candyfan
Masters Student
Posts: 459
Reg: 01-10-10
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03-04-22 08:24 AM - Post#338027
Lost by 28 to Colgate? Give 'em credit for beating Lafayette x3, although both teams tanked this year!
Both Colgate and Boston U. have benefited from transfers and 4th yr/Grad players. The top is a LONG way off for Bucknell and our tradition of winning basketball.
KUDOS to the Bison Girls & Trevor Woodruff for their sterling season, by the way!
Woodruff knows how to recruit. The Boys Team needs to take notice.
Colgate has something Bucknell does NOT have, a pair of Forwards who can shoot inside, outside and rebound!
1. Unless a couple of great Forwards transfer in (you listening Paul Harrison ?) Bucknell is in for an even worse 2022-23 season, N.Davis or no N.Davis.
2. And/Or unless Davis and staff bring in at least two or three HOT Freshmen, (read READY 2 PLAY), Bucknell is in for an even worse 2022-23 season, N.Davis or no N.Davis.
3. All of this assumes that Rice and Screen don't transfer out?
That's how I see it. Your comments welcome.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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03-04-22 08:56 PM - Post#338087
In response to candyfan
I think next year is virtually certain to be disastrous. Talent level will be below-average and coaching will again be awful. The only thing that will turn around this sinking ship is a coaching change. Right now a good young coach might be able to turn it around in three years. But with another year of ND, it will likely be a five year job. And it won't be easy to find good coaches who even want to apply.
I am planning to email Jermaine Truax and also Tim Pavlechko, who is #2 in the AD office and is in charge of overseeing men's basketball. I also plan to CC Dr. Bravman to let him know how many alums are very unhappy with what has been the biggest generator of positive PR of anything Bucknell has done. I am also going to let my displeasure be shown in my donations, although unfortunately I am not a Bill Graham level of donor.
I encourage others to email as well. Here are a few addresses, but the more recipients the better:
Truax: jmt027@bucknell.edu
Pavlechko: tpavlech@bucknell.edu
Bravman: john.bravman@bucknell.edu
Here are a few facts and observations about the program's DISASTROUS direction that some fans might want to use (although preferably in their own words):
1. In the three years that Bucknell has fielded teams with only Nathan Davis’ recruits, it has ranked 242nd (2020), 276th (2021), and 336th (2022), per Pomeroy. THOSE ARE THE THREE WORST RANKINGS FOR BUCKNELL SINCE SCHOLARSHIPS BEGAN.
2. Bucknell has now had three consecutive losing seasons in the Patriot League. That is the first time since 1972 that the team has had three consecutive losing seasons in league play. It should be noted that after the 1972 season, Bucknell wisely made a coaching change.
3. Record in the Patriot League this year was 5-13. That is Bucknell's WORST record ever in the 32 year history of the Patriot League.
4. Bucknell is currently ranked 338th in the nation (Pomeroy). That is the worst ranking in its history, with the exception of an even lower ranking a few weeks ago.
5. The Patriot League this year had its weakest season ever (per Pomeroy and others), which makes the disastrous results even worse.
6. The defense, which very much reflects the ability of the coaching staff, ended up ranked #356 in the nation, third from the bottom. The only two teams in the entire nation who were slightly worse were a first-year D1 program and an under-funded HBCU school that has likely been the worst program in the nation over the past two decades.
7. Bucknell forced turnovers this year at a rate that puts it in the bottom six in the nation. It is the worst rate of forced turnovers in Bucknell history.
8. On offense, the team had the ball stolen at a rate that also puts it in the bottom six in the nation. This is another reflection of coaching, and it is the worst in Bucknell history.
9. Nathan Davis, without question, inherited the best collection of talent in the history of the Patriot League (Chris Hass, Dom Hoffman, Ryan Frazier, Stephen Brown, Nana Foulland, Zach Thomas, Nate Sestina, Kimbal Mackenzie, etc). Viewed in terms of All-Patriot League honors, no group of players on a roster has ever come close to the talent on this team. Any coach in America could have succeeded with this talent level, and ND did. However he left one championship (2019) on the table, and since he has had only his own recruits, results have been poor.
10. Since Nathan Davis arrived, the players he recruited have earned exactly ZERO 1st team All-Patriot League awards. And only two recruits made any level of All-Patriot League. Compare that to the recruiting of Pat Flannery or Dave Paulsen.
11. As you know, Bucknell has had an appalling rate of outbound transfers, ones who had not yet graduated, over the past few years: Sotos, Spear, Ellis, Turner, Latimer. That is five in less than three years. During Pat Flannery’s tenure, there was one scholarship transfer. During Dave Paulsen’s tenure, there was one transfer. Yes, the environment has changed somewhat, but other Bucknell teams – relative to the number of participants – have not had this problem.
