BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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10-01-20 12:42 PM - Post#314367
"The Patriot League is expected to cancel its non-conference games in November and December and begin an 18-game league only schedule on Jan. 1st, according to multiple sources source with direct knowledge of the situation."
https://collegehoopstoday .com/index.php/rothstein-...
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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10-01-20 01:06 PM - Post#314368
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
Bad decision, but not surprising. According to several sources, a number of PL teams wanted to play out of conference games but the league could not get together on a single policy. One problem, I think, is that the head of the Presidents Council is Lafayette’s president, who seemingly is anti-athletics and probably also very defensive over her blunderi in not reopening Lafayette for first semester.
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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10-01-20 01:11 PM - Post#314369
In response to Bison137
Why would the league insist that all schools have the same approach regarding non-league play?
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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10-01-20 02:14 PM - Post#314377
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
Stupidity. A few presidents seem to have the misguided idea that every school should be locked into the same policy. School such as Army and Navy must be furious.
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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10-01-20 03:04 PM - Post#314381
In response to Bison137
Do you have a sense of what Bucknell's stance is?
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Bison89
Professor
Posts: 5370
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
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10-01-20 03:20 PM - Post#314382
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
It would not surprise me if the Academies get a waiver allowing them to play nonconference games. They are typically treated differently.
| New season, new team, new dream . . . |
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RichH
Sophomore
Posts: 159
Age: 76
Reg: 01-30-12
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10-01-20 04:05 PM - Post#314386
In response to Bison89
Do not understand the rationale for this plan. Individual plans may have been different but so what. COVID may be the excuse but it doesnt serve as a reason to eliminate all OOC games. I hope the Council reassesses this plan
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jkrun80
Postdoc
Posts: 3305
Age: 65
Reg: 05-07-12
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10-01-20 07:01 PM - Post#314405
In response to RichH
Yes, it seems this decision should be up to individual schools, not to the league as a whole. I know Lehigh just suspended all varsity sports practice due to COVID exposure. But every school's situation is different. Bucknell has zero active cases right now.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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10-01-20 07:05 PM - Post#314407
In response to jkrun80
Yes, it seems this decision should be up to individual schools, not to the league as a whole. I know Lehigh just suspended all varsity sports practice due to COVID exposure. But every school's situation is different. Bucknell has zero active cases right now.
Yes. It seems like Lafayette’s president wants to punish all of the other league schools for her own incompetence. Unfortunately it seems like every one just wants to get along, as opposed to standing up for what is fair. Letting each school make its own decision would be fair.
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DrBison
Junior
Posts: 244
Age: 73
Reg: 12-22-08
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10-01-20 07:52 PM - Post#314412
In response to Bison137
Yes. Bucknell has done a great job so far, and this includes student athletes. And their reward, not being able to play the sports they love. If I was a PL student athlete or recruit, I would be looking at going where I know I can play. Time for the powers to be at BU to show some confidence and trust, grow a set, and let the student athletes play! Follow strict protocols and if cases develop, then shut it down. Why do we have to follow in lock step the Ivies and others?
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jkrun80
Postdoc
Posts: 3305
Age: 65
Reg: 05-07-12
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10-02-20 06:46 PM - Post#314518
In response to DrBison
Especially unfair if they exempt Army and Navy as they did with fall sports.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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10-02-20 08:03 PM - Post#314520
In response to jkrun80
Especially unfair if they exempt Army and Navy as they did with fall sports.
Agree 100%.
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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10-02-20 10:33 PM - Post#314524
In response to Bison137
Did the Army/Navy exemption go beyond football?
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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10-03-20 08:36 AM - Post#314526
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
Did the Army/Navy exemption go beyond football?
Yes. Both of them are playing abbreviated schedules in soccer and cross country, both men and women.
The people who run those institutions have shown a lot more brains and a lot more intestinal fortitude on this issue than the other patriot league presidents have. That assumes that all of the reports are accurate. When it comes to playing out of conference basketball games, there is no reason not to let each school decide for itself - especially given that there will be virtually no students or staff on campus during that entire period. It is easy to develop an abbreviated schedule against local teams and then cancel later if there are Covid issues. That is what 31 D1 leagues are doing.
By the way, Bucknell has now gone 19 consecutive days with no positive Covid tests. They continue to test extensively. I am sure that streak won’t last forever, but hopefully they can continue to limit the number. Colgate, Boston U, Army, and Navy also have very low rates.
