SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-14-22 09:06 PM - Post#333278
The matchups have been counterintuitive thus far in the Ivies, so who knows. I assume Martz gets first crack at Rai, and that will be an interesting matchup. Dartmouth’s bigs have been inconsistent, so on paper not as tough a guard as the first three games in the league for Mosh. But Adelekun has been coming on of late and Krystkowiak has had his moments. A little unclear to me who Dingle guards in this one. I guess Samuels/Cornish.
Like Penn, Dartmouth has played a tough schedule, and I suspect they may finish higher than their current kenpom rank in the league (I would not be shocked if they snuck into the last 4). They are much better than Columbia.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Dartmouth 01-15-22 10:22 AM - Post#333283
In response to SomeGuy
One other observation—Dartmouth is similar to Brown in the sense they are much better on defense than offense. Dartmouth is the second best defensive team in the league (after Brown), and the second worst offensive team (only ahead of Columbia). Which is probably why Brown and Dartmouth had trouble cracking 100 total points against each other last Saturday.
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Go Green
PhD Student
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Age: 52
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Re: Dartmouth 01-15-22 01:42 PM - Post#333286
In response to SomeGuy
One other observation—Dartmouth is similar to Brown in the sense they are much better on defense than offense. Dartmouth is the second best defensive team in the league (after Brown), and the second worst offensive team (only ahead of Columbia). Which is probably why Brown and Dartmouth had trouble cracking 100 total points against each other last Saturday.
Brown is much more athletic than Dartmouth. We're a shooting team. If our threes aren't dropping, we have a hard time winning.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Dartmouth 01-15-22 02:30 PM - Post#333288
In response to Go Green
Penn is -5/-210 for no reason that I can discern. The over is 134. I think they go over that paltry number.
Dartmouth does not present the frontcourt matchup issues Penn is vulnerable to, but they are a Senior-laden team with superior experience.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Dartmouth 01-15-22 02:36 PM - Post#333289
In response to Go Green
Agreed that athleticism isn’t what makes Dartmouth go. However, the way they use Rai and Wade makes them an interesting matchup. They have more length at the 3 and 4 positions than anyone in the league but Brown, and that presents an interesting matchup question.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Dartmouth 01-15-22 02:39 PM - Post#333290
In response to Streamers
Isn’t -5 exactly what kenpom says (assuming 3 points for home court)? That seems exactly right for the line. Though, as my posts make clear, I wouldn’t be surprised if Dartmouth wins. But I think Penn by 5 or so is the right line.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32686
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Dartmouth 01-15-22 03:07 PM - Post#333299
In response to SomeGuy
Did anyone see the lineups--every height was way off?
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 6997
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-15-22 03:23 PM - Post#333304
In response to palestra38
Really getting tiresome watching Dingle dribble into a perimeter double team and then throw the ball wildly without a clue where his teammates are. He does this multiple times per game and its in the opponents book on him that they can force him into easy TOs.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32686
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-15-22 03:30 PM - Post#333306
In response to Chip Bayers
The defense is just ridiculous....allowing a slo-mo drive through 3 Matador defenders
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1124
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-15-22 03:30 PM - Post#333307
In response to Chip Bayers
So how do you feel about him getting blocked on a breakaway after slowing down and going up off two feet?
Not pretty.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 6997
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-15-22 03:32 PM - Post#333309
In response to 91Quake
So how do you feel about him getting blocked on a breakaway after slowing down and going up off two feet?
Not pretty.
Seriously. His decision-making overall last couple games has been dreadful
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1124
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-15-22 03:37 PM - Post#333310
In response to Chip Bayers
Absolutely. Too much hero ball
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2211
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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01-15-22 03:49 PM - Post#333316
In response to 91Quake
Not good execution at the end of the half there.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2211
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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01-15-22 04:34 PM - Post#333321
In response to dperry
Both Mosh and Martz with 4 and 7:44 to go.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Dartmouth 01-15-22 04:39 PM - Post#333322
In response to SomeGuy
I no longer recognize a 3 point HC advantage this year in the Ivy for reasons discussed in another thread.
Same goes for the NFL BTW. Home teams are pretty bad ATS I’m the playoffs in recent years.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1124
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-15-22 04:45 PM - Post#333325
In response to Streamers
These refs are interesting.
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2211
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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01-15-22 04:45 PM - Post#333326
In response to Streamers
Slack with the big inbounds steal and score, then his brother carries to turn it back over. Up 7 with 4.5 to go.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2211
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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01-15-22 04:46 PM - Post#333327
In response to dperry
Williams with the steal and the carom off the defender for the turnover.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-15-22 04:47 PM - Post#333328
In response to dperry
Notice ESPN thinks we are still 2-0 in the league.