12. Bucknell has been ranked as the best basketball coaching spot in the PL by fellow coaches. And it clearly is – or was. It is a place where winning should not be difficult, having the best arena, the top attendance for many years, great basketball tradition, and great fan support.
13. Despite the above, Davis’ recruiting has been mediocre and, sadly, it is getting worse. He has thrown away a couple of scholarships on spring signees who had no real offers despite being in their fifth year of high school competition. Even the biggest optimist couldn’t claim that the players being brought into the program can lead the program to winning PL records, let alone a league championship.
14. Bucknell led the PL in attendance in every year since 2005 – UNTIL THIS YEAR.
15. In 2016, Bucknell’s average home attendance was 2867. In 2019 (the last year when the team was carried by Paulsen recruits), the average attendance was 2635. In 2020, it was 2230. But this year the average home attendance was 945. And in the second half of the season, there often were less than 500 fans actually in the seats. Navy’s attendance was virtually the same in 2020 and 2022.
16. A few Nathan Davis apologists will blame covid for the massive drop in attendance, and it may well be a minor factor. However, note that the 2022 attendance for Lafayette, which had a worse season this year, was about the same as in 2020.
17. Part of the problem with attendance is that the coaching staff has treated the fans with disrespect. Not once has there ever been any acknowledgment of the fans, home or away. Nathan Davis has frequently gone out of his way to avoid Bucknell fans. At away games, well before game time, he has pretended that the groups of fans in orange didn’t exist. Also his attitude towards fans at the disastrous “chalk talk” sessions four years ago alienated a number of loyal fans.
18. One example of the above comes from one of Bucknell’s biggest fans and donors: “I spent a lot of money to fly to Detroit to support the team when they faced Michigan State. Bucknell had a very good crowd there, considering the location and Bucknell’s small size. Following the game, a relatively close loss, the coaching staff raced to the locker room with absolutely no acknowledgement of the crowd or a thank you. Fortunately Kimbal Mackenzie showed a lot more class and a lot more brains than the coaching staff, as he led the team over to the Bucknell section and saluted them with the soccer-type of applause. Kimbal showed great class in a difficult situation, but it’s too bad the coaching staff did the opposite. Most coaches would have recognized their fans.”
19. Another example from a very loyal fan: “I drove a long distance to support the team at Lafayette a few years ago. Due to light traffic, we arrived almost 90 minutes before game time and were waiting in the lobby – four of us in orange Bison shirts. Nathan Davis suddenly walked out and was headed across the lobby. Spotting a group of Bison fans, he pretended we didn’t exist and veered over to the other side of the lobby to pass us. It is likely any other coach in America would have at least said something like: “Hi. Thanks for coming out tonight.” Most would have stopped for a brief conversation. It’s a huge contrast between his reaction to fans and what we would have seen from Pat Flannery or Charlie Woollum.”
20. Other Bucknell basketball teams and coaches of other sports have made an effort to reach out to fans, but unfortunately that hasn’t happened at all with men’s basketball. Only John Griffin showed any interest or appreciation of the fans.
21. Based on an unscientific poll of season ticket holders, I think season ticket sales, which have fallen by more than half, will fall at least another 30% next season, maybe more. The great majority of the serious fans want a coaching change, and their future donations may be affected by more unacceptable basketball.
22. Based solely on the attendance drop, the disastrous performance of the program, largely attributable to Nathan Davis, has cost the program hundreds of thousands of dollars and will cost it a lot more. It is also going to show up in donations.
23. The program at present is a sinking ship that will likely be worse next year with the graduation of Andrew Funk, another mediocre recruiting class, and possibly more transfers. Right now, it would take a very good, young, energetic coach – one who can sell a vision of a turnaround- at least three years to right the ship. If Nathan Davis gets one more year at the helm, it will likely take five years.
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MrPhillie
Postdoc
Posts: 2757
Loc: NE PA
Reg: 07-14-08
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03-04-22 09:15 PM - Post#338088
In response to Bison137
137, I don’t know whether to applaud or cry after reading your post. If Davis returns, the apathy of Bucknell and the athletic department will be heard loud and clear.
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Paulie777
PhD Student
Posts: 1767
Reg: 11-11-07
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BU Basketball - where do we go fm here?
03-05-22 01:29 AM - Post#338092
In response to MrPhillie
137 nailed it with that post. I think point 23 sums it up very well. The only way to quickly get back in the game is to get a decent coach and land an excellent recruit or two. Otherwise its going to be a few bleak years for Bucknell basketball. I'm curious to see if the current players are going to stomach another year of this. If they can, I will support them the best I can. But they don't seem too happy right now.
