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Username Post: Ivy Season        (Topic#24711)
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
10-29-20 09:12 PM - Post#315679    
    In response to mrjames

How do you interpret all the kids skipping the semester (and maybe the year) at Yale? We know Atkinson stayed in school, but seemingly others have not. Gabbidon in particular sticks out as a kid who could play a season at a higher level if he wanted to, but seems to have instead decided to take time off so he can play his last year at Yale. Two of their strong incoming freshman appear to have decided to wait a year to start as well. We know it is going on at Yale, but is it going on elsewhere? If not, what does ithat mean? Would all of these players ultimately go the grad transfer route, whenever that time comes? Will the league/schools even allow them to stay for a fifth year to play their fourth year of basketball?

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
11-01-20 09:25 PM - Post#315804    
    In response to ivyrules

If the Power 5 conferences and a number of good mid-major conferences go forward with playing, it would seem logical that the better IL players will either transfer this year or finish school if the player is a senior and play as a grad transfer.

On the face of it, IL may experience a significant loss of talent and the league could experience some minor impact on recruiting depending on what other conferences decide upon.

Hope that IL decision makers think through their ultimate decision logically which is a question mark based on some of their decisions over the past several years.



 
rbg 
Postdoc
Posts: 3044

Reg: 10-20-14
11-09-20 01:53 PM - Post#316283    
    In response to mrjames

Some recent updates, with Yale's decision to max out at Phase 1 for the rest of the semester being the most relevant to sports.

Brown

10/29/20
Brown plans to welcome students from each class year back in Spring 2021

https://www.browndailyherald.com/2020/10/29/brown-...

- The University plans to offer an in-person residential experience for students from each undergraduate class for the spring semester, though space constraints may limit how many students can return. -

- All first-years, who will officially matriculate in January, will have the option to live on campus in University residence halls. -

- Currently enrolled students will have the option to maintain their fall location of study. But many of those living on campus may be asked to relocate to a different residence hall or University-leased space in the spring. -

- All juniors and seniors will have the option to live off-campus in the Providence area without requiring permission.

First-years and sophomores are not eligible for off-campus permission, and may not live off-campus in the Providence area, Paxson wrote.

Paxson noted that it may not be possible to accommodate all students who wish to return to Providence, given the limited number of single-occupancy rooms available on campus as well as the number of available apartments in close proximity to Brown. -

- If more students request to live on campus than space permits, the University will use a lottery, with juniors who are currently studying remotely receiving preference, followed by sophomores studying remotely. Seniors, juniors and sophomores who are currently taking a personal leave, respectively, will receive preference after juniors and sophomores with remote status. -

11/8/20
Dean Jha on increasing COVID-19 cases: ‘We have to watch this carefully’

https://www.browndailyherald.com/2020/11/08/dean-j...

- Last week we spoke about University cases rising. This week, again, cases continue to rise — in one day there were seven positive cases — and we mentioned that correlated with the rise in cases in Rhode Island. Could you talk about the increase in cases?

If I look at results by week, if we go back five weeks ago we had two cases during the week, then we had two cases, then we had nine then we had 10, and this week is not over, and we have 12 already. So the trend is very clear but the good news is it’s still very, very low numbers.

There are three points I would make. One is it’s not surprising — it’s exactly what we expected because we don’t live in a bubble and as much as we can try to have people spend time in pods and as much as we can try to protect people who are on campus, the truth is we live in a community, and when infection rates rise in the community, we’re going to see more cases here.

The second thing is the trend is the thing to pay attention to, and the trend is going up. We have to look at where those cases are coming from. A lot of them are in faculty and staff, which also makes sense because faculty and staff are much less likely to live on campus — they’re much more integrated into the community. Try to think about where those cases are happening and do good contact tracing.

Third is we have to watch this carefully. We have about three weeks before Thanksgiving, and at this point I think if we can keep things steady, I think we can make it all the way to Thanksgiving without large outbreaks. The thing about this virus is it can shift very suddenly, so you could be cooking along eight, 10 cases and then boom — you get a spike. And it really takes one event, one gathering where a bunch of students get together on some Friday evening and people break their pod and get together, and one of those could just shut the whole campus down. So we have to, I think, remain very vigilant really just for the next three weeks; it’s not forever. If we can get through Thanksgiving then we can decide what’s going to happen afterward, but I think that’s always been the critical goal for this semester. -

Dartmouth

11/9/20
Winter term start date pushed back, testing upped to twice per week

https://www.thedartmouth.com/article/2020/11/winte ...

- Winter term’s start date was pushed from Jan. 4 to Jan. 7 due to the lengthened move-in process for students living on and off campus. In addition to requiring increased testing, the College is also grappling with how to make necessary changes to dining seating adjustments and outdoor activities in order to accommodate the weather. -

- Adams said that although she believes pre-arrival testing may show higher numbers than the fall due to “rising [COVID-19] rates across the country,” she thinks that winter term “is going to look very similar” to fall. Student Affairs is still working out the exact details of winter term operations, she said. -

Penn

11/4/20
Penn reports 107 new COVID-19 cases from last week — the highest weekly case count yet

https://www.thedp.com/article/2020/11/covid -testin...

