Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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03-14-20 03:56 PM - Post#304605
Can anybody state with accuracy the actual status of Engles and Forrest? Has Engles actually been extended? And is there any truth to the rumor that Forrest is transferring?
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cc66
Postdoc
Posts: 2204
Reg: 10-09-09
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Re: Engles and Forrest
03-14-20 04:38 PM - Post#304606
In response to Chet Forte
I heard a rumor that Engles was given another three years, but where did you hear this about Forrest?
He sat with his parents in the stands just behind me 14 months ago and seemed very enthusiastic about Engles and Columbia. If he's transferring now, it's a very bad sign.
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welcometothejungle
Masters Student
Posts: 788
Age: 27
Reg: 07-31-19
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Engles and Forrest
03-14-20 05:15 PM - Post#304607
In response to cc66
https://twitter.com/VerbalCommits/status/ 123848437...
Verbal Commits reported yesterday that Forrest entered the transfer portal. No source given, but they're typically pretty accurate on transfers
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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03-14-20 05:55 PM - Post#304608
In response to welcometothejungle
Are the two developments related? Every school in the Ivies recruited Forrest. If his decision to transfer is a result of an extension for Engles then we have a profound miscalculation. Even Dr. V will have a tough time spinning this one.
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Columbia 37P6
Postdoc
Posts: 2180
Reg: 02-14-06
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Engles and Forrest
03-14-20 10:21 PM - Post#304614
In response to Chet Forte
Chet, I would suggest that the term "profound miscalculation" applies better to Pilling's decision to hire Engles four years ago. Obviously, at that time, the Athletic Director was entitled to expect much better results than the 35-77 record that he has received subsequently from his newly hired coach. With 20-20 hindsight, that was clearly a "profound miscalculation." What is not a "profound miscalculation" is the Athletic Director's apparent decision to extend Engles' employment for another three years without anticipating that a key player would transfer. Such administrative action can be described in many ways, some nice, and some not as nice, but surely not as a "profound miscalculation."
Edited by Columbia 37P6 on 03-14-20 10:22 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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PeteD
Masters Student
Posts: 557
Loc: California
Reg: 03-13-07
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03-15-20 03:31 AM - Post#304619
In response to Columbia 37P6
If true, this is hugely disappointing because a Stefanni/Forrest backcourt would really have been exciting to see.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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03-15-20 06:38 AM - Post#304621
In response to PeteD
Apparently it is true that Forrest is gone. And no official word from Pilling on whether Engles has been retained.
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Pantone291
Freshman
Posts: 32
Reg: 04-04-19
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03-15-20 08:38 AM - Post#304623
In response to Chet Forte
Could the opposite be the case? Could it be that Forrest knows that Engles will not be given an extension and he is hedging his position in the event that he is not happy with whoever is selected to replace Engles? Can a player withdraw from the portal? If Forrest ends up happy with whoever is selected to replace Engles he withdraws from the portal and stays at Columbia.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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 03-15-20 10:30 AM - Post#304630
In response to Pantone291
Didn’t Schiller publicly endorse Engles at the dedication of the court at the end of the season? I wasn’t there in person but if that is true and Schiller is in the pro-Engles camp then it would be hard for Pilling to fire him.
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Columbia 37P6
Postdoc
Posts: 2180
Reg: 02-14-06
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03-15-20 12:27 PM - Post#304639
In response to Chet Forte
Schiller's legendary coach at Columbia, the great Jack Rohan, certainly would not be in the so-called "pro-Engles camp." Jack was a brilliant basketball coach and basketball mind who was idolized by everyone who ever met him or knew him personally. Jack would have been totally disgusted by what has happened to Columbia Basketball under Engles' watch the past four years. If Jack were alive today, he would be embarrassed if he knew that any of his former players supported Engles.
