JadwinGeorge
Senior
Posts: 357
Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
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12-09-21 11:13 AM - Post#331007
Hard to be surprised by anything re: Ivy basketball after 600-day layoff. Nevertheless, Columbia is floundering to a degree I find shocking. At this point I believe the Tigers have done well. They have more than held their own against mid-major competition. Losing to Monmouth was hardly a shock, nor was the loss at Hofstra, although I think it is foolish to play a game after three hours sitting in traffic in a bus. (Same thing happened to the women at Fordham). With $30+ billion in the bank why not put the kids in a hotel for a night?
Harvard has not settled on a rotation yet because Amaker cares little about the OOC results. Jones knows what he's doing, of course, so one ought not read anything into Yale's scores either. Cornell is a surprise. Sure, Earl has played some cupcakes but make no mistake, he's changing the culture above Cayuga's waters. SD hasn't been at full strength, as far as I can tell, nor has Penn played at home much, and one its home games was against Villanova. If there is a home court advantage anymore it's The Cathedral on the Schuylkill. Dartmouth is capable of an upset or two. Brown is, if not a lock for Ivy Madness, a pretty good bet. This season should produce a mad scramble right down to the last week. And I love it (as long as the Tigers are in it).
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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Re: Where do we stand
12-09-21 07:39 PM - Post#331080
In response to JadwinGeorge
Good question but hard to answer. Although IL has a plus 500 non-conference so far, most teams seem to be fading especially against stronger competition.
As to the Tigers, they may finish non-conference play at 10-3 or 9-4 but the competition has been soft. Minnesota just had their first loss with many more to come and South Carolina will probably go downhill. Oregon State is 1-8. Even if they go on a really good IL run, it is highly unlikely that they will get a bid to the Big Dance unless they win IvyMadness.
Tigers certainly have offensive talent but can they play defense??? Seems questionable at best. Fortunately, it may not be the most daunting task to qualify for IvyMadness this year based on the overall quality of teams. It would seem that the Tigers should be in the mix barring significant injuries.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3666
Reg: 02-06-10
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Where do we stand
12-09-21 09:13 PM - Post#331082
In response to bradley
We've had 2 chances for quality wins - Minnesota and Monmouth - and missed out on both. Former was a valiant 2OT loss, latter was a gut punch due to Tosan's absence and a total collapse in the 2nd half. As a result, I don't really know how good this team is.
Sometimes they look like a 20-win Bracket Buster. Other times, they look like a 7-7 Ivy team that might miss the conference tourney. If pressed, I predict they'll go 9-5 and make the Ivy tourney. That's all I feel comfortable expecting. This team has been very fun to watch, though.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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12-10-21 04:14 AM - Post#331091
In response to gokinsmen
I expect this group to progress as the season goes on. Not just on D, where there is obvious room for growth, but also on the offensive end, even though they look pretty good already. Assists can go up and turnovers down with just a bit more anticipation of cutters and harder cuts. Players can improve their contested finishes. AndI suspect that three-point shooting by Friberg, for example, should rise.
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whitakk
Masters Student
Posts: 523
Age: 32
Reg: 11-11-14
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12-11-21 09:40 AM - Post#331207
In response to SRP
A bit of three-point shooting regression likely to come for Jaelin/Wright/Langborg though, and the turnover rate is already the lowest in Princeton history so it doesn't have much further to fall.
Maybe they could get to the line more (looking at Jaelin especially), but just maintaining this level of offensive performance would be a win -- and enough to make them title contenders in this year's version of this league -- and any real gains will pretty much have to come from defense.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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12-11-21 07:26 PM - Post#331239
In response to whitakk
The Tigers absolutely drilled Lafayette on offense, so that was fun to watch.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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12-11-21 07:42 PM - Post#331240
In response to SRP
Tigers had many open 3 pt shots due to good ball movement and they were stroking it just fine. Tosan only had 19 minutes and Lafayette bigs did a good job guarding him == might be a recipe for some IL teams as to how to guard him.
Jaelin only took 7 shots which is rare indeed but his 3 pt shot looks so much better -- certainly, his mechanics have improved. Friberg seems to be regaining his confidence. Big surprise this year has been how Wright has taken his game to a different level along with Langborg.
It will come down to defense and rebounding when league play begins.
