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Username Post: Ivy Season        (Topic#24711)
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-12-20 06:32 PM - Post#316614    
    In response to Mike Porter

I’ll take the over on 99.999999%.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-12-20 06:37 PM - Post#316616    
    In response to mrjames

Also, 18 is now 20 as two more games have been cancelled in the four hours since I posted about FBS game cancellations over the past two weeks.

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3615
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
Ivy Season
11-12-20 06:50 PM - Post#316618    
    In response to mrjames

Yep, totally makes sense Mike, I was being kind with the 99.999999%. It would be a big disappointment as a fan obviously, BUT considering circumstances right now I can't think of a credible argument against a decision to cancel the season.

I feel bad for the kids (especially Jelani), but this is bigger than Ivy Basketball.

 
20Penn14 
Senior
Posts: 364

Reg: 02-26-12
Re: Ivy Season
11-12-20 07:13 PM - Post#316624    
    In response to Mike Porter

https://twitter.com/DanaONeilWriter/statu s/1327025...

Winter sports cancelled

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3615
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
11-12-20 07:13 PM - Post#316625    
    In response to Mike Porter

::Insert whistling sound of a bomb falling before explosion sound::

In other words, there goes the season:

Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein

Sources: The Ivy League has cancelled winter sports.

 
Stuart Suss 
PhD Student
Posts: 1439

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
11-12-20 08:17 PM - Post#316627    
    In response to Mike Porter

Official Ivy League statement

Will someone please explain what this portion of the statement means?

<<Winter and fall sport student-athletes will not lose a season of Ivy League or NCAA eligibility, whether or not they enroll. Students who wish to pursue competition during a fifth-year of undergraduate education at their home institution, if permitted, or as a graduate student elsewhere will need to work with their institutions in accordance with campus policy to determine their options beyond their current anticipated graduation date.>>

Please specifically explain the phrase "as a graduate student elsewhere."

Does "elsewhere" refer to anywhere else, even within the league?
Will someone be able to graduate from Brown, attend law school at Columbia, and be eligible to compete for Columbia?
Is this only a reference to grad transfer eligibility "elsewhere" other than in the Ivy League?



 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-12-20 08:30 PM - Post#316628    
    In response to Stuart Suss

Okay - *that’s* surprising... did not hear that was coming. Very interesting...

 
rbg 
Postdoc
Posts: 3044

Reg: 10-20-14
11-12-20 09:38 PM - Post#316635    
    In response to mrjames

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/ _/id/303...

- "We are heartbroken to be here again," Harris said. "It's based on the current trends of the virus and rates and the impact that has on our campus policies that are going to continue to restrict travel, group gathering sizes, visitors to campus. Athletics is important to all of our schools, to our presidents. All aspects of campuses are being asked to make sacrifices and change the way they operate, and unfortunately that has extended into athletics as well."

Harris said the league's coaches and athletic directors came up with alternative options on how to conduct a season, including eliminating overnight stays and changing the way they handle meals on the road. While those options would have mitigated the risk to a degree, it wasn't enough.

A bubble for the conference was never a legitimate consideration, Harris said. -

- While the Ivy League was the first domino to fall in March, it is unlikely that every conference in the country will follow the league's decision this time around.

"This decision is about what's right and responsible for the Ivy League based on current trends and our campus policies, and our presidents prioritizing health and safety of student-athletes, coaches and the greater campus communities," Harris said. "Others are going to have to make the best decisions for their schools and conferences. It's hard to predict the future. The trends are not good."

Harris said the Ivy League has not had discussions with the NCAA on whether it will still receive an NCAA tournament share or any money from the NCAA tournament. The league has not changed its policies on allowing graduate students to play sports, despite the NCAA granting every winter athlete a free year this season. -

 
Stuart Suss 
PhD Student
Posts: 1439

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
11-12-20 09:45 PM - Post#316636    
    In response to rbg

<<The league has not changed its policies on allowing graduate students to play sports, despite the NCAA granting every winter athlete a free year this season.>>

Those appear to be the words of the author of the article, Jeff Borzello, perhaps premised upon the Ivy policy announced earlier this year.