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Sagatius
Freshman
Posts: 27
Age: 76
Reg: 11-17-15
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03-15-20 01:59 PM - Post#304645
In response to Columbia 37P6
If Engels was winning 80% of his games, the repeated loss of key players would be an issue. Obviously, for several years now, many or most of Columbia’s most talented recruits have decided to bale and go elsewhere. This is a direct reflection on the coach and the entire coaching staff. It is not the educational/athletic experience we promise. The issue must be seriously investigated, and appropriate action taken.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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03-15-20 02:16 PM - Post#304650
In response to Sagatius
The silence from the administration is deafening.
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internetter
Postdoc
Posts: 3400
Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-15-20 07:16 PM - Post#304658
In response to Chet Forte
While he showed early promise, Forrest wasn't too productive after gaining experience in Ivy ball.
His last 4 games:
1 for 6 vs H (home)
2 for 8 vs D
2 for 8 at Pr
4 for 12 at Pn
If he does leave, however, it will be a loss.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Engles and Forrest
03-16-20 08:07 AM - Post#304675
In response to Chet Forte
I’m pretty sure Engles has been extended for a few years, yes.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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03-16-20 09:11 AM - Post#304683
In response to mrjames
I think that it didn’t help when Bolster started getting minutes at the expense of Forrest. When you have an obvious talent who goes into a slump you stay with him. This is the same pattern that we saw with Faulds and Hanson.
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westcoast
Senior
Posts: 302
Reg: 03-08-16
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04-01-20 10:39 AM - Post#305451
In response to Chet Forte
Reports say that Forrest has committed to St. Joseph's.
https://twitter.com/coreyevans_10/status/ 124535855...
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2139
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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04-01-20 10:42 AM - Post#305452
In response to westcoast
So Penn will still have the opportunity to make his life difficult for a few more years.
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welcometothejungle
Masters Student
Posts: 788
Age: 27
Reg: 07-31-19
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04-01-20 11:36 AM - Post#305464
In response to weinhauers_ghost
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/6318 8852/co...
Forrest posted this note along with his tweet announcing his commitment to St. Joe's
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32835
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-01-20 11:50 AM - Post#305468
In response to welcometothejungle
It sure is unorthodox.
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cc66
Postdoc
Posts: 2204
Reg: 10-09-09
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04-01-20 02:35 PM - Post#305483
In response to palestra38
It's more than unorthodox, it's truly weird. Not the transfer to St. Joe's in itself, though that is a bit strange, but rather the accompanying note that suggests Columbia did not provide Forrest with enough of a life in basketball. It still mystifies me--is this really just the loss of PT to Bolster, and more generally, what happened between Forrest and Engles that would trigger his departure from the program?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32835
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-01-20 02:37 PM - Post#305484
In response to cc66
If he said he wanted to return home, I get it. But to suggest he has more of a path to a life in basketball? Granted, Joe's has an energetic new coach, but it certainly is no sure path to a pro career, even if he had the ability.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2974
Reg: 03-02-08
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04-01-20 03:04 PM - Post#305486
In response to palestra38
When a player with obvious talent decides to leave a program it usually relates to playing time. Since we were going nowhere this year, it strikes me as odd that Forrest was going to give up minutes to Bolster. Maybe Engles has given Pilling and Schiller an explanation for this seemingly inscrutable personnel decision, but if it were my decision I would have encouraged Forrest and stayed with him.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-01-20 03:20 PM - Post#305488
In response to palestra38
I read it as talking about commitment to basketball. My guess is that St. Joe’s has more of a program where everything is about basketball. No idea what the facilities, etc., are like at Columbia, but I would guess that shows it too.
As far as playing in the pros, etc., being a star at Columbia may actually be a better path than being more of a role player at St. Joe’s. It’s not like Mike Smith wasn’t going to have the chance to play professionally if he just played all 4 seasons at Columbia. However, the processes around the program are likely better, and for some guys that is preferable.
