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Username Post: Macro Recruiting Question        (Topic#24709)
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
09-28-20 10:06 AM - Post#314199    
    In response to mrjames

  • mrjames Said:
When I say ignorant, I mean the traditional definition of the word - lacking knowledge or information about a subject.

I have more information than you, which makes me more knowledgeable. I do not have complete information, nor do I say as much. But I have more info that makes me able to break news on this site, and through that info I can share a more informed perspective on the league. And my more informed perspective is that I don’t think there’s a staff in this league that wouldn’t trade places with Penn. You can believe me or not, but hopefully you’re not disputing that I’m basing that take on a lot more information than you have.



Not to beat a dead horse but this struck me as interesting. MrJ, do you know how many of the (then) current IL head coaches applied for the Penn job when it was open in 2015? Did Amaker apply?


 
OldBig5 
Masters Student
Posts: 639

Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
09-28-20 02:23 PM - Post#314212    
    In response to PennFan10

I would think if you asked any high school kids to name Ivy League schools, Harvard and Yale would get mentioned the most. Then Princeton. Then everyone else including the school that some confuse with Penn State.

 
caughtinasnare 
Senior
Posts: 362

Age: 35
Reg: 02-21-09
09-28-20 11:35 PM - Post#314226    
    In response to OldBig5

I didn't see any of the other Ivies being the question for a Daily Double on Jeopardy tonight... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 
OldBig5 
Masters Student
Posts: 639

Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
09-29-20 06:57 PM - Post#314252    
    In response to caughtinasnare

  • caughtinasnare Said:
I didn't see any of the other Ivies being the question for a Daily Double on Jeopardy tonight... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I didn't watch Jeopardy. What was the answer (and the question)?

 
westcoast 
Senior
Posts: 302

Reg: 03-08-16
09-29-20 07:33 PM - Post#314253    
    In response to OldBig5

Category: Colleges and Universities

$600 Clue (and the Daily Double)
Students on this school's campus may run into Ben Franklin relaxing on a bench reading a newspaper.

 
caughtinasnare 
Senior
Posts: 362

Age: 35
Reg: 02-21-09
09-29-20 09:13 PM - Post#314255    
    In response to westcoast

With a lovely picture, to boot!

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 12480

Reg: 12-07-04
09-30-20 01:08 PM - Post#314284    
    In response to caughtinasnare

Did the contestant get it right?

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
09-30-20 01:45 PM - Post#314292    
    In response to OldBig5

That may be true, but 15 years ago if you asked a high academics high school basketball player which Ivy to go to to play basketball, they would have said Penn. 20 years ago, Penn or Princeton.

While I think that much of that was Harvard not caring about basketball enough to use their brand advantage, it does show that it is certainly possible for Penn to overcome the brand advantage under the right circumstances. I don’t think it is nearly as simple as mrjames makes it sound, but it can be done.

A player choosing Penn will play in front of bigger home crowds than anybody else in the Ivy, gets the Big Five and a game against Villanova every year, has a more vocal (though aging) alumni base that travels for games, and plays in the best facility in the league. In a lot of ways, playing at Penn is going to be the closest you can come to high major basketball in our league.

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3615
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
Macro Recruiting Question
09-30-20 03:46 PM - Post#314295    
    In response to SomeGuy

Exactly SG, exactly. Penn certainly has a lot positives to "sell" to a recruit (and the key thing to remember here is that recruiting is about "selling" the school).

I would also guess that Penn likely has the best/most state of the art training facilities in general compared to rest of league, which is a place that the players spend a lot of time.

https://www.facilities.upenn.edu/maps/locations/we...

 
Penndemonium 
PhD Student
Posts: 1878

Reg: 11-29-04
Macro Recruiting Question
09-30-20 04:00 PM - Post#314296    
    In response to SomeGuy

Also, while I won't say that Penn has the same academic reputation as HYP, I think you are all living in the past when there was a more meaningful gap. The school made giant strides under Judith Rodin and somewhat under Gutmann. This current generation views Penn as elite, as they should. It is not an Ivy safety school and it is not the school ranked in the 30's as it was in the 90's. It is perennially top 10. Several programs such as M&T are viewed as the most exclusive programs in the country. I heard some HS kids remarking recently how it is viewed as more selective and elite than HYP, Stanford, MIT, and CalTech.

A bunch of us old timers need to re-frame our old views, as times have changed. Reputations that were locked in stone for generations are changing. USC is becoming a very highly sought after academic school (Varsity Blues as evidence), whereas we never thought that in the past generations. Penn is right there in the mix with HYP for today's kids - or at least with a gap that's small enough not to matter as much as how the school fits for what they want to study. Penn's basketball merits would seem more than enough to tip the scales for a basketball student-athlete. The main tipping point that you hear about from recruits again and again is the relationship they are able to build with coaches and the team during recruiting and the vision they create for the students' future at the school and beyond.

I am not well versed enough in the nuance of the athletic recruiting. I did get the sense that Gutmann was not quite as supportive of athletics in her early days from speaking with a Penn professor or two. I have no idea if that is the case today. I don't think she was intentionally unsupportive. She just didn't see the point of all of it. My wife agrees with that viewpoint. I... spend time on a Penn Basketball forum.








Edited by Penndemonium on 09-30-20 04:01 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 12480

Reg: 12-07-04
09-30-20 04:38 PM - Post#314298    
    In response to Penndemonium

Getting that first kid to commit is often really important for the rest of the recruiting year. I remember the dominoes falling quickly for Jelani, Jarrod and Eddie so using recruits to help land other recruits matters.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Macro Recruiting Question
09-30-20 04:52 PM - Post#314301    
    In response to Penndemonium

I don't want to get deep into this again, but while you are correct that Penn is light years more competitive to get into than it was 30 or more years ago, the brand still doesn't get into the same neighborhood as Harvard to anyone who isn't well versed in the US News rankings. Otherwise said, everyone knows Harvard. I'll just leave it at that.

 
Quaker75 
Freshman
Posts: 37

Age: 59
Reg: 12-29-13
09-30-20 08:18 PM - Post#314306    
    In response to palestra38

Go Quakers

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
09-30-20 08:49 PM - Post#314307    
    In response to Quaker75

Absolutely

 
caughtinasnare 
Senior
Posts: 362

Age: 35
Reg: 02-21-09
10-01-20 12:10 AM - Post#314318    
    In response to Quakers03

Indeed he did!

 
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