ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 332
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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03-09-22 09:34 AM - Post#338498
In response to SomeGuy
I view the pick of Donahue as COY as hopelessly flawed. If we are using NFL coaching references the one that comes to mind is Johnny Unitas on Don Shula: "I wouldn't cross the street to urinate on him if he was on fire."
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 332
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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03-09-22 09:34 AM - Post#338499
In response to ToothlessTiger
The editor got me. He did not say urinate
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy 03-09-22 10:59 AM - Post#338505
In response to Vonsid
While I would have given the COY to Henderson also, it's because that to me, there should be a presumption that the winning team's coach gets the COY absent something far more compelling than a Cornell team going 7-7 in the league. However, I don't think he necessarily outrecruited and outcoached the league--he had a remarkably healthy group of seniors--which is what wins in this League. They primarily were better one on one players and were more experienced than the opposition, which suffered heavy losses from the missed year, Covid and injuries. I imagine Yale would have finished first had it not lost Atkinson (and/or had Bruner sat out a year and played for Yale). Congrats to Henderson and Princeton, but the real recruiting and coaching test for Princeton will be next year, which it will be Tosan and a bunch of unknowns. We'll get to that after the Ivy and March Madness.
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 332
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy 03-09-22 11:15 AM - Post#338509
In response to palestra38
Schwieger and Derosiers were losses as well who might have made the Tigers better.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-09-22 11:16 AM - Post#338510
In response to ToothlessTiger
Why do you hate Steve Donahue?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy 03-09-22 11:19 AM - Post#338511
In response to ToothlessTiger
As good as Atkinson and Bruner? And of course, Harvard had pretty much everyone break down over their past 4 seasons. No one out-recruits Amaker.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2262
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-09-22 11:29 AM - Post#338512
In response to ToothlessTiger
"I wouldn't cross the street to urinate on him if he was on fire."
Actually, "down his throat", not "on him".
I was shocked by this quotation, as I once had the opportunity to sit and talk with Johny U and Brooks Robinson together. I thought both to be true old school gentlemen, but the quotation is in fact correct (sorry I doubted you), and apparantly there was no love lost between Unitas and Don Shula.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 679
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy 03-09-22 11:44 AM - Post#338514
In response to palestra38
Yeah, Atkinson was HM All-ACC (and truly, he could've been more if Mike Brey had been forced to use him properly earlier in the season instead of letting his chump guards shoot 20 shots per game each) and Bruner was a starter for a top-ten team, whereas Desrosiers was HM All-Big West and Schwieger came off the bench for Loyola Chicago. No offense to those two, but there's really no comparison there.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy 03-09-22 11:46 AM - Post#338515
In response to gokinsmen
I don’t think Nweke entering the transfer portal is indicative of much of anything. I assume a lot of seniors (including some of Princeton’s) will do so. They all have another year of eligibility (at least). Those who want to keep playing will be able to find a place to do so.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3988
Reg: 11-23-04
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy 03-09-22 01:32 PM - Post#338525
In response to SomeGuy
I suspect that Gainey will be transferring as well.
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 332
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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03-09-22 03:05 PM - Post#338548
In response to SomeGuy
Do not hate SD. I just do not think he is in the COY conversation rhis year. Actually I think he is an excellent coach
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-09-22 04:24 PM - Post#338563
In response to ToothlessTiger
Ok. I guess I misunderstood the meaning of the Unitas/Shula quote.
And for the record, I will reiterate that I think Henderson is a tremendous coach — and has out-coached Donahue in 6 straight head-to-heads. So when I say I go Earl, Donahue, Henderson for this year, I am just ranking coaches that I think are all deserving in various ways. Lots of arguments to be made in all directions.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-09-22 04:31 PM - Post#338566
In response to SomeGuy
Donahue clearly lost out in the last 3 games. Had Penn tied for the championship, he likely would have won.
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Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-09-22 05:04 PM - Post#338572
In response to palestra38
2022 All-Ivy Women’s Basketball
PLAYER OF THE YEAR
*Abby Meyers, Princeton (Sr., G — Potomac, Md.)
DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR
Ellie Mitchell, Princeton (So., F — Chevy Chase, Md.)