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2211
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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01-15-22 04:50 PM - Post#333330
In response to Streamers
And Jelani again with the strong move for two and the foul.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2211
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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01-15-22 05:06 PM - Post#333334
In response to dperry
78-68 final. All right, got it done. Also gonna have to pick it up on Monday against the furry hordes.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 6997
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-15-22 05:06 PM - Post#333335
In response to dperry
Solid second half effort, shredding Dartmouth’s D and stepping it up just enough defensively.
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Quake Show
Junior
Posts: 218
Reg: 03-04-20
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01-15-22 05:07 PM - Post#333336
In response to dperry
Williams, Monroe, Slajchert the heroes of this game. High effort plays, playing tough basketball, active hands, rebounding. Great comeback
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2211
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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01-15-22 05:09 PM - Post#333337
In response to dperry
Speaking of Princeton, another nailbiter for them with Brown at home. Brown had two free throws with 20 seconds left to tie and could only get one.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1124
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-15-22 05:24 PM - Post#333341
In response to dperry
Gotta give Martz some credit today also. Nice team win.
Maybe we can start the P game with the defense we seem to bring into the second half of some of these games?
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-15-22 05:29 PM - Post#333343
In response to Quake Show
George Smith may have had the best game of all. Thought Martz played well on both ends other than the foul trouble. Martz, Mosh, and Monroe limiting Rai’s looks was key.
Wonder if at some point here an opponent comes in with a less Dingle-centric gameplan because of the way the Ivy games have gone so far. And then Dingle goes off. Hopefully the team has gained some confidence that they can win without Dingle scoring a ton (and hopefully Jordan doesn’t feel quite as much of the weight of the world on his shoulders).
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Dartmouth 01-15-22 05:34 PM - Post#333345
In response to SomeGuy
I’m fine with teams facing us with a Dingle-centric defense if that opens things up for other guys. If you listened to George Smith’s post game interview, it seems much of our offense is based on getting the ball to Mosh in the post - both for his passing and that increasingly effective jump hook. In that case, opponents focusing on Dingle can only help.
Even when we went 5 minutes with Mosh and Martz benched with 4 fouls, we expanded our lead without a major contribution from Dingle.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1117
Loc: Cornwall, PA
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01-15-22 06:13 PM - Post#333351
In response to LyleGold
There is little reason to fashion a Dingle-centric defense for a player who averages about 20 minutes per game. Those are his IVY numbers. It was notable that Dingle satfor most of the last ten minutes of this game. He was not in foul trouble. Martz was but was still in.
Also Spinosa, although healthy now is playing less than ten minutes a game, including this game while Penn's only other 'big' man Moscovitz was on the bench for most of the second half.
This is truly a team of tweeners. They remain vulnerable to big men but are showing the ability to hold their own against smaller teams.
I didn't see any Penn stars today, but Martz, Williams, Slajchert, Smith, and Monroe were all solid. Looks like Smith is the real find among the Frosh this year, while Clark is definitely improving.
We should be pleased with a win like this on a day when Dingle was 4-11 and enough in the doghouse to sit during crunch time. It appears that Slajchert has moved ahead of him as the point guard and prime creating player. Sadly Jordan shows little progress over his performance as a frosh. In contrast the five I mentioned above including Clark, have all shown improvement since November.
KenPom has Penn back ahead of Cornell, but still finishing 7-7. This is the best guess of the results of 3-1 team after a very easy early schedule. Note that Ken Pom also has Harvard at 7-7.
This was an important win for a team with no margin for error. The Harvard start makes getting a win in one of the two games against them very important. This could be a year for tie breakers.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 6997
Loc: New York
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01-15-22 06:21 PM - Post#333352
In response to UPIA1968
There is less than zero evidence that Slajchert has passed Dingle in the guard rotation.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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Dartmouth 01-15-22 06:30 PM - Post#333354
In response to UPIA1968
You’re not understanding my point. Each of the last 3 opponents have come in with a similar gameplan premised on how to attack Dingle on both offense and defense. And in all three games, the opponent has struggled when Jordan isn’t in the game dictating what they do. I didn’t know if Dartmouth would do it, but they did. Eventually the scouting report will change, somebody won’t spend the whole week scouting how to stop Dingle, and when that happens, hopefully Jordan will be ready.
I also think you are simply analyzing whether a team has the size to outplay Mosh based on whether or not they actually outplay him. Yet there is an argument that Columbia has had the least effective frontcourt on the season of the four teams we have played. But they were most effective against us, I think in part because our gameplan to exploit their limitations ended up allowing Harding to get a million offensive rebounds.
Edited by SomeGuy on 01-15-22 06:35 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Dartmouth 01-15-22 06:41 PM - Post#333357
In response to LyleGold
I like when we play small. We’ve been a little hesitant to do it, but Martz, Monroe, and Williams playing together for a stretch works for me. Admittedly, I didn’t think we could get away without any of Mosh, Martz, or Spinoso out there, but Laczkowski did a quietly adequate job (and had one serious big rebound).