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DrBison
Junior
Posts: 244
Age: 73
Reg: 12-22-08
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10-03-20 04:38 PM - Post#314530
In response to Bison137
Totally agree 137. The lack of intestinal fortitude by leadership is very obvious. The student body as well as the student athletes at BU and other PL institutions have done a great job so far following the guidelines. To tell them they can’t compete in athletics is basically telling them we have no confidence or trust in you. Great example to set for young people.
Obviously if things go south, as well they may, adjust accordingly. But to go against the NCAA guidelines is elitist. Again, we are following the Ivies like lost sheep. Also assume we are afraid of liability, which is sad. Show some leadership and say “we can do thisâ€!
Really feel bad for the student athletes, coaches, and athletic staff.
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JPM
Masters Student
Posts: 449
Reg: 05-20-08
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10-04-20 03:27 PM - Post#314533
In response to DrBison
Laf's president was the driving force behind this decision.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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10-04-20 05:08 PM - Post#314534
In response to JPM
Laf's president was the driving force behind this decision.
Yes, I think that is the case. She is anti-athletics and also under fire for having kept Lafayette shut down when schools such as Bucknell and Colgate have opened successfully.
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DrBison
Junior
Posts: 244
Age: 73
Reg: 12-22-08
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10-04-20 05:28 PM - Post#314535
In response to Bison137
So that means the Laf. President dictates the policy to the whole PL, except Army and Navy? Really sad and pathetic if true! Step up other school coaches and ADs.
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HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts: 1976
Age: 50
Reg: 02-17-12
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10-04-20 07:58 PM - Post#314540
In response to DrBison
Politics. This is partisan politics impacting sports.
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JimK_LU72
Freshman
Posts: 41
Loc: Allentown
Reg: 02-03-18
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Report: No Nonconference Play for Patriot League
10-04-20 08:05 PM - Post#314541
In response to DrBison
Several years ago there was discussion by Lafayette admins and/or faculty about dropping to D3. Apparently a large noise from older influential alumni (donors) eventually ended that talk. Must be tough to be a sports oriented Lafayette alum with this gal at the helm.
Student acquisition in this environment seems tougher every year. An interesting discussion would be the marketing value of a D1 program (versus D3) for Patriot League institutions.
Excluding the academies of course.
Edited by JimK_LU72 on 10-04-20 08:06 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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MangyOne
Freshman
Posts: 96
Loc: Rochester, NY Metro Area
Reg: 12-28-09
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10-07-20 05:17 PM - Post#314634
In response to JimK_LU72
Interesting that it has been announced the President @ Lafayette is stepping down at the end of the school year. Could there be a reason not being told to us?
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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10-15-20 02:12 PM - Post#314932
In response to JimK_LU72
It's been two weeks since prominent sports journalists reported the league was expected to ban non-conference play, but still no league announcement.
Do you think this issue is still in play?
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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10-15-20 02:51 PM - Post#314943
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
It's been two weeks since prominent sports journalists reported the league was expected to ban non-conference play, but still no league announcement.
Do you think this issue is still in play?
Possibly and hopefully. I am sure there was pushback from Army and Navy. Maybe from some of the others. Would like to think Bucknell was one, but I think Bravman rarely wants to make waves. The fact that the leader of the Presidents' Council, Alyson Byerly of Lafayette, has announced she is leaving, possibly under duress, may undermine her leadership. She is a strong opponent of athletics.
It makes no sense for the league to pass any rule governing whether or not a school can play OOC games - especially with school not in session. If safety is the concern, simply ban OOC games for ten days before the first PL game.
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KenZ
Postdoc
Posts: 2777
Reg: 01-23-06
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10-15-20 03:13 PM - Post#314944
In response to Bison137
agree, and while if as speculate, Byerly and maybe one other are against, i have just as much problem with our leadership if we simply roll over. if Army and Navy are granted exemptions, but no one else, i have a huge problem with that. yes they are different, but every school is different and as B137 says, each school should be able to make the best decision for itself on that aspect of the season.
with revised academic schedule, the school will on break from the conclusion of exams in early December through the end of January.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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Report: No Nonconference Play for Patriot League
10-15-20 06:25 PM - Post#314967
In response to KenZ
with revised academic schedule, the school will on break from the conclusion of exams in early December through the end of January.