Those words are not attributed to Robin Harris as of tonight, and there is a need for clarification in light of the ambiguous language in tonight's Ivy news release.

It may well be that the Ivy League will soon clarify its news release and reaffirm its opposition to graduate student eligibility. Nothing in the Jeff Borzello article accomplishes that clarification.




 
rbg 
Postdoc
Posts: 3044

Reg: 10-20-14
11-13-20 09:02 AM - Post#316651    
    In response to Stuart Suss

From Paul Atkinson:

https://twitter.com/paulwall561/status/13 270477366...

Glad the Ivy League could finally come to a decision on the season and appreciate them keeping our health and safety in mind. However, the buildup to the announcement was handled poorly by both the league and our athletic department due to their terrible communication with student-athletes.

 
rbg 
Postdoc
Posts: 3044

Reg: 10-20-14
11-13-20 09:16 AM - Post#316652    
    In response to rbg

Campus articles:

Brown Daily Herald:
https://www.browndailyherald.com/2020/11/12/ivy-le...

Columbia Spectator:
https://www.columbiaspectator.com/sports/2020/11/1...

Cornell Daily Sun:
https://cornellsun.com/2020/11/12/ivy-league -cance...

The Dartmouth:
https://www.thedartmouth.com/article/2020/11/ivy-l ...

The Harvard Crimson:
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/11/13/iv y-...

The Daily Pennsylvanian:
https://www.thedp.com/article/2020/11/ivy-l eague-c...

The Daily Princetonian:
https://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2020/11/...

Yale Daily News:
https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/11/12/ivy-l eag...

 
Stuart Suss 
PhD Student
Posts: 1439

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
Ivy Season
11-13-20 11:14 AM - Post#316658    
    In response to rbg

From the preliminary research and inquiries I have made:

1. There are FAQs that are supposed to be attached to the official Ivy League news release. Those FAQs are not accessible (at least not accessible to me).

2. FAQs personalized to Yale are accessible.

3. Yale is adhering to its 8 semester rule with regard to a 5th year of undergraduate eligibility. ("Because Yale undergraduates must complete their degree within eight terms, you must take either one or two leaves of absence in order to extend your eight terms of enrollment, should you wish to use your missed season of eligibility at Yale.")

4. The Brown Daily Herald story states, "Brown’s rule that only undergraduate students can participate in athletics still stands."

5. Some schools in the league do not have an 8 semester limitation, and would not require a leave of absence in order to qualify for a 5th year of undergraduate eligibility.

6. However, it would seem foolish for any athlete to pay tuition (in whole or in part) for a 5th undergraduate year and then pay tuition for a first graduate year (if that is the athlete's educational goal), when two year's of tuition could be saved (the 5th undergraduate year and the first graduate year) by completing undergraduate studies at the Ivy school within 4 years and obtaining a scholarship for a graduate transfer year at a non-Ivy school.

7. The language in the Ivy news release regarding competition "as a graduate student elsewhere," appears to be nothing more than the Ivy presidents' customary attitude toward athletes that they can accept the decisions or transfer "elsewhere."


I see this decision as one additional piece of evidence of of the hostility of the Ivy presidents toward both athletes and intercollegiate athletics. Donors force the Ivy presidents to feign concern about both.

The Ivy presidents announced their decision regarding winter sports on November 12, based upon the medical circumstances as of that date. The medical circumstances as of November 12 were unpredictable on October 12 and will likely change as of December 12 and as of January 12. I note that final decisions regarding in-person attendance by students have not yet been made.

Putting aside for the moment alternative ideas such as competition in bubbles, all the Ivy presidents need to have said was, "As of November 12, it is imprudent to start winter sports activities. We will reconsider the status of winter sports again on December 12 and, if necessary, on January 12."

Instead, as noted by Paul Atkinson, while leaving the athletes and their coaches in the dark, the presidents made an apparently irrevocable decision which allows them to be done with athletics.