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welcometothejungle
Masters Student
Posts: 788
Age: 27
Reg: 07-31-19
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12-11-21 09:27 PM - Post#331252
In response to bradley
Looks like Minnesota is going to get a win at Michigan, their first win in Ann Arbor since 2011
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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12-12-21 09:43 AM - Post#331267
In response to welcometothejungle
Good to see Minnesota win against a ranked team.
After watching replay, Lafayette had legitimate sized bigs who played down low and there were a handful for Tosan. Hooks and Barnes were simply overmatched. Hooks is actually regressing which is not unusual for a freshmen both on the defensive and offensive end.
Although IL is not loaded with bigs, i.e. Atkinson in his Yale days, they do need to get Kellman back on the floor as Tosan can get in foul trouble due to his aggressive defensive play. They need Kellman for 10-15 minutes for sure unless Hooks somehow progresses.
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Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts: 411
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-12-21 11:37 AM - Post#331269
In response to bradley
I think Coach Henderson is expanding Hooks' role/expectations, which may be why he appears to be regressing. Quality minutes now for him should pay dividends when league play commences.
But 100% agree that getting Kellman back would take a lot of the pressure off Hooks' development.
My take on Tosun yesterday was that they scouted his spin moves in the lane and were ready for them. If he feels his defender(s) falling back to protect the rim he will need to develop new options and not always default to a lay-in against team's with decent-sized bigs.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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12-13-21 04:32 AM - Post#331297
In response to Tiger81
Kellman would be a welcome sight out there. His power, hands, and hops are rare and he plays hard. Hooks did look a bit tentative offensively and confused defensively at times against Lafayette, butI doubt he’s forgotten how to pass and shoot. He’ll figure out that end pretty quickly, I’d guess.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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12-13-21 08:53 AM - Post#331299
In response to SRP
It is a good question as to where do we stand going into the IL season and perhaps, the answer has a lot to do with the level of competition. As Swain displayed last night, he is probably the single best offensive force on any given night. One suspects that Coach Jones will have Yale play with great energy throughout the IL season. Harvard has Kirkwood and Ledlum and every other team has one or possibly two very good players but overall, there appears to be a scarcity of talent, especially on the defensive end -- rim protector(s). Could Brown or Cornell surprise?
The Tigers has three senior co-captains with a lot of experience with the Princeton system plus Tosan and Langborg. is it enough?? -- might be. Mitch has always claimed that the IL is a senior driven league but time will tell.
5 possibly 6 teams will be playing for 4 spots, IvyMadness. 3 teams are probably playing for regular season crown although that really does not matter anymore. It will come down to two games in Boston. Based on non-conference play to date, the winner may be a 15th or 16th seed at the Big Dance.
Not sure if the loss of talent has impacted the league or not playing last year or recruiting but it does appear to be a down year which may give the senior laden Tigers a good opportunity to enjoy going to the Big Dance. I am sure that Jaelin, Wright and Friberg would thoroughly enjoy the opportunity after what they have been through.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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12-13-21 09:21 AM - Post#331300
In response to bradley
The Title is still more meaningful than the idiotic Tournament IMHO. 14 home and home games means more and deserves better.????
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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12-13-21 04:29 PM - Post#331312
In response to Tiger69
Given the lack of a standout team this year and the parity, I see the league regular season champion having something like 4 losses. Unless that's Cornell or maybe Princeton, I see our tournament champion as a 16th seed. On the Penn board someone noticed Lunardi currently has Princeton at #64 in his bracketology. It will be really tight as everyone other than Columbia will likely be within a tight spread not only for the tournament, but possibly the regular season title.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3666
Reg: 02-06-10
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12-13-21 05:46 PM - Post#331315
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Fairly or not, I don't see the Selection Committee making the Ivy team a 16th seed. There's just too much history of Ivies being competitive (or winning) their opening round games. Princeton, Penn, Harvard, Cornell, Yale... Unless Columbia somehow sneaks in and WINS the Ivy Tourney, 15th seed will be the Ivy's floor.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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12-13-21 06:23 PM - Post#331316
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
At least, Harvard will have home games this year instead of being a road team as they were in the IvyMadness Championship Games --- 2018 and 2019. The home team has won the prior two tournaments and the home team almost knocked off the clear #1 seed in 2017. In a perfect world, Tigers would probably have preferred being the home team this year versus next year based on their prospects but one never knows for sure.