Actually longer than that. Students leave the week before Thanksgiving and don't come back. Final exams are all online and final papers are submitted electronically. So the final day on campus is November 20th. Finals end December 7th.
First day of class second semester is Monday February 1st. That's ten weeks with almost no students on campus.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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10-15-20 06:34 PM - Post#314968
In response to Bison137
Btw, Bucknell has had 19 cases of covid in two months. They have conducted about 30,500 tests, so the positivity rate has been 06%. Only one case in the past 30 days.
I know things can go bad quickly when it comes to something like covid, but the Bucknell community deserves a lot of credit for keeping it under control. I am sure behavior hasn't always been perfect, but it clearly has been a lot better than on many campuses. And Dr. Bravman and those who worked with him deserve a lot of credit for devising and executing a good plan. Now if he could only execute a good plan when it comes to athletics.
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DrBison
Junior
Posts: 244
Age: 73
Reg: 12-22-08
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10-15-20 07:14 PM - Post#314969
In response to Bison137
Totally agree. Show the student athletes you have confidence and trust in them, and give them a chance to play.
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bison234
Sophomore
Posts: 130
Age: 56
Reg: 06-04-08
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10-16-20 07:47 AM - Post#314975
In response to DrBison
Maybe I am being too cynical but this seems to be the PL allowing the minimum risk simply to ensure that a team is eligible for the NCAA tournament. Without a team in the tourney, the PL does not get their check and therefore the majority of their revenue for the year. Allowing teams to play non-conference games is only a negative in the eyes of the league office because they see no good coming from it. This decision indicates to me that the league only has themselves in mind, not the student athletes/staffs.
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jkrun80
Postdoc
Posts: 3305
Age: 65
Reg: 05-07-12
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Report: No Nonconference Play for Patriot League
10-17-20 08:05 AM - Post#315002
In response to Bison137
Btw, Bucknell has had 19 cases of covid in two months. They have conducted about 30,500 tests, so the positivity rate has been 06%. Only one case in the past 30 days.
I know things can go bad quickly when it comes to something like covid, but the Bucknell community deserves a lot of credit for keeping it under control. I am sure behavior hasn't always been perfect, but it clearly has been a lot better than on many campuses. And Dr. Bravman and those who worked with him deserve a lot of credit for devising and executing a good plan. Now if he could only execute a good plan when it comes to athletics.
There have been no student cases in the last 4 weeks. The students have been excellent and the athletes especially are taking this very seriously. https://www.bucknell.edu/life-bucknell/fall-re open...
BTW Bravman did not even want to reopen the fitness center this fall. Athletics convinced him 1.) the opportunity to exercise was important to the health of the students and 2.) it could be done safely. They have been proven right. Hopefully they can convince him that the same can be done with varsity athletics.
Edited by jkrun80 on 10-17-20 08:06 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Bison89
Professor
Posts: 5370
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
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Re: port: No Nonconference Play for Patriot League
10-20-20 02:51 PM - Post#315144
In response to Bison137
with revised academic schedule, the school will on break from the conclusion of exams in early December through the end of January.
Actually longer than that. Students leave the week before Thanksgiving and don't come back. Final exams are all online and final papers are submitted electronically. So the final day on campus is November 20th. Finals end December 7th.
First day of class second semester is Monday February 1st. That's ten weeks with almost no students on campus.
Who is old enough to remember the Bucknell Jan Plan? I did the Jan Plan Sophomore and Junior years. Wow, what a great time!!!
| New season, new team, new dream . . . |
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bison75
Masters Student
Posts: 487
Reg: 01-26-06
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Re: port: No Nonconference Play for Patriot League
10-20-20 03:12 PM - Post#315146
In response to Bison89
I took the “know your car†Jan Plan. 😀
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Bison89
Professor
Posts: 5370
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
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Re: port: No Nonconference Play for Patriot League
10-20-20 03:43 PM - Post#315148
In response to bison75
I took the “know your car†Jan Plan. 😀
Bison75, please explain. Are you talking about roadtrips most of the month?
| New season, new team, new dream . . . |
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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Report: No Nonconference Play for Patriot League
10-20-20 07:53 PM - Post#315154
In response to Bison89
I'm guessing it was a course on basic automotive knowledge. If so, I bet it was one of the classes that has had the longest-term benefit of any he took! I could've used that.
