Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 587
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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01-23-22 08:13 AM - Post#334120
In response to Chip Bayers
when are we going to be allowed back in the palestra?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32910
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-23-22 08:32 AM - Post#334121
In response to Charlie Fog
It appears that all you have to do is donate and join the Above the Rim Club. Those guys were all there yesterday.
So $2500 will do it. Don't know how that is consistent with keeping everyone out for reasons of public health, but that's what is happening.
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 587
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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01-23-22 09:35 AM - Post#334124
In response to palestra38
that is ridiculous if true
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-23-22 09:48 AM - Post#334125
In response to Charlie Fog
It’s 100% true. I identified at least a dozen well known, long time Penn fans seated courtside. All of them are Above the Rim Club members and none of them has any personal relationship with current Penn players. Penn’s disgraceful public stance of excluding the general public under the guise of public health, but allowing in its high paying donors, is worse than hypocritical. It’s dishonest and possibly a sanitary risk. It’s even worse than Princeton’s ridiculous policy of allowing only its own students, staff, and players’ families because at least they admit what they are doing. Penn is just lying about it.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4370
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-23-22 10:17 AM - Post#334127
In response to LyleGold
Everyone obviously is glad that Jordan Dingle had a big game. He is clearly our best player and yesterday was the best player on the court for either team.
He’s been in a little bit of a funk. I actually blame SD a bit for the way he’s handled Jordan’s playing time. It started against Columbia.
Jordan is our horse. When you have a horse, it’s best to ride that horse. If he has an uneven 1st 5 minutes, you let him sit for a couple and then put him back in and tell him to go to work.
The same people who complain about shot selection seem very happy when the ball goes in or he gets to the line.
Jordan should be taking 20 shots a game on this team. If a team overcompensates for him, others clearly need to fill in.
Our defense is what it is. Penn players grinded against Yale, but good players get penetration and we have very limited rim protection. The key for Penn is to score the ball. As I mentioned before 75 points seems to be the magic number. I don’t see us getting there without Dingle leading the offense for most of the game.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32910
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-23-22 10:24 AM - Post#334128
In response to AsiaSunset
Agree 100%. But I believe that we can improve on the defensive boards...we just need more aggressiveness. Smith and Slajchert both had balls ripped away from them after they had rebounds--that cannot happen. If the refs aren't calling fouls on the boards, we need to toughen up and give as much as we are taking.
But Dingle is great--probably the best player in the League. He certainly can do things Swain cannot. And we have to ride a player like that. we need to cut back on allowing Mosh to go 1 on 1, however.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21311
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-23-22 10:28 AM - Post#334129
In response to palestra38
But Dingle is great--probably the best player in the League. He certainly can do things Swain cannot. And we have to ride a player like that. we need to cut back on allowing Mosh to go 1 on 1, however.
I'm not sure I fully agree. We had a great player in AJ as well. But he only became great when he got better at recognizing the double teams and getting the ball to open teammates.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32910
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-23-22 10:30 AM - Post#334130
In response to penn nation
Dingle can do things AJ could not, especially in the open court. AJ was a great Ivy center. Dingle is a great player, period.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21311
Reg: 12-02-04
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Yale
01-23-22 10:34 AM - Post#334131
In response to palestra38
Dingle can do things AJ could not, especially in the open court. AJ was a great Ivy center. Dingle is a great player, period.
Agree that if Dingle is in the open court to ride him. But when opponents game plan to shut him down in the half court he and the team need to adjust.
Edited by penn nation on 01-23-22 10:35 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32910
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Yale
01-23-22 10:43 AM - Post#334133
In response to penn nation
They shouldn't be able to do it because Slajchert is also very tough in the half court if not doubled and Charles, Smith and Martz are all very effective 3 point shooters. Problem is we often have too many other guys taking too many shots, along with giving up too many second chances. But we have a mix of players that should be very tough to beat at our level....demonstrated by a beginning to end defeat of the consensus favorite.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8347
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Yale
01-23-22 10:45 AM - Post#334134
In response to LyleGold
You really think letting those guys in helps give us a home court advantage? Seriously? You know who they are. They sit there and make about as much noise as I do when I’m asleep - and I don’t even snore. It’s just more hypocrisy coming out of our athletic department.
