting. Playing in Cameron is a once in a lifetime experience for these kids. We may have trouble keeping it competitive, but - i think this is clearly one of those trips the kids will remember for a lifetime. My guess is that if the team voted on whether or not to have a return game the following year, they'd put Duke back on the schedule whether or not the game is in the Palestra.
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munchkininvasion
newbie
Posts: 9
Reg: 12-10-04
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Re: Duke 07-05-05 02:43 PM - Post#8589
In response to AsiaSunset
for what it's worth, i believe duke returns the temple trip this coming season, and the game will be played at wachovia (early january 2006, i believe). now while the history of the apollo vs. the palestra isn't even comparable, temple is playing duke in philly. wish penn could say that.
P.S.: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated. -Mitch Hedberg |
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