- For just the second time this semester, the positivity rate climbed above 2%, reported at 2.2%. Out of the 107 new cases, 90 were undergraduate students with only 17 new cases reported among graduate students, faculty, staff, and other Penn affiliates. Undergraduate students also represented the highest positivity rate at 3.3% last week in comparison to the other communities. -

Yale

11/6/20
Students in three colleges to quarantine, University moves to orange alert level amid 20-person COVID cluster

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/11/06/stude nts...

- Students living in Saybrook, Davenport and Grace Hopper residential colleges have been asked to quarantine in their suites until Thursday morning in response to a 20-person cluster of COVID-19 cases connected to the three colleges.

The rise in cases triggered a switch from a yellow to orange COVID-19 alert level, bringing additional restrictions to campus included targeted quarantines, additional travel restrictions and increased remote instruction. Yale originally reverted to yellow on Oct. 15 — after just two weeks at green — in response to an outbreak of 18 cases on the men’s hockey team.

The cluster appears as cases are steadily rising at the University, in New Haven and in Connecticut as a whole. Yale recorded a record 21 cases on Oct. 28 — just 13 days after the men’s hockey outbreak first emerged. Gov. Ned Lamont on Thursday moved the Elm City to a red alert status and asked all Connecticut residents to limit non-essential trips during the hours 10 p.m. to 5 a.m. -

- As of Nov. 6, Yale is reporting a total of 151 COVID-19 cases since Aug. 1, an increase of 42 over the last week. -

11/8/20
Varsity teams will not move past Phase I for rest of semester

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/11/08/varsi ty-...

- Varsity athletics will not move past Phase I for the rest of the semester, University Provost Scott Strobel and Yale’s COVID-19 Coordinator Stephanie Spangler announced in an email to students, faculty and staff on Friday morning.

The announcement, one of several updated University guidelines as viral spread intensifies in New Haven and Connecticut and after Governor Ned Lamont announced new state restrictions, came just a handful of hours before another change to Yale’s COVID-19 status — late Friday afternoon, Yale shifted to an orange alert level, which pushed all varsity athletic training back to Phase 0 through Sunday.

“Based upon our own experience and in alignment with the announcement of the Governor, we write to reinforce and modify our health and safety measures,” Strobel and Spangler wrote Friday morning. “Our goal is to complete the fall semester safely while preserving the academic mission of the university.” -

 
Go Green 
PhD Student
Posts: 1124

Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
11-10-20 08:45 AM - Post#316389    
    In response to rbg


Looks like the Patriot League is giving it a go for 2021.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32687

Reg: 11-21-04
11-10-20 10:00 AM - Post#316397    
    In response to Go Green

We're going to be all alone if we do not play. And to be a broken record, no one would be at risk nor miss any virtual classes if we did a bubble.

 
rbg 
Postdoc
Posts: 3044

Reg: 10-20-14
Ivy Season
11-10-20 12:32 PM - Post#316429    
    In response to palestra38

Cornell planned on opening up to all its students in the fall semester and caught a lot of grief from people in Ithaca and around the country (I count myself in that group). They did have a bump in the road at the beginning of the semester, but put in additional plans to quickly stop the increase in cases.

With 2 weeks to go before sending students home for the remainder of the fall semester, the school's results have thankfully been much better than anticipated.

If things had been worse, Martha Pollack and her staff would have taken a lot of grief and possibly had trouble keeping their jobs. With the results as good as they've been, they rightly get to take a bow.

The eight presidents will now have to make a similar decision on basketball. Not playing is certainly the safest decision and with increasing cases across the country would be the most prudent. If, however, they don't want to be the only conference not to schedule a season and want to do it in the safest way possible, a bubble at Cornell would seem to be the best decision.

(One extra wrinkle - Even if they agree that a bubble could be done, there is the tricky issue that they may not want to give preference to basketball over the other winter sports)

For those interested, below is a link to Monday's hour long webinar from most of Cornell's leadership behind the data, testing and policy issues that went into the fall semester.

https://www.ecornell.com/keynotes/view/K110920 a/

Edited by rbg on 11-10-20 12:32 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32687

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Ivy Season
11-10-20 12:57 PM - Post#316437    
    In response to rbg

I put zero stock in the "fairness" argument with respect to other sports. They are free to try and work out their own bubble, but Ivy basketball is the only sports which expenses would likely be covered by participation in the NCAA tournament.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Ivy Season
11-10-20 03:39 PM - Post#316450    
    In response to palestra38

6 teams at Cornell, 15 game season, play everyone 3 times (don’t need to even out home and away at a neutral site).

Could go back to no tourney for a year, but my thought would be to go the other way and let everyone in (give top 2 a bye). True March Madness, where everyone has to be knocked out in an elimination game.