 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Ivy Season
11-13-20 11:26 AM - Post#316659    
    In response to Stuart Suss

I think it's a little unfair to claim that this was even a surprise. Yale came into the academic year trying to get its team to take the year off to save eligibility (and successfully did so with a bunch of its players). Other seniors around the league entered the transfer portal early to get a jump on things. Maybe there's a beef about the communication surrounding how this went from "unlikely" to "officially cancelled," but to pretend like anyone thought there were good odds of this season being played as the summer wore on is disingenuous.

I will miss Ivy hoops this year. My favorite sports moment of every year is the opening weekend of the NCAA Tournament, and the centerpiece of that is when the Ivy rep plays. Not having that for what will end up being a span of three years is really sad. At the same time, the current positivity rate is the highest it's been since April and our case counts are setting uncontrollable daily records. My need for Ivy hoops seems really, really, really small compared to that.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-13-20 11:43 AM - Post#316663    
    In response to Stuart Suss

Apparently, they wanted to provide some visibility and definitiveness so students can plan. Not a bad goal. They must have decided that given the trend in November, that they believe things won't materially change for the better in time for winter sports.

Tend to agree with them.

Now winter athletes can plan for the spring semester.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Ivy Season
11-13-20 12:51 PM - Post#316682    
    In response to mrjames

Reading between the lines a bit and trying to make sense of Yale and Atkinson, there may be a difference between what the basketball staff encouraged and what the athletic department said and did. His reference to the “athletic department” may be pointing to such a distinction.

Also, even if it was highly unlikely that a season would happen, the simple fact of the continuing uncertainty did put the players in a tough spot. For the Yale guys who took a year off, they potentially could miss a 5th year of eligibility that everyone else in college basketball would get. Now at least all of the Ivy players are in the same boat. If it didn’t go down the way it did, only the Yale guys would lose the season. I can see how that choice could be highly frustrating, even if one side of the equation was a fairly remote possibility.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Ivy Season
11-13-20 02:03 PM - Post#316686    
    In response to SomeGuy

I think we (the League) will lose the majority of its seniors. Recruiting is ongoing full blast and the uncertainty is such that anyone who can get his degree and move onto a scholarship ought to do it (in his own interest)

 
Go Green 
PhD Student
Posts: 1124

Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
11-13-20 02:38 PM - Post#316687    
    In response to Go Green

  • Go Green Said:

Looks like the Patriot League is giving it a go for 2021.



A friend who is a sports administrator at a PL school tells me that as of today, the PL still intends to stick with its plans.

He has no idea whether or not they will let any fans in...

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Ivy Season
11-13-20 03:32 PM - Post#316691    
    In response to palestra38

Well, Yale could have an advantage in a sense if they are the only school where a lot of kids took the year off. They will lose Atkinson, which is huge, but they appear to be set to get four years out of a lot of guys. The mystery is Swain. As far as I know, he’s the one player on the team where it hasn’t been reported whether he is enrolled or not.

Of course, it is possible other schools have players doing this, and it just isn’t public. There also is arguably time. If players sit out next semester, they may be able to play their 4th year at an Ivy, even at the schools that require you to finish in 4 years (does anyone know if this is true, or if a player would need to pull out of school right now?).

 
james 
Masters Student
Posts: 779

Age: 48
Reg: 03-18-19
Re: Ivy Season
11-14-20 03:15 PM - Post#316722    
    In response to mrjames

No. JJ thought they would play in January.

when there wasn’t a definitive update earlier this fall is when Atkinson announced he was going to the Portal and expressss frustration to this end. but there was still hope for January particularly amongst the staff.

The rest of the kids hedged their bet by pulling out of the fall semester.

 
james 
Masters Student
Posts: 779

Age: 48
Reg: 03-18-19
11-14-20 03:19 PM - Post#316723    
    In response to james

Yale is strong next year regardless. They lose Atkinson but if the kids do as the staff anticipates they will have a great roster.

of course kids can change their minds. Gabiddon for example could come back this spring stop working for abromatis in Denver and blow his Yale eligibility.

Swain cld do the same. Will they? Doubt it.

Atkinson who has purportedly expanded his game now heads to the big leagues to show it


 
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