To that end, I like to get to the Palestra early and watch early warmups, etc. Obviously, it was the last game of a lost season for Columbia, and a weird time overall with everything going on in the world health-wise. However, I will say that Columbia appeared from afar to be the least organized of the Ivy teams this year, and had the least “team†concept. Smith could have been sick, getting treatment, or have his own routine, but he didn’t participate with the team at all until the final shootaround right before the tip. Forrest just sat on the Penn bench and watched for quite a while. Just a very different vibe from the Penn process, which involves everyone.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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04-01-20 04:06 PM - Post#305490
In response to palestra38
If he said he wanted to return home, I get it. But to suggest he has more of a path to a life in basketball? Granted, Joe's has an energetic new coach, but it certainly is no sure path to a pro career, even if he had the ability.
Lange is energetic but he can't coach.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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04-01-20 04:42 PM - Post#305494
In response to Chet Forte
I think that it didn’t help when Bolster started getting minutes at the expense of Forrest. When you have an obvious talent who goes into a slump you stay with him. This is the same pattern that we saw with Faulds and Hanson.
I see that Forrest averaged over 28 mpg for the 11 games after he lost his starting spot, and over 29 mpg for the last three games. Those are more minutes than he averaged as a starter. So could minutes really have been a factor in his decision, especially when his playing time was likely to rise next year.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-01-20 07:39 PM - Post#305501
In response to Chet Forte
For the record, I don’t think Bolster ever took minutes away from Forrest. Forrest averaged about 25 minutes per game this year. In the games where Bolster was in the rotation, Forrest averaged . . . 25 minutes per game.
In regard to when Forrest was starting, he was playing instead of Nweke in a small lineup. Nweke returned to the lineup and took Forrest’s spot.
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PeteD
Masters Student
Posts: 557
Loc: California
Reg: 03-13-07
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04-06-20 06:10 AM - Post#305873
In response to SomeGuy
Meisner, Faulds, Hanson and now Forrest? Wtf is going on?
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Columbia 37P6
Postdoc
Posts: 2180
Reg: 02-14-06
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04-06-20 10:02 PM - Post#305917
In response to PeteD
"Wtf is going on" appears to be "administrative incompetence" as there is no valid basis for Columbia retaining a coach with one of the worst won-loss records in college basketball history. What other reason can there be?
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3058
Reg: 10-20-14
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06-12-20 09:25 AM - Post#308935
In response to Columbia 37P6
https://www.sjuhawknews.com/st-joes-mens-basketba l...
- Forrest acknowledged that the decision to transfer from Columbia, an Ivy League university, to St. Joe’s is “unorthodox.†The 6-foot 5-inch guard from Lower Merion notes that while education remains a top priority, his primary focus was to join a program that would allow him to reach his full potential as a basketball player.
“Education is very important to me, and St. Joe’s still provides that aspect,†Forrest said. “But being at a school that has the tools to get me to the next level became very apparent.†-
- After Forrest’s freshman year at Columbia, despite being a bright spot on the Lions’ basketball team, they placed last in the Ivy League. Forrest then experienced a “paradigm shift†and realized that his talent and work ethic was foundational for a professional career.
“I think it happened this year while going through a Division I basketball season, and seeing where I fit in and how I can play,†Forrest said. “When I transferred, I knew it was going to be a basketball decision and I wanted to go to the best fit for me to get to play professionally.†-
- Forrest will go from playing in the Ivy League, considered a low-major conference, to the Atlantic 10, a mid-major conference. With that jump in caliber comes more skilled and athletic competition. Matt Gifford, creator of 247Sports blog Hawk Hill Hardwood, likens Forrest’s transition with that of senior Ryan Daly, another 6-foot 5-inch guard who came to St. Joe’s after playing for the University of Delaware in the Colonial Athletic Association, another low-major conference.
“Guys are an inch or two taller at each position, which doesn’t seem like a lot, but can make a big difference,â€Gifford said.
Gifford said that Forrest’s athleticism and size will enable him to lessen the learning curve.