ROOKIE OF THE YEAR
Harmoni Turner, Harvard (Fr., G — Mansfield, Texas)
COACH OF THE YEAR
Carla Berube, Princeton
FIRST TEAM ALL-IVY
*Abby Meyers, Princeton (Sr., G — Potomac, Md.)
*Camilla Emsbo, Yale (Jr., F — Lakewood, Colo.)
Kaitlyn Davis, Columbia (Jr., G/F — Conn.)
Julia Cunningham, Princeton (Jr., G — Watchung, N.J.)
Kayla Padilla, Penn (Jr., G — Torrance, Calif.)
SECOND TEAM ALL-IVY
Abbey Hsu, Columbia (So., G — Parkland, Fla.)
Harmoni Turner, Harvard (Fr., G — Mansfield, Texas)
McKenzie Forbes, Harvard (Jr., G — Folsom, Calif.)
Jenna Clark, Yale (So., G — Pittsburgh, Pa.)
Jordan Obi, Penn (So., F — Cupertino, Calif.)
HONORABLE MENTION
Grace Stone, Princeton (Jr., G — Glen Cove, N.Y.)
Theresa Grace Mbanefo, Cornell (Sr., F — Otsego, Minn.)
Lola Mullaney, Harvard (So., G — Colts Neck, N.J.)
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Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-09-22 05:09 PM - Post#338573
In response to Tiger81
Ellie Mitchell is the best defensive player (and rebounder) in the league but does not even merit HM All-Ivy?
In any case, congrats to all of the honorees!
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3044
Reg: 10-20-14
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Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy 03-09-22 05:42 PM - Post#338578
In response to Tiger81
I had Mitchell as #2 for DPOY and listed her for HM, but I would probably take her over every other player if I was starting a team. She has a Rodman-like knack for getting rebounds.
I went with Hsu over Padilla for 1st team, mostly because of the Lions overall success. I think Padilla continues to be a great scorer and improved in her ability to get the ball to others. However, I dropped her to second team because of the early season suspension and Penn not making the tournament.
I thought MH would get the COY honors on the men's side, but I am really glad to see Brian Earl get the nod. I think he's the most underrated coach in the league and it's about time he got the recognition. I don't know if it's in his best interest, but I hope he sticks around Cornell for a long time.
No matter my personal reasoning and choices, the league's results are totally understandable and appropriate. Congratulations to all those on both lists.
Edited by rbg on 03-09-22 05:42 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy 03-09-22 06:50 PM - Post#338588
In response to rbg
Good analogy as to Mitchell's style of play being Rodman like. I am not sure if I would pick Myers or Mitchell as the 1st player in a pick up game but it is tough for some to pick Mitchell as 1st or 2nd team based on stats. A great reason as to why stats can be deceiving for sure. If someone watched all IL games, Mitchell would have been a 1st or possibly 2nd team player. Berube defensive coaching skills might also distort the selection process.
Choosing Padilla or Hsu is like selecting Jaelin or Wright -- could have gone either way. I would have given the slight edge to Padilla as Hsu disappeared against the Tigers. Padilla is a more dangerous player with her ball handling and passer skills.
But overall, the coaches did a good job on the men and women selections. Several teams will have most of their players back next year and I would anticipate that the Ivy women's conference will be stronger next year.
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SecS3
Junior
Posts: 246
Age: 75
Reg: 03-17-16
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy 03-09-22 10:23 PM - Post#338606
In response to bradley
I think that neither Mitchell or Chen being at least HM is a joke. Are you telling me the coaches in this league really believe that Mullaney and Mbanefo are better players? If so, then it's no wonder no one can beat Princeton 'cause they don't know talent when it beats them.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21086
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy 03-09-22 11:04 PM - Post#338616
In response to SecS3
Eh, that logic doesn't necessarily hold.
If you only looked at the men's honors you'd think that Brown would have made the ILT instead of tying for 6th.
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SecS3
Junior
Posts: 246
Age: 75
Reg: 03-17-16
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Re: Predictions for 2021-22 All-Ivy 03-10-22 12:09 AM - Post#338629
In response to penn nation
Ummm...What logic is that?
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