sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1339
Reg: 12-08-04
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01-19-22 11:45 PM - Post#333755
In response to Tiger69
I think I may have stumbled onto a Columbia message board.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-19-22 11:54 PM - Post#333757
In response to Tiger69
Not to pile on against my Penn brethren, but I actually think it was to Penn’s advantage that the refs allowed a lot of contact. Yes, the calls were a little uneven, but the main thing was that they didn’t call much of anything. That allowed Mosh and Martz to be extremely physical with Tosan, which impacted him greatly (and probably led to a couple of those travels).
I kept the sound on (which I think was rare among Penn fans).. There was actually a travel call on someone (Langborg?) where in real time Savage was outraged by the call. In exasperation, he says “look at this” as they show the replay. Replay finishes. And then he says, “actually, that was definitely a travel.” At least one instance of objectivity.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4894
Reg: 02-04-06
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01-20-22 03:51 AM - Post#333763
In response to SomeGuy
Savage also flagged a few cases where he thought the Tigers committed fouls that weren’t called..IMO he biggest bias is favoring offensive scorers—he is prone to mention lower-body contact by defenders but overlook pushoffs and hooks by dribblers. He tends to complain about games where the defense dominates.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 406
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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01-20-22 10:37 AM - Post#333768
In response to SRP
Some Guy is right. If the refs had called the game more
Tightly, Tosan would have lived at the line, and Penn
would have had real foul trouble with its more
"Physical" bigs.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2801
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-20-22 10:48 AM - Post#333771
In response to LocalTiger
Given Tosan’s vulnerability at the foul line, fouling him might not have been a bad strategy. We shall see him at the foul line a lot this season. We can only hope that his foul line accuracy improves.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-20-22 11:24 AM - Post#333773
In response to LocalTiger
Only caveat is that Penn’s strategy probably changes if the game is called differently. I’m sure Mosh sees that he’s allowed to put a hand on Tosan with no call, so he keeps doing it. And then he puts two hands. Still no call. Ok, I’ll play that way. If it gets called, he stops.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21081
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-20-22 12:06 PM - Post#333774
In response to SomeGuy
We'll agree to disagree here. At least for the first 10+ minutes, most of Penn's possessions were in the low post/inside. There was repeated body contact on shots up close--these were not ticky tack fouls out on the perimeter. No fouls were called, both on misses and where an "and 1" was in order.
So Princeton got to have its cake and eat it, too. Deny the 3 and be allowed to play as physical as it wanted inside without getting called for any foul violations.
I think it was something like 12 minutes before there was any foul called on Princeton, and at some point the discrepancy was something like 5 to 1.
This hurt Penn a lot more than Princeton simply because Princeton did not rely on the inside game nearly as much as Penn did.
In any event, as the game wore on there were more bad forced shots by Penn, so this was not a game long dynamic. But Penn deserved better early on--if nothing else to at least get a few Tigers in foul trouble.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2801
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-20-22 12:32 PM - Post#333776
In response to penn nation
Surely the refs were intimidated by the large, hostile Jadwin crowd.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21081
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-20-22 12:40 PM - Post#333777
In response to Tiger69
Surely the refs were intimidated by the large, hostile Jadwin crowd.
I don't think Jadwin has ever really been known for that anyways, at least in terms of the fans. The weird layout of the structure, yes, in terms of affecting player shots given the background.
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mmp629
Junior
Posts: 259
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-20-22 01:30 PM - Post#333783
In response to penn nation
I watched the end of the Rutgers-Iowa game last night: game was tied and Rutgers got put on the free throw line with 2 seconds left...one of the Big Ten analysts after the game said that even if it was a terrible call by the refs, if you are going to win on the road, you could use a 10 point lead near the end. Every team has ups and downs with referees.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 406
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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01-20-22 01:37 PM - Post#333785
In response to mmp629
I watched the video again. Princeton, as it has all season,
Was allowing drives without help or fouling while sticking on
3 point shooters.
Penn was pushing Tosan out of his effective zone.
Princeton found other ways to score as the refs let them play at both ends. Penn did not.
End of story.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21081
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-20-22 02:04 PM - Post#333791
In response to mmp629
Penn at home recently got pounded by Columbia on the offensive end. The foul disparity was appropriate. Zero complaints from any of us on the Penn side about that.
In the early going in the game at Jadwin Penn was the more dominant team inside. It did not last for the whole game but it was nonetheless there.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2801
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-20-22 02:28 PM - Post#333794
In response to penn nation
Of course, you realize, PN, that Princeton was deprived by COVID of the A.O.s,* the loudest and most fanatic element of its home court advantage.
* Angry Octogenarians
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21081
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-20-22 02:36 PM - Post#333796
In response to Tiger69
OK, you win.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4894
Reg: 02-04-06
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01-20-22 09:50 PM - Post#333827
In response to penn nation
Henderson coaches how not to foul. I was impressed by the Tigers' discipline in going straight up in the air as a help defender, not initiating contact with the body, etc. PU generally doesn't foul very much.
In this game, the refs were being pretty lax overall, so there might have been a few more plays than usual on both sides of the court where more could have been called, but to suggest that just because you go into the post you're entitled to foul calls is wrong.
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