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bison75
Masters Student
Posts: 487
Reg: 01-26-06
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10-20-20 08:10 PM - Post#315155
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
Correct, BRW. There was one field trip to a dealership in Williamsport. Let’s just say the course didn’t eat into my gym time. Lots of pickup hoops at Davis.
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Bison89
Professor
Posts: 5370
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
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10-21-20 11:36 AM - Post#315164
In response to bison75
Nice! I took Black & White Photography, which was lots of fun. Then, another year, I took The Vietnam War CBS Series, which was VERY intense but informative. Of course, I attended lots of hoops games and had a beer or two.
| New season, new team, new dream . . . |
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Bucknellbisonfan21
Masters Student
Posts: 548
Loc: Bloomsburg
Reg: 11-12-15
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10-21-20 03:40 PM - Post#315170
In response to JimK_LU72
Looks like Navy will still be hosting and playing in the Veteran’s Classic in November.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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10-21-20 03:50 PM - Post#315171
In response to Bucknellbisonfan21
Looks like Navy will still be hosting and playing in the Veteran’s Classic in November.
That doesn’t surprise me. There was little chance that army or navy would bow down to some weak-willed patriot league presidents who wanted a one size fits all approach, even though there was no reason for it. Hopefully other schools will follow suit. If Covid later becomes an issue on patriot league campuses, games can always be canceled.
Bucknell, by the way, has had only one positive test result in over 35 days. They continue to test everyone frequently.
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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10-22-20 12:05 AM - Post#315198
In response to Bucknellbisonfan21
Looks like Navy will still be hosting and playing in the Veteran’s Classic in November.
Source?
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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10-22-20 12:13 AM - Post#315199
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
Looks like Navy will still be hosting and playing in the Veteran’s Classic in November.
Source?
https://navysports.com/news/2020/10/21/mens- basket...
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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Report: No Nonconference Play for Patriot League
10-30-20 10:47 AM - Post#315704
In response to Bison137
An article in the Worcester paper, based on comments from the HC AC, clarified what a PL schedule will look like:
1. No OOC games - EXCEPT FOR ARMY AND NAVY.
2. No info about PL tournament.
3. More of a regional schedule - but no info on what that means.
4. Probably no fans at any HC games. Doesn't say if that is league policy.
To me this is not unexpected, but I think it is stupid. As mentioned before, there is no reason not to let each school decide about OOC play. Just insist on a 10-day quarantine period prior to the first league game. There are no students on campus between November 21st and the end of January, so that is an ideal time to be scheduling games. It it's OK for Army and Navy, it should be OK for each school.
Excerpts from the article:
"The Holy Cross men’s and women’s basketball teams won’t play any non-conference games in 2020-21, and the Patriot League is expected to release the upcoming season schedule, that is slated to begin after Jan. 1, soon.
“It’s close,†Holy Cross director of athletics Marcus Blossom said Thursday, “but it’s not complete.â€
Blossom said there will be no non-conference play for any Patriot League members except Army and Navy. He expects the schedules for both Holy Cross teams to be more regional, with HC playing more games against teams that are closer geographically.
The Crusaders began practicing Oct. 15.
“They’re working very hard, both the men’s and women’s programs,†Blossom said. “Obviously, they would have liked to have played non-conference games beginning Nov. 25 as the coaches and myself would have liked them to have that opportunity, but that’s not the case and we’re trying to focus on what we have in front of us and put our teams in the best position possible to succeed in whatever we have in front of us.â€
Blossom said he does not expect to have fans at Holy Cross home games, and among the COVID protocols, will be increasing testing for all winter student-athletes who are competing from twice a week to three times a week."
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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10-30-20 01:38 PM - Post#315735
In response to Bison137
"He expects the schedules for both Holy Cross teams to be more regional, with HC playing more games against teams that are closer geographically."
Sounds like the league may do a North-South split, with, say, Holy Cross playing Colgate four times or something???
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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10-30-20 03:03 PM - Post#315740
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
Yes, it sounds like that. The problem for HC is that it is not at all close to most PL schools. When they fly to the DC/Baltimore schools, that is an easy trip (and cheap) - but I don't know if the PL will let them fly.
Driving time from HC to Colgate, btw, is 3:50.
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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10-30-20 04:39 PM - Post#315743
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
By what rationale are Army and Navy excepted from a general league ban on nonconference play? Is it somehow essential to national security? An additional reward for their future military employment?
"The Patriot League 2020-21: Saluting military service while demonstrating cowardice in the face of a virus with a 99%+ survival rate for those under 70."
