PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-07-22 04:01 PM - Post#338326
In response to palestra38
If awards were given per 40 min we’d have a whole different crew for all league. That’s not how it works. There’s a reason Manon is playing just 18 min a game. Probably his turnovers as p38 indicates. What’s that number for 40 min? Yikes.
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Tiger84
Senior
Posts: 379
Age: 61
Reg: 03-06-17
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy
03-07-22 06:27 PM - Post#338354
In response to rbg
I don't see Emsbo as first-team. I think you have to consider Mitchell and Chen as at least Second Team...one of Padilla, Turner, Chen or Mitchell could be first team as well. I am also not 100% sold on Hsu being first team, but won't be shocked if she is there.
I don't see Forbes being second team, but granted I only saw her against the Tigers. I think her brother Mason has a better chance of getting All-Ivy votes. And on the Tigers, I think Mitchell and Chen are ahead of Stone in terms of getting votes.
No objections to Clark or Obi as second team.
If Meyers doesn't win POY and win it unanimously, I would be shocked.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy
03-07-22 07:29 PM - Post#338357
In response to Tiger84
I honestly struggle with the men and women selections for 1st team and 2nd team. Majority of the picks suggested by several posters make good sense but there are very good arguments for various players.
Looking at it from only the Tigers' perspective, I would select Wright over Jaelin for 1st team based on Wright's rebounding and playing against the other team's best guard, sometimes not all that well --but very tough call.
As to the women, Mitchell is absolutely essential to the success of the Tigers. In a pick up game, I suspect that Carla would either take Meyers or Mitchell 1st then followed closely behind by Julia and either Stone or Chen as 4th/5th.
I understand that there are all types of legitimate compromises therefore the Tigers' women or men will not get 3 1st team players. When a team's average marin of winning is 27+ points, you may well have 3 1st team players unless you have Breanna Stewart on your team. It matters but really does not matter at the end of the day.
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IvyBballFan
Masters Student
Posts: 479
Age: 77
Loc: Central Florida
Reg: 11-19-09
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy
03-07-22 08:38 PM - Post#338366
In response to bradley
Looking at it from only the Tigers' perspective, I would select Wright over Jaelin for 1st team based on Wright's rebounding and playing against the other team's best guard, sometimes not all that well --but very tough call.
I second this. Ethan Wright, with 7.0RPG, is far and away the best rebounding guard in the league, and is actually the fourth-best rebounder in the whole league. Swain and Llewellyn, with just over 4RPG, are not even in the top twenty in the whole league.
Wright is not flashy, but he did many little things that contributed to the Tigers' winning the regular season. I think his overall versatility gives him the edge in the POY discussion.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-07-22 09:54 PM - Post#338374
In response to PennFan10
The reason Manon plays 18 per game is simply that Cornell chooses to play that way. He’s one of about 7 guys who basically play half the game. Nobody plays more than that.
Cornell will get represented on All-Ivy. Manon is the best guess, though it could be Dean Noll, too.
And you keep saying Earl won’t get COY. There is simply no way that a team that makes the Ivy tournament doesn’t get representation on All-Ivy somewhere.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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03-07-22 10:43 PM - Post#338387
In response to SomeGuy
Noah Kirkwood is a pretty strong rebounder. As Harvard’s on ball defender, he’s often away from the basket when a shot goes up.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-07-22 11:18 PM - Post#338391
In response to SomeGuy
Man on is 7th on the team in average minutes. Obviously Cornell plays 8 plus guys but 5 of them average 20+ and Manno isn’t one of them. The IL coaches aren’t voting players ROY based on stats per 40 min. They are going to vote the guys who are the best scorers regardless of minutes. Lilly is probably the guy and there is an argument for Slajchert. I don’t see a viable argument for Manon.
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SecS3
Junior
Posts: 246
Age: 75
Reg: 03-17-16
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy
03-08-22 12:39 AM - Post#338396
In response to Tiger84
I don't see Emsbo as a first team either. As someone said during the season, stars shine in big games and she certainly didn't shine in Yale's four biggest games. I think she replaces Clark on the second team. Also, Julia Cunningham is the defensive player of the year. She's become the reincarnation of Will Venable. Unless it's Ellie Mitchell. Her worth on the defensive end can't be put into stats.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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03-08-22 08:47 AM - Post#338406
In response to SecS3
Looking at the numbers, the defensive player of the year would be the entire Tigers' womens' team that has allowed 44 pts per game in league play. Knowing that will not happen, logically the defensive player of the year should come from the Tigers. Mitchell or Cunningham would be the obvious choices and either selection would be appropriate. Embso is a good defender and shot blocker --- Yale is the 3rd best defensive team in the IL but she is not the best defender in the league.
A compromise would be to have Cunningham and Emsbo 1st team with Mitchell as DPY. As previously stated, it is logical that a team with a 27 pt average margin of victory could easily have 3 first teamers but Mitchell is only a sophomore and her offensive numbers are no great shakes but she is a critical component to the Tigers success, i.e. 16 rebounds against Texas bigs that were 6'4 and 6'3. She would get the award for the number of times that she hits the floor hard per game.
At the end of the day, these awards are somewhat subjective and arbitrary but it is interesting.
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Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts: 411
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-22 08:52 AM - Post#338407
In response to SecS3
Good analysis in the Spec showing how dominant Tigers WBB has been this season
https://www.columbiaspectator.com/sports/2022/03/0...