Just tossing out thoughts on how it can work — I will not be critical of what is decided. But I am hoping the kids get to play, at least those who want to.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32687

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Ivy Season
11-10-20 03:50 PM - Post#316455    
    In response to SomeGuy

Question is whether Princeton would be in if H-Y are not and if they are and the thing gets discussed seriously, whether the pressure from the players on Harvard and Amaker would cause Harvard to change its mind. Harvard is (sorry guys) ridiculously hypocritical if it says that it must treat its basketball team like all other students and other athletes when it has invested millions more in that team than any other team and admits its players on different standards than other students. A decision not to play this year, when a bubble is easily possible is a betrayal and total hypocrisy.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Ivy Season
11-10-20 04:17 PM - Post#316463    
    In response to palestra38

Under the circumstances, I’m not comfortable saying that anyone is being hypocritical or flat out wrong by not playing. They are trying to do what is best for the community. I say let the schools play who think they can do it safely within their educational framework, and let the schools sit who think they cannot.

And since you brought up Amaker, I find it hard to believe that he personally is strongly in the “don’t play” camp. I think players tend to want to play, and coaches tend to want to coach. As an employee he may be defending Harvard’s viewpoint, including to his players, but I would guess that personally he wants to play. I would think that is a pretty universal perspective among the players and coaches.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Ivy Season
11-10-20 04:19 PM - Post#316464    
    In response to palestra38

Harvard truthers back at it!!!

Princeton's a bit of a black box, though I'd be surprised if they cut against the HY grain.

The issue is that the talks are happening right now, which, from a data perspective, is not great timing. The stops and starts at both Ivy and non-Ivy programs aren't helping either.

There are certainly pockets of optimism out there, but gravity is on the side of don't play.

It would be irresponsible to judge any particular team for the decisions they feel it necessary to make in this pandemic, as it is irresponsible to assume that a bubble could work just because it seems like it could work. There's a lot more to it than just time and place.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32687

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Ivy Season
11-10-20 04:24 PM - Post#316467    
    In response to mrjames

I agree with most of what you said (especially that Princeton is loathe to ally itself with anyone but H and Y). But there is no rocket science involved in creating a bubble---basketball and hockey did it without more than one or two mistakes (and both were in cities, unlike Ithaca). This could be done by the bright minds of the Ivies.

 
Go Green 
PhD Student
Posts: 1124

Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
11-10-20 04:25 PM - Post#316468    
    In response to mrjames


Not that their opinion matters, but...

If Harvard and Yale can't play, why would Brown be able to? Are things really that much better in Providence?

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32687

Reg: 11-21-04
11-10-20 04:26 PM - Post#316470    
    In response to Go Green

In a bubble? That's the only way we're going to play.

 
section110 
Masters Student
Posts: 847

Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
11-10-20 04:32 PM - Post#316473    
    In response to Go Green

It is not that Harvard & Yale cannot play. It is that their administrations have, or will choose not to play.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Ivy Season
11-10-20 05:51 PM - Post#316494    
    In response to palestra38

Bubbles are more complicated than you're giving them credit for...

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
Ivy Season
11-10-20 06:25 PM - Post#316497    
    In response to section110

Deja vu.
The second week of March we were bemoaning the league's decision to cancel the Tournament. There were claims of hypocracy (coach Donahue) until the ECAC shut down hockey just a few days later. Harvard refused to participate or host, and so many of us pushed for the remaining schools to find an arena and hold the tournament without fans. I signed Byce Aiken's petition. The league was right, we were wrong, and the NCAA didn't take long to shut down conference tournaments and then March Madness.

We just set a record for hospitalizations in this country today. Deaths will increase. In some areas ICU's are already full. Schools will all send their students home before Thanksgiving, hoping to get the back in February. The focus will be students spreading COVID to their families and communities.

I remember when Dr. Fauci thought we'd hit 100,000 new cases a day. I'm wondering about 200,000.

If Biden was President, he'd be smart to consider a shutdown between Thanksgiving and the New Year. Maybe the new real task force will provide advice that honest governors can follow. Advice that likely won't include athletic.

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 11-10-20 06:27 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32687

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Ivy Season
11-10-20 07:10 PM - Post#316501    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Pretty condescending. The situation now is not what it was in March, when we didn't know what it was or what to do. But now we know how to prevent it, and playing in a bubble gives our athletes a chance to play a season they will not be able to re-create later. Look at what already has happened to Yale. I'm all for public health, but I'm also concerned about the players and their futures.

You should be too.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Ivy Season
11-10-20 07:47 PM - Post#316502    
    In response to palestra38

If that was meant for me, that’s fair, I guess. I just can’t really get into this topic any more specifically than that.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32687

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Ivy Season
11-10-20 08:10 PM - Post#316503    
    In response to mrjames

No, it wasn't. I don't disagree with anything you said. I'm sure it's not simple putting together a bubble, but it's not rocket science, either. I was responding to your cohort.

 
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