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Dartmouth 01-15-22 06:48 PM - Post#333358
In response to SomeGuy
Monroe is one of my favorite Quakers because of his versatility. He defends and rebounds in key situations like nobody else on our roster, and is starting to develop a mid-range shot. I wish he’d play more or even start.
Jelani is right up there for me, too. The guy has put every ounce of effort into every moment he’s on the court as if he’s trying to squeeze a career out of a single season.
We are far from being as Dingle dependent as some people say. Let’s hope opponents think we are.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1124
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-15-22 07:07 PM - Post#333361
In response to LyleGold
I love watching Monroe. And not sure what he did in the interim, but his free throw shooting (not just the results) looked much better this game. That is a necessity for how he plays.
And if this is the unathletic Jelani showing up on both ends of the floor, he would have terrorized the league if he had only, say one major knee injury.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32686
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-15-22 09:11 PM - Post#333370
In response to 91Quake
Game Story:
https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/penn/p enn-...
Game Photos:
https://www.inquirer.com/photo/photos-penns-78 -68-...
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Dartmouth 01-15-22 10:10 PM - Post#333373
In response to palestra38
Wow, the Jelani photos are just unbelievable. The guy’s an absolute monster!
Jelani spends as much time on the floor as Lefko did, except he does it face first.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1878
Reg: 11-29-04
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01-16-22 03:29 AM - Post#333377
In response to LyleGold
I liked Jelani‘s effort and leadership out there. That play where he saved an out of bounds ball off of Dartmouth really fired up the team. There was a play that stuck out to me in the second half. He made a great move and had a wide opening to the hoop. Instead of taking it hard, he paused and looked for a pass. No one moved to the hoop and He eventually made the basket. It was overall good play, but he let the defense back into it. I’m pretty sure his pre-injury self would have hammered a slam.
That was a good second half. The team is pretty much what we expected. They are competitive, but not blowing teams away. They’ll lose a stinker to a bad team, but will compete against the good ones. I think they will make the Ivy tournament, but nothing is assured. Any team can win the tournament this year.
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OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts: 639
Age: 66
Reg: 02-18-18
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Re: Dartmouth 01-16-22 09:58 AM - Post#333384
In response to LyleGold
Wow, the Jelani photos are just unbelievable. The guy’s an absolute monster!
Jelani spends as much time on the floor as Lefko did, except he does it face first.
Agree. Mr. Hustle.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1124
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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Re: Dartmouth 01-16-22 10:32 AM - Post#333387
In response to Go Green
We're a shooting team. If our threes aren't dropping, we have a hard time winning.
I didn't see the game. But looking at the write-ups, it appears that we went cold and/or Penn defended us extremely well for an eight-to-ten minute stretch in the second half.
That appeared to be the difference here.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-16-22 10:38 AM - Post#333388
In response to Penndemonium
The best part of that play was that Dartmouth had run a guy around a screen and had an open cutter to the basket, and Jelani recognized where it was going and got his hand in the passing lane. Preventing the easy basket was a great play in and of itself. Out-hustling the passer (i think Adelekun) to the deflected ball and spiking it off him to get possession took it off the charts.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Dartmouth 01-16-22 11:21 AM - Post#333391
In response to Go Green
In the stretch where Penn took the lead and extended it to 10, I believe Dartmouth went nearly 4 minutes without a field goal attempt (they did get to the line a few times in that period). So not a question of cold shooting so much as not shooting. They did miss some free throws. But the turnovers during a stretch where Penn wasn’t missing did Dartmouth in, I think.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1117
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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01-17-22 10:47 AM - Post#333460
In response to Chip Bayers
Who was playing in crunch time on Saturday?
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 6997
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Dartmouth 01-17-22 11:15 AM - Post#333464
In response to UPIA1968
Who was playing in crunch time on Saturday?
Don’t mistake a coach riding a hot hand in a brief stretch of a single game for evidence that the rotation has changed. The particular lineup SD had on the floor at that point was cooking, and Slajchert had hit a couple of hoops in a row as part of it.
Apart from some offense-defense swapping between Monroe and the foul-plagued Martz, for a good 4+ minutes he didn’t mess with the unit which was opening up a multi-possession lead in a half that had been touch-and-go up to that point.
Edited by Chip Bayers on 01-17-22 11:16 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3765
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-17-22 03:47 PM - Post#333501
In response to Chip Bayers
I noticed that Andrew Lazckowski (sp?) played significant minutes at key points in the game. Perhaps we'll see more of him. He seems to be the kind of player the coach likes. That sophomore class that so many pronounced a bust before any of them had a chance to actually play might not turn out to be so bad after all.
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