“[Forrest] is really big for his position, and he’s really athletic,†Gifford said. “He has the size and skillset to make the adjustment easier.â€
Additionally, Gifford believes that Forrest’s redshirt year will aid his development immensely. -
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32835
Reg: 11-21-04
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06-12-20 09:39 AM - Post#308938
In response to rbg
I take some exception to the Ivies being "low major" as compared with the A-10. Indeed the A-10 was 7 spots ahead of the Ivies in Conference RPI, but was incredibly skewed with Dayton having a great year at the top and the bottom teams being worse than just about anyone in the Ivies (with St Joe's finishing last).
http://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2020/confe re...
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Pantone291
Freshman
Posts: 32
Reg: 04-04-19
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11-27-20 03:52 PM - Post#317372
In response to palestra38
At the half, Forrest has 12 points off the bench for St. Joe's against Kansas
I wasn't aware he was eligible to play this year
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Columbia 37P6
Postdoc
Posts: 2180
Reg: 02-14-06
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11-27-20 05:12 PM - Post#317373
In response to Pantone291
I don't get it either--how is eligible this season? Incidentally, Mike Smith started at point guard and played very well in his first game at Michigan
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welcometothejungle
Masters Student
Posts: 788
Age: 27
Reg: 07-31-19
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Engles and Forrest
11-27-20 07:42 PM - Post#317375
In response to Columbia 37P6
https://twitter.com/jmverlin/status/13320 551791522...
Forrest got an eligibility waiver to be immediately eligible at St. Joe's. With the pandemic, the NCAA has been pretty generous with transfer eligibility waivers. Generally seems like if the player's former school doesn't try to block the player from receiving eligibility this year, they are getting the waiver
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Engles and Forrest
12-19-20 07:42 PM - Post#318135
In response to welcometothejungle
I don’t post over there anymore, but someone should tell the folks on the Voy boards that Engles was extended a couple years back and wouldn’t be terribly easy to get rid of.
That being said, the moment that Columbia decides to put big resources behind the program, with the right coach, it could be a monster.
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1172
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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Re: Engles and Forrest
12-22-20 11:51 AM - Post#318173
In response to mrjames
...the moment that Columbia decides to put big resources behind the program, with the right coach, it could be a monster.
Couldn't that be said of a lot of programs?
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welcometothejungle
Masters Student
Posts: 788
Age: 27
Reg: 07-31-19
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Engles and Forrest
12-22-20 12:16 PM - Post#318174
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
https://twitter.com/AC__Hoops/status/1341 164973872...
Unrelated to the Engles discussion, but Jack Forrest had a huge poster dunk on Tennessee's Yves Pons, the reigning SEC Defensive Player of the Year last night. He got a technical for taunting after the dunk, but as the announcers said "he earned it"
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Dr. V
PhD Student
Posts: 1539
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-22-20 01:10 PM - Post#318175
In response to welcometothejungle
St. Joe's got massacred 102-66 or something like that.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Engles and Forrest
12-22-20 05:11 PM - Post#318183
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Generally yes. But Columbia’s location in a basketball crazed city that doesn’t really have a lot of permanent D-I competition (St. John’s... and?) provides it with a unique opportunity to be relevant in a huge marketplace. If it built a cool building to visit and brought in a coach that could recruit it, the upside on attention it could get is much larger than, say, Dartmouth in Hanover.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2139
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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Re: Engles and Forrest
12-22-20 06:20 PM - Post#318185
In response to mrjames
The campus extension west of Broadway and north of 125th would have been a great location for such a facility.
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Pantone291
Freshman
Posts: 32
Reg: 04-04-19
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12-23-20 09:09 AM - Post#318197
In response to weinhauers_ghost
And I'm sure the men's and women's swim programs would significantly benefit from a modern, multi-use, sports complex on the Manhattanville campus.
Just as Levien's shortcomings affects recruiting for basketball, the dated Uris Natatorium has to have the same affect on the swim programs.
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Pantone291
Freshman
Posts: 32
Reg: 04-04-19
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01-09-21 08:08 PM - Post#318921
In response to Pantone291
Forrest having a nice game against U Albany, leading scorer for SJU with 11 points at the half.
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