Is Bucknell changing so much that we cannot even field a quality team? It used to come as a natural byproduct of the incredible Bucknell students and what they bring to the table. I want to fill them in as winners in my brackets in March and cheer the orange and blue on. Now they are on the outside looking in at the Patriot league tournament much less the big dance.
Edited by Paulie777 on 03-05-22 01:31 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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JVBison
Freshman
Posts: 6
Age: 70
Reg: 04-03-19
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Re: BU Basketball - where do we go fm here?
03-05-22 12:55 PM - Post#338103
In response to Paulie777
Thank you Paulie777, Bison137, HuskyColonial, and all of the other Bison Basketball fanatics who helped get me thru this dismal season. I just emailed the AD expressing my concerns in my owh words and I hope anyone else who cares about the program will do the same while it is top of mind.
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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03-05-22 07:08 PM - Post#338116
In response to JVBison
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know to what extent the transfer syndrome is coaching staff related as opposed to administration related , owing to the admins outdated policies towards athletes. Is it 100 % coaching, or can some of it be attributed to the admin as well. Living away from Lewisburg, pretty much all I know about Bucknell athletics comes from reading this board. Obviously those of you who get to see the team see things about the coaching staff that I don’t, such as the attitude toward the fans, and obviously you see that the fans are well aware this attitude as well.
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bisonmania
Masters Student
Posts: 920
Reg: 10-26-07
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03-05-22 08:04 PM - Post#338143
In response to bison63
Davis and his staff are very consistent! They look at the fans the same way before or after a game or if you run into them at Walmart. I am speaking from my own experience on this one. But I can tell you that I know of a number of other locals that have run in to Davis and others on the staff at different venues with same type of ignorance. They just do not care about the locals or the fans! Paulsen and his staff were completely opposite! Pat Flannery complete opposite. IMO the current staff has lost a lot of fan base just because of not caring about the local community at all!
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Scotty-14
Sophomore
Posts: 156
Age: 31
Reg: 10-10-18
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03-07-22 11:45 PM - Post#338394
In response to bisonmania
If anyone reaches out to the AD office, it is important to remind them that the $600,000~ or so extra dollars spent to pay ND and the prospective new coach for the last two years of ND's contract PALES in comparison to the indirect cost/s of our basketball program not winning games.
How many students don't apply in 2023, 2024, 2025?
How many alumni stop donating, or fail to pay pledged money?
How much more does it cost our Athletic department missing out on 2 CBS Sports games (PL Semis and Finals)?
What is the "cost" of missing the NCAA Tournament for the next 2,3,4,5,6 years?
What brilliant student who will become a mulit-millionaire donor in 2 decades chooses another school over Bucknell because are Basketball team is no longer exciting?
There are so many "expenses" that cannot be directly costed out on paper that running this program further into the ground creates.
Find the money, pay it out, and get this program back where it belongs.
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MrPhillie
Postdoc
Posts: 2757
Loc: NE PA
Reg: 07-14-08
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03-08-22 08:07 AM - Post#338403
In response to Scotty-14
If Bloomsburg can finally get rid of Sanow, then surely Bucknell can see they need to replace Davis.
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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03-10-22 05:34 PM - Post#338687
In response to MrPhillie
Got a quick response to my letter. While acknowledging that the current situation is untenable reading between the lines there isn’t going to be a change of coach. Did anybody else get that feeling.
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HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts: 1976
Age: 50
Reg: 02-17-12
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03-10-22 10:31 PM - Post#338700
In response to MrPhillie
Philly it’s actually more egregious for Bucknell to keeps Davis. Sanow is irrelevant to the success of D2 program with no real basketball tradition anyway.
That would be the deliberate destruction of Bloomsburg football which I can’t discuss here because it’s off topic, is so enraging to alumni, and no one at Bloomsburg apparently cares. The administration doesn’t care if they care or not but suck down all donor tax writeoffs.
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JVBison
Freshman
Posts: 6
Age: 70
Reg: 04-03-19
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03-11-22 03:26 PM - Post#338731
In response to bison63
Yes I received a timely response and I think there was agreement that the situation is unacceptable and I can draw no conclusion re what will be done to address it other than a full program review.
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Bison54
PhD Student
Posts: 1800
Reg: 11-18-09
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03-11-22 06:49 PM - Post#338738
In response to JVBison
Same here. Timely response that basically said that he and ND know there are issues. It sounded like a response with no response. It was, however, not an endorsement of the status quo nor of the coach's status, We will see.
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MrPhillie
Postdoc
Posts: 2757
Loc: NE PA
Reg: 07-14-08
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03-11-22 10:42 PM - Post#338753
In response to Bison54
I just sent my emails today. Can’t wait to see my sincere, heartfelt reply!