Agree with the comments about Ellie Mitchell being 1st Team along with Julia and Abby, and Kaitlyn 2nd team with Grace at least HM. And also agree with Julia as DPOY. I know Harmoni Turner had a monster freshman year for Harvard, but Kaitlyn was the starting PG on the league’s best team as a rookie, she needs to be in that conversation too.
With Meyers as a POY lock that all seems a little excessive (3 first-teamers, all starters getting league honors, DPOY, ROY) … but this team was head and shoulders above the rest of the Ivies this year.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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03-08-22 09:46 AM - Post#338411
In response to Tiger81
If Coach Berube selected a pick up team, I suspect that her first pick would be Mitchell. Berube was a "glue" type player at UCONN, similar to the role played by Mitchell.
It was interesting that the ACC Coach of the Year stated that the "best" player on his team was selected as 2nd team all ACC even though he had ACC Player of the Year on his team. Awards are awards but coaches really know.
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SecS3
Junior
Posts: 246
Age: 75
Reg: 03-17-16
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03-08-22 10:39 AM - Post#338421
In response to Tiger81
There's a reason why Princeton dominated the league this year. They had most of the best players and deserve to be recognized as such. However, since we now live in a participation trophy world, the honors will undoubtedly be spread around.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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03-08-22 11:35 AM - Post#338423
In response to SecS3
You have accurately defined the principle, participation trophy award, behind IvyMadness but at least it is a partial participation award, 4 out 8 vs. 8 out of teams -- although it will probably morph into 8 out of 8 in the near future.
When a 16 seed team wins ivyMadness plays a Gonzaga type team, it will be a reality check but nothing will change due to the underlying principles of IvyMadness.
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Tiger84
Senior
Posts: 379
Age: 61
Reg: 03-06-17
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03-08-22 01:06 PM - Post#338426
In response to Tiger81
The possessions estimate the Columbia Spectator used should use a slightly different formula, to account for the fact that the women's game no longer has 1-and-1s.
I also question whether the Tiger starters will see materially different minutes. Coach Berube likes to give players breathers on one side or the other of the end of the first and third quarters, to allow for extended rest and fresher legs. If the Harvard game is a blowout then maybe she empties the bench at 4 minutes rather than 2 minutes left. Connolly, Nweke and Plank will get their minutes, and maybe Weger if Carla sees a matchup she can exploit, but unless there's foul trouble don't expect anything more than that.
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Tiger84
Senior
Posts: 379
Age: 61
Reg: 03-06-17
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy
03-08-22 01:36 PM - Post#338429
In response to bradley
3 teammates first team can happen.
When the Tigers went 30-0, Dietrick, Wheatley and Tarakchian were all first team--and deservedly so.
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1171
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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03-08-22 04:00 PM - Post#338441
In response to Tiger84
Apropos of nothing, I can't help but here Mick Jagger's voice when I read the name Berube.
Berube!
(Shattered. Shattered.)
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 680
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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03-08-22 04:06 PM - Post#338442
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Results are in!
https://brownbears.com/news/2022/3/8/mens-ba sketba...
PLAYER OF THE YEAR
*Tosan Evbuomwan, Princeton (Jr., F – Newcastle, England)
DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR
Jaylan Gainey, Brown (Sr., F – Greensboro, N.C.)
ROOKIE OF THE YEAR
Kino Lilly Jr., Brown (Fr., G – Glenn Dale, Md.)
COACH OF THE YEAR
Brian Earl, Cornell
FIRST TEAM ALL-IVY
*Noah Kirkwood, Harvard (Sr., G – Ottawa, Ontario)
*Jordan Dingle, Penn (Sr., G – Valley Stream, N.Y.)
*Tosan Evbuomwan, Princeton (Jr., F – Newcastle, England)
*Azar Swain, Yale (Sr., G – Brockton, Mass.)
Jaelin Llewellyn, Princeton (Sr., G – Mississauga, Ontario)
SECOND TEAM ALL-IVY^
Tamenang Choh, Brown (Gr., F – Lowell, Mass.)
Jalen Gabbidon, Yale (Sr., G – Harrisburg, Pa.)
Ethan Wright, Princeton (Sr., G – Newton Centre, Mass.)
Brendan Barry, Dartmouth (5th., G – Fair Haven, N.J.)
Jaylan Gainey, Brown (Sr., F – Greensboro, N.C.)
Dean Noll, Cornell (Sr., G – Medford, N.J.)
HONORABLE MENTION
Aaryn Rai, Dartmouth (5th, F – Markham, Ontario)
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-22 04:10 PM - Post#338445
In response to iogyhufi
While I think Henderson should have been COY, I guess if you only have an extra guy added to the 2nd team All Ivy, it's the coach who got you there.
Congrats to the winners. I like the first team a lot--would be fun to see them take on some other conference all star teams.
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 336
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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03-08-22 04:35 PM - Post#338452
In response to palestra38
Henderson did as good a job this year as he did in 2017. 12-2 was a remarkable accomplishment. He deserves to be COY as much as he did when he went 14-0. Happy for Brian Earl of course. He plays a bad hand as well as one can.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 680
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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03-08-22 05:02 PM - Post#338460
In response to ToothlessTiger
You have to give it to Brian Earl - he's the coach of the only team to split with both Yale and Princeton this year, and both of those came at times when Cornell was particularly in need. Plus, as P38 noted, his cup was hardly running over with top-end talent this year.
Henderson did a fine job, but he also did so with a lot of experienced, talented senior leadership. Earl had to throw this together on the fly, and he managed to hang blow for blow with every other team in the league. He's earned it.
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