I remember that some opined that it really was not that big of a deal as to having homecourt. Part of the reasoning, if I remember correctly, was that the IL would have two teams getting invited to the Big Dance on a somewhat regular basis or somehow the 2 to 3 pt spread would not apply. Always thought that it would take 3 to 5 years to decide if the premise regarding 2 teams receiving an invitation was a logical one or not. Did not seem so but time will tell.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Where do we stand
12-13-21 10:45 PM - Post#331340
In response to JadwinGeorge
I like this Princeton team and think they have a decent shot at winning the title and the play-in to the NCAA tourney this year. They’ve had some close games and (except for the grueling double OT game vs. Minnesota) have pulled them out with gritty play when it really counted. (Monmouth was not close down the stretch and The Tigers made a valiant run after getting down big at Hofstra but it wasn’t lack of focus at the end that cost them that game). That grittiness can take them a long way.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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12-14-21 12:10 AM - Post#331347
In response to TigerFan
Harvard enters its third consecutive season as the Ivy Tournament host!
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Naismith
Sophomore
Posts: 149
Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
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12-14-21 12:43 PM - Post#331365
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
ESPN demands Ivy League title game be played at 4 p.m. on the last day of Madness qualification that leads into the Selection Sunday program. This results in the Ivy champion always has the least amount of prep time to face another play-in selection Tuesday or Wednesday, or face a 1 or 2 seed as a 16 or 15 entry.
Payback appears to be more multi Ivy sports seasonal events on ESPN-+ than many other leagues.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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12-14-21 04:30 PM - Post#331376
In response to Naismith
There is a risk that the selection committee will just slot the Ivy Champion as a 16 or maybe at the seed of the lesser of the two teams scheduled to play Sunday at 4pm.
Will all that is going on that day, I believe there is no way they'd spend time around 6pm that day moving other teams around to accommodate our timing.
I recall that's what some suspected when Penn received their 16 seed a few years back.
By the way, with Cornell doing a partial shut down (Red Scare) due to increasing COVID numbers, could it be that Harvard gets to host the Tournament in 2023 - for the first time, again?
I'm already being pressured not to take my son to the Peach Bowl (I have tix for my Pitt grad).
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welcometothejungle
Masters Student
Posts: 788
Age: 27
Reg: 07-31-19
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12-14-21 09:20 PM - Post#331406
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Monmouth up by 16 on Yale in New Haven tonight
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welcometothejungle
Masters Student
Posts: 788
Age: 27
Reg: 07-31-19
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12-14-21 10:07 PM - Post#331408
In response to welcometothejungle
Furious comeback by Yale falls short late, and Monmouth emerges with a 69-60 win in New Haven, their NCAA leading 7th true road win
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-22-21 10:20 PM - Post#331788
In response to gokinsmen
The last time the league champ was rated as low as Princeton is this year, the league got a 16 — and that was just 2 tournaments ago (for the Ivy, at least). I don’t see any reason to believe 15 is the floor. Will depend on other conference tournaments, of course, but I think a 16 is more likely than not for anyone but Princeton this year.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3666
Reg: 02-06-10
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12-27-21 09:37 PM - Post#331885
In response to SomeGuy
I forgot Penn was a 16-seed in 2018. I guess it's a lot more possible than I thought. That said, with all these covid absences causing starters to miss games, I suspect we could see a lot of flukey Championship Week results... which will be good for the Ivy rep.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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12-30-21 09:05 PM - Post#331969
In response to gokinsmen
Updated Lunardi Bracketology has the Tigers playing #1 seed Gonzaga. Ouch!
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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12-31-21 11:45 AM - Post#331987
In response to bradley
Aren’t we getting a little ahead of ourselves? Let’s win a few games first.
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welcometothejungle
Masters Student
Posts: 788
Age: 27
Reg: 07-31-19
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12-31-21 07:04 PM - Post#332014
In response to Tiger69
For whatever it's worth, Princeton is a 14 seed in the newest ESPN bracketology
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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12-31-21 07:12 PM - Post#332015
In response to welcometothejungle
See what a postponement can do for you!
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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12-31-21 07:41 PM - Post#332016
In response to welcometothejungle
College Sports Madness bracketology has the Tiger's women as a #12 seed playing Courtney and Carlie (UNC) in the first round. Now, that would be an interesting watch.
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