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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10-30-20 04:55 PM - Post#315745
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
...and 94.6% for those 70+.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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Report: No Nonconference Play for Patriot League
10-30-20 05:00 PM - Post#315746
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
I think the only rationale is that the leaders of Army and Navy refused to submit to the lack of leadership being exhibited by the rest of the PL when it comes to dealing with athletics. I imagine they just said something like this: "We're playing. Athletics are important, and we think a modest OOC schedule can be done safely. It's silly for other schools to tell us what to do when we know a lot more about our situation than outsiders do."
I think Army and Navy would be willing to leave the PL, if necessary, rather than be dictated to in an area that really is none of the PL's business.
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scorekeeper
Freshman
Posts: 59
Reg: 01-11-12
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10-30-20 07:22 PM - Post#315753
In response to Bison137
Maybe they will limit traveling long distances and maybe play some teams once during conference play. Back in 2004 or so, they use to play Friday and Sundays. I can see them doing something like that where they would play Army and Colgate away
the same weekend. Also Boston and Holy Cross can
be figured for traveling as well.
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jkrun80
Postdoc
Posts: 3305
Age: 65
Reg: 05-07-12
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11-02-20 01:10 PM - Post#315841
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
"He expects the schedules for both Holy Cross teams to be more regional, with HC playing more games against teams that are closer geographically."
Sounds like the league may do a North-South split, with, say, Holy Cross playing Colgate four times or something???
I don't see how a North-South split would work. Navy, Loyola, and American are clearly South. They're not going to split up Lehigh and Lafayette, so they would go in the South. That leaves Bucknell in the North and having to travel more that 3.5-6+ hours to every away game?
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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11-02-20 01:33 PM - Post#315843
In response to jkrun80
Yes, there is no good way to split the league geographically if required transportation is by bus. The only "good" option is if the league lets the Boston-area schools and the D.C./Baltimore schools fly to games. In that case, you could have an Eastern section of Holy Cross, Boston, Navy, American, and Loyola, plus a Western section of Bucknell, LU, LC, Colgate, and Army.
It is fairly cheap for Holy Cross, for example, to fly to D.C. Right now round-trip tickets in early January between Boston and D.C. range from $75 (Spirit) to $91 (Jet Blue) to $97 (American and United). There are over 30 direct flights with round-trip fares less than $100. That arrangement would likely minimize total league travel time. A flight to DC from Holy Cross is a lot quicker than a bus ride to Bucknell.
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Maryland Bison
Freshman
Posts: 57
Reg: 04-20-18
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Report: No Nonconference Play for Patriot League
11-05-20 11:19 AM - Post#316027
In response to Bison137
Navy's football game this weekend was just postponed because of positive COVID tests on the team.
Edited by Maryland Bison on 11-05-20 11:19 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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11-05-20 06:51 PM - Post#316075
In response to Maryland Bison
Philly Inquirer story around coaches’ opinions about the best way to proceed:
https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/villan ova/...
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Bison89
Professor
Posts: 5370
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
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Report: No Nonconference Play for Patriot League
11-09-20 12:14 PM - Post#316238
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
PL announced in-conference games only this year starting 01/02 with games being played against the same school in consecutive days. For example: Bucknell is playing Navy on Jan 2 and Jan 3.
The Academies get to do whatever they want and play full schedules.
https://bucknellbison.com/news/2020/11/9/mens-b ask...
| New season, new team, new dream . . . |
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bison75
Masters Student
Posts: 487
Reg: 01-26-06
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11-12-20 09:26 PM - Post#316634
In response to Bison89
With Covid numbers surging, the Ivy League has canceled all winter sports. I do not think they will be alone if the virus gets as bad as the models project. Let us hope we still have a conference season.
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Bison54
PhD Student
Posts: 1800
Reg: 11-18-09
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11-12-20 11:24 PM - Post#316642
In response to bison75
How far behind will the Patriot League be????
I put it at about 87%
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Bison89
Professor
Posts: 5370
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
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11-13-20 06:58 AM - Post#316648
In response to bison75
With Covid numbers surging, the Ivy League has canceled all winter sports. I do not think they will be alone if the virus gets as bad as the models project. Let us hope we still have a conference season.
They also announced that Fall sports will not be played in the Spring.
More details:
https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/penn/i vy-l...
| New season, new team, new dream . . . |
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