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Username Post: Cornell shuts down campus        (Topic#25748)
Tiger84 
Senior
Posts: 376

Age: 61
Reg: 03-06-17
12-14-21 04:57 PM - Post#331378    

Well, this can't be good.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/us/cornell -universi...

One can only hope this is not a preview of things to come all across the league and across all campuses.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Cornell shuts down campus
12-14-21 05:11 PM - Post#331379    
    In response to Tiger84

If there is no active disease, this is a mistake. It shows the vaccine works. And it will force the "broader community" to get vaccinated. Are we going to torpedo our economy and cause massive civil unrest just because people test positive and don't get sick? Covid is with us indefinitely---it won't go away. The common cold is a coronavirus. Do we shut down the nation because someone gets a cold? What on earth are we doing?

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
12-14-21 05:16 PM - Post#331380    
    In response to palestra38

Careful, P38. You’ll get lumped in with the “deniers.” Our lockdown overlords brook no dissent.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
Cornell shuts down campus
12-14-21 05:23 PM - Post#331382    
    In response to SRP

I know---I am fairly heretical on this issue from the party line. The only reason they knew about this is because they test frequently---something most vaccinated people do not have to do.

 
Tiger84 
Senior
Posts: 376

Age: 61
Reg: 03-06-17
12-14-21 05:29 PM - Post#331386    
    In response to SRP

Vaccines *reduce* transmission of the virus and severity of an infection. They do no *eliminate* transmission, nor does it eliminate symptoms in all cases.

Yes, these are *generally* healthy kids who will *generally* have mild illnesses. But some will get very sick. And many are going to be going home after finals and risk infecting Grandma.

So let's be careful about dismissing this.

P.S. Yes, the common cold may be a coronavirus, but that's like saying that a housecat and a tiger are both felines, so let's let people jump into the tiger exhibit at the zoo because Fluffy is so adorable.



 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
12-14-21 05:32 PM - Post#331388    
    In response to palestra38

You might enjoyMitch Daniels’s commencement speech at Purdue (they kept their campus open last year). Start around 5:05 here:

https://youtu.be/2PaQ9GKDO0c

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
12-14-21 05:52 PM - Post#331393    
    In response to Tiger84

Let's assume you don't have a Grandma at home. But even if you do, isn't the way to deal with it that you get tested before you visit Grandma and if positive, don't visit? Do we shut down the nation if you test positive rather than protect Grandma?

I remember when all this started--the purpose of the shutdown was to provide a bridge for a vaccine. Once there was a vaccine, then we would protect Grandma but live normal lives. Somehow, all of this got F---d up and people are afraid of their own shadow. If you are fully vaccinated, you have virtually no chance of severe disease unless you are immunocompromised---like Grandma up there.

We are doing this all wrong.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
12-14-21 06:38 PM - Post#331395    
    In response to SRP

We can only hope that IL Presidents are not forming a task force to reexamine playing sports during the Winter. Nothing would surprise me with this cast of characters.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
12-14-21 08:34 PM - Post#331402    
    In response to Tiger84

  • Tiger84 Said:
Vaccines *reduce* transmission of the virus and severity of an infection. They do no *eliminate* transmission, nor does it eliminate symptoms in all cases.





Yes, exactly.





oh you think you're making a point that defends what you're saying instead of making the other more correct case. We can't eliminate coronavirus. It's endemic. Just sit back and relax bruh.

 
Ever True 
Junior
Posts: 252

Age: 28
Reg: 02-02-15
12-15-21 10:31 AM - Post#331424    
    In response to Jeff2sf

FWIW, I can't imagine the league shutting down for a second year in a row. Last year, the presidents made the early call to not play and could play it off as "the smartest guys in the room making the smart decision" - that's not to say that it was or wasn't the smartest decision, just that seems to be the way it was marketed.

This year, you're in the middle of a season, and all of your campuses are not only highly vaccinated, they also have access to testing that the rest of the country can only dream of. Maybe the biggest thing is that I can say with almost a 100% certainty that schools are not going to hybrid learning next semester. Princeton and Yale have pretty much told international grad students to not go home because they can't guarantee that they'll be able to get back in to the country and they won't be doing Zoom teaching next semester. Brown has just mandated booster shots and testing upon arrival for next semester. We can yell at each other until the cows come home about what should be done, but I'm cautiously optimistic that we'll get a full season this time around.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
12-15-21 10:49 AM - Post#331425    
    In response to Ever True

Governor of Colorado got it right. The "emergency" is "over" and at this point, "if you haven’t been vaccinated, it’s really your own darn fault.”

“Our top goal is always to follow the science, and there was a time when there was no vaccine, and masks were all we had and we needed to wear them,” Polis said. “The truth is we now have highly effective vaccines that work far better than masks.”

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
12-15-21 10:53 AM - Post#331426    
    In response to SRP

I think Gov Polis of Colorado, whom I quoted in the post above this, has better reasoning---those who question the shutdown and use of masks before vaccines were developed were willing to tolerate risks that are unreasonable. They now are reasonable and anyone who hasn't vaccinated is going about his or her business at their own risk. Still, the variants are largely due to the huge number still unvaccinated and that is just a shame. But the cat is out of the barn---we have to live with Covid for the indefinite future and as long as we are all vaccinated, we will be able to live with it.