What? Did you miss hearing Stan screaming for a 3-second call?
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Yale
01-23-22 10:49 AM - Post#334135
In response to Streamers
It was muffled by his mask.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21311
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Yale
01-23-22 10:50 AM - Post#334136
In response to palestra38
I'd be interested to see a breakdown here, but at least in my faulty memory Slajchert and Dingle aren't often on the court at the same time.
They shouldn't be able to do it because Slajchert is also very tough in the half court if not doubled and Charles, Smith and Martz are all very effective 3 point shooters. Problem is we often have too many other guys taking too many shots, along with giving up too many second chances. But we have a mix of players that should be very tough to beat at our level....demonstrated by a beginning to end defeat of the consensus favorite.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8347
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-23-22 11:00 AM - Post#334137
In response to palestra38
Dingle can do things AJ could not, especially in the open court. AJ was a great Ivy center. Dingle is a great player, period.
Can we stop overthinking things? We count on DIngle as much as we counted on AJ. When you lean on a hero, there is going to be some hero ball and all that goes with it. When the opposition overplays your hero, the hero needs to dish. AJ mastered that over 4 years. Dingle likely will too. There is little on a court that kid cannot do.
Also, can we give SD a little credit. I thought he has his best game of the season yesterday.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Yale
01-23-22 11:03 AM - Post#334138
In response to palestra38
So you don’t want Dingle to improve his passing (or even think about it) off of penetration? You think he has a mature game that has reached its peak? The fact that our best player has significant margin to develop into a potentially transformational one is cause for optimism. Taking a “Let Dingle be Dingle” approach won’t get him there.
I think the AJ analogy is accurate. The great center vs. great Ivy player is a difference without a distinction. (Or is it the other way around?) For Dingle to become a great leader who helps raise the team to its maximum level, he’ll have to find ways to involve them more. That will actually help open things up for him, as well. That’s what AJ did.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-23-22 11:09 AM - Post#334139
In response to Streamers
Great point about SD, Steve. If he had been summarily fired after the Princeton game, as the rising tide of hysteria began to demand, we wouldn’t be bickering over whether Dingle’s 31 point performance was proof that he should be left alone.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Yale
01-23-22 11:12 AM - Post#334140
In response to penn nation
Two big reasons why Penn won :
- Foul shooting. Penn was 85% while Yale was 68%
- Penn had only 6 turnovers. Only 3 were by the players (Dingle, Slajchert, Smith, Williams) who were running point. Dingle's 2 TOs with a 42% usage rate is pretty remarkable.
Speaking of which, 30% is an ultra-high usage rate; 42% is crazy. I don't blame Dingle but it is a limiting factor of the team that he seemingly has to carry this heavy a load on offense. I have no solution because I haven't found evidence that a lower usage rate from Dingle results in better things out of Penn.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-23-22 11:26 AM - Post#334141
In response to TheLine
Under-rated piece of Dingle’s play yesterday was his season high 6 defensive rebounds. We need all of our guards hitting the glass like that, given that’s one of the team’s biggest weaknesses on D.
Speaking of which, in conference-only play Penn currently has the second-best defense in the league per KenPom, behind only Yale (which has more randomness in their numbers since they’ve only played half the number of games the Quakers have so far). First in 2-pt. % allowed, 2nd in 3-pt. % (On the randomness front, #1 Yale through three games has an outrageous 21% allowed on 3s.)
Keep that up during the road-heavy second half of the schedule and they’re in the playoff.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21311
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Yale
01-23-22 11:32 AM - Post#334142
In response to LyleGold
It is indeed a difference without distinction in that AJ led the team in quite a number of statistical categories.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-23-22 11:36 AM - Post#334143
In response to Chip Bayers
I think that answer to the 42% usage rate lies in the other players.
Martz needs to stay on the court- other teams are taking him outside with faster players and then he picks up cheap fouls.
I loved an aggressive Jelani on the offensive end but it comes and goes.
Smith should be demanding the ball more. Maybe tough to do as a freshman?
Jonah Charles looks better on both ends when not just standing still at the 3 point line.
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