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BisonKid
Sophomore
Posts: 154
Reg: 01-26-06
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03-12-22 12:07 PM - Post#338771
In response to MrPhillie
The comments about Scooter Flannery and Charlie Woollum remind me of the road trip my buddies and I took in January 1983 to watch the Bison play Notre Dame. We made the drive on Route 80 through the snow in PA and OH and arrived at ND is great spirts. The Bison played well and kept the game close but lost to a stocked ND team. At the reception after the game, Coach Woollum thanked us for making the trip and asked if we had enough money to get back to Lewisburg saying "Do you guys have enough bread to get back home?" What a great guy!
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HoleinOne
Masters Student
Posts: 596
Loc: Bluffton, SC
Reg: 02-15-09
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03-13-22 09:00 AM - Post#338893
In response to BisonKid
Without invoking a cliche, Bucknell's focus is to educate and motivate students to be the best they can be. The mission statement speaks to "critical thinking and leadership." The current compromises in the basketball program in no way supports the aims and values of the University.
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Paulie777
PhD Student
Posts: 1767
Reg: 11-11-07
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03-13-22 12:28 PM - Post#338917
In response to HoleinOne
Without invoking a cliche, Bucknell's focus is to educate and motivate students to be the best they can be. The mission statement speaks to "critical thinking and leadership." The current compromises in the basketball program in no way supports the aims and values of the University.
It was nice to see Bucknell coach/employee Paulson believe in Muscala so much. The tall skinny kid developed into a a great college player and moved on to the pro game. Muscala did it on his own but the road might have been harder or even impassible without coach Paulson there to guide him. Flannery gave 100 percent until he couldn't go anymore. Davis is a great basketball coach and is all about the game but I'm just not sure he fits in to the Bucknell way of making the above average magical. So, where does Bucknell basketball go from here? The answer to that is decidedly, down.
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Bison7882
Junior
Posts: 253
Reg: 11-24-13
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03-13-22 08:05 PM - Post#339077
In response to BisonKid
Charlie Woollum is a real class act. He allowed me to be part of the Breakin' Bison family and I'll never forget it!
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Scotty-14
Sophomore
Posts: 156
Age: 31
Reg: 10-10-18
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03-15-22 10:19 PM - Post#339341
In response to Bison7882
Confirmed this staff will be back for next season. From my sources, next will be their last pending a complete turn around
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river rat
Sophomore
Posts: 187
Reg: 12-01-06
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03-17-22 02:48 AM - Post#339421
In response to Scotty-14
If admin is confident next season will be the staff's last,.that makes keeping them on for 22-23 doubly stupid.
The buyout cost to fire ND is chump change compared to all the money BU spends on the athletic budget. And all the money BU will loose in 22-23.by keeping the staff on.
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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03-17-22 10:55 AM - Post#339433
In response to river rat
I did not read Scotty’s post as saying the admin is confident next season will be their last. Like you say, if you already know your going to fire them, keeping them for a season is stupid. But I read the post prior to yours as saying they have 1 more chance. Not sure that is the right move, but it is definitely a Bucknell like move.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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03-17-22 11:53 AM - Post#339439
In response to bison63
I did not read Scotty’s post as saying the admin is confident next season will be their last. Like you say, if you already know your going to fire them, keeping them for a season is stupid. .
Yes, extremely stupid. And if Truax thinks the situation will suddenly turn around, then he probably should be fired also. My guess is that he knows ND should be fired, but he doesn’t have the clout and/or intestinal fortitude to get it done.
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Bison54
PhD Student
Posts: 1800
Reg: 11-18-09
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03-18-22 06:38 PM - Post#339544
In response to Bison137
For the long season of waiting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy84-RkssBM
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dirtynine
Sophomore
Posts: 127
Reg: 02-01-06
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03-18-22 07:17 PM - Post#339547
In response to Bison54
Watching the tourney? If you squint, you can pretend Cal St. Fullerton is Bucknell, trying to end Coach K’s career. Not looking great early, but hey.
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Bison89
Professor
Posts: 5370
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
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03-21-22 12:19 PM - Post#339701
In response to river rat
If admin is confident next season will be the staff's last,.that makes keeping them on for 22-23 doubly stupid.
The buyout cost to fire ND is chump change compared to all the money BU spends on the athletic budget. And all the money BU will loose in 22-23.by keeping the staff on.
Amen to that!
| New season, new team, new dream . . . |
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pjm_hoops
Sophomore
Posts: 151
Reg: 02-14-06
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03-25-22 02:30 PM - Post#339895
In response to Bison89
My two cents...
My son was accepted to Class of 2026. But he didn't even give Bucknell much consideration due to the situation with the Basketball and Football programs. He will be participating in both at another PA Liberal Arts College.
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