 
Streamers 
Professor
Posts: 8141
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
12-15-21 11:44 AM - Post#331431    
    In response to palestra38

Maybe we don't know enough yet about the hospitalization rate for Omicron infections, breakthrough and otherwise, across the age brackets to have informed opinions here.

Aside to Jeff: Young people ARE vulnerable to Covid, just less so. The data is just starting to come in on long-term illness in younger victims, and it's a real risk. We cannot act like this is not a real risk.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
12-15-21 11:52 AM - Post#331432    
    In response to Streamers

counterpoint, we can. Look man, we accept risk in all phases of our life. They should get vaccinated and we move on.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
12-15-21 11:55 AM - Post#331434    
    In response to Jeff2sf

honestly, I don't really like to be this strident. Unlike virtually all of you, I risked my health in the vaccine trial because I wanted to help out. I believe in the science and I've also got my eye on Omicron.

But there are people, Penn Nation being the best example, who have shown they are as intransigent as the COVID deniers when it comes to relaxing restrictions even in the face of "Good" numbers. Since I can't trust them to act in good faith, I have to oppose their lack of guts.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
Cornell shuts down campus
12-15-21 12:05 PM - Post#331436    
    In response to Jeff2sf

The problem is that the Omicron outbreak at Cornell, which has gotten tremendous attention, with 900 "cases" is an outbreak only because the students are regularly tested. As to the "disease" element:

“While I want to provide reassurance that, to date, we have not seen severe illness in any of our infected students, we do have a role to play in reducing the spread of the disease in the broader community,” Pollack (Cornell's President) wrote.

So no serious illness among 903 students testing positive, yet the University is shut down and they go back to hiding in caves. This is just ridiculous. If no one is getting seriously ill, then it's like dealing with colds. And, as Gov Polis stated, if people are unvaccinated and get really sick, it's their own fault at this point. The country is going to explode over this issue and the voices of fascism will prevail. Guess it's a question of risk--I think that risk is far more severe.

 
rbg 
Postdoc
Posts: 3044

Reg: 10-20-14
12-15-21 12:05 PM - Post#331437    
    In response to Jeff2sf

FWIW, Axios had an article this morning with CDC reported vaccination numbers for US ages 5+:

Unvaccinated 23% (73 million)
First Dose Only 12% (37 million)
Two Doses, But Not Yet Eligible for Booster 19% (58.3 million)
Two Doses and Eligible, but Not Boosted 29% (89.5 million)
Received Booster or Third Dose 17% (54 million)

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Cornell shuts down campus
12-15-21 12:20 PM - Post#331441    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
The problem is that the Omicron outbreak at Cornell, which has gotten tremendous attention, with 900 "cases" is an outbreak only because the students are regularly tested. As to the "disease" element:

“While I want to provide reassurance that, to date, we have not seen severe illness in any of our infected students, we do have a role to play in reducing the spread of the disease in the broader community,” Pollack (Cornell's President) wrote.

So no serious illness among 903 students testing positive, yet the University is shut down and they go back to hiding in caves. This is just ridiculous. If no one is getting seriously ill, then it's like dealing with colds. And, as Gov Polis stated, if people are unvaccinated and get really sick, it's their own fault at this point. The country is going to explode over this issue and the voices of fascism will prevail. Guess it's a question of risk--I think that risk is far more severe.



not only did we send them back to their caves, we sent them home to grandma who may or may not be boosted. Grandma is still someone I'm interested in thoughtfully protecting. Not at the expense of everything.

 
rbg 
Postdoc
Posts: 3044

Reg: 10-20-14
Cornell shuts down campus
12-15-21 12:34 PM - Post#331442    
    In response to rbg

With the recent increases in a number of covid metrics, based on the start of the colder weather, holiday travel and a new variant, it seems likely that the eight schools will consider changes.

I'm curious what people think would be the best/safest things for them to consider?

Some of my initial thoughts -
Only allowing fans who have been received the booster would seem to the safest way to maintain the present conditions with regards to masking, masking enforcement, crowd size and concessions.

Allowing fans who have been boosted and those with two doses could be done, but schools would have to be more vigilant with regards to masking enforcement and may have to limit crowd size & concessions.

Allowing those groups, as well as people with one dose or no vaccines (with or without a recent test), would seem to create too many potential problems for schools to want to handle.

Edited by rbg on 12-15-21 12:38 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
12-15-21 02:11 PM - Post#331449    
    In response to rbg

It’s pretty obvious that the vaccines have a small effect on recipient infection risk and transmission risk and a large effect on severity of infection. So there isn’t a sensible tradeoff of community benefit for lockdowns to be had. It’s turned into COVID theater. Noof ne of RBG’s proposed restrictions are needed, and given the brilliant new and improved Ivy schedule there won’t be students around for a ton of games anyway.

BTW, those of us unfortunate enough to be subject to University of California policy will be teaching in “dual mode” for the duration, with students who give a “good reason” Zooming into our face-to-face (really mask-to-mask) classes while being promised equal learning opportunities. Depending numbers with a “good reason,” that could be worse than all-remote teaching.

 
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