Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-18-22 07:32 PM - Post#339548
In response to james
Purdue post-game press conference
Yale post-game press conference
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 800
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-18-22 07:39 PM - Post#339549
In response to Stuart Suss
Gabiddon summed it up. he had a tough one. Air mailed some 3s and had to guard a lightning quick guy who was hitting early from 30
great career tho
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Naismith
Sophomore
Posts: 150
Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
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03-18-22 08:21 PM - Post#339554
In response to james
although in a sane world the regular season champion should have been there, Princeton would not have done any better; nightmare Ivy matchup.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1892
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-18-22 09:42 PM - Post#339557
In response to Naismith
FWIW, Princeton's NET rating was quite a bit higher than Yale's and was a consensus #13 seed among all the so-called bracketologists. As such, they probably would not have been slotted against Purdue. Water under the bridge.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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03-18-22 09:54 PM - Post#339559
In response to TigerFan
I'm not entirely convinced of that - there's a rumor going around that the committee just splits the difference between the two teams in the ILT final and labels the spot "Ivy Champion," which may be suggested by Yale getting a slightly generous 14 seed this time much as it was by Yale getting an egregious 14 seed in 2019. Which, frankly, is shockingly lazy, given that the committee is compensated well enough that you'd think they could be bothered to make contingency brackets, but ah well.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2697
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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03-19-22 12:23 AM - Post#339565
In response to iogyhufi
That’s generous. I thought they gave us the lower seed. Why spend the final hours moving everything around to accommodate a weaker conference’s one bid?
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mountainred
Masters Student
Posts: 514
Age: 57
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
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03-19-22 11:52 AM - Post#339577
In response to iogyhufi
I'm not entirely convinced of that - there's a rumor going around that the committee just splits the difference between the two teams in the ILT final and labels the spot "Ivy Champion," which may be suggested by Yale getting a slightly generous 14 seed this time much as it was by Yale getting an egregious 14 seed in 2019. Which, frankly, is shockingly lazy, given that the committee is compensated well enough that you'd think they could be bothered to make contingency brackets, but ah well.
I'm sure they do have contingency brackets for power conference championship games -- though Tennessee fans probably disagree -- but there is no real return on doing so for a 13 - 15 seed. Just create an Ivy slot and focus on the teams CBS talks about because outside of this board, no one will really care.
Now, an Ivy final between a "has to be a 16" and a 13 or so could put that theory to the test.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1892
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-22 12:44 PM - Post#339578
In response to mountainred
The point of my original post on this was that in the era before the Ivies started holding the thingy after the regular season, Princeton would likely have been a 13 seed and so would probably not have faced Purdue. I was not suggesting that the committee gives a damn about the outcome of the “championship” game. I agree that having that game a few hours before the brackets are released very well could mean that the committee hedges its bets in most years (eg. If Princeton was a #13 and Yale a #15, just slot the Ivy team in at the 14.)
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 800
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-19-22 12:54 PM - Post#339580
In response to TigerFan
princeton might have been at 13. If not they would have been dismantled by a Purdue similarly.
Maybe they hit a few shots yale didn’t in 9 min drought. But they also likely couldn’t have held Purdue to the non free throw percentages
when a power 5 with size shoots 33 at the line and hits 80% u are f shopped unless u go off on 3
When said team can cover up your shooters bc there is no lane for 20 mins a game then ur percentages Shld drop with the fullness of 40 mins
it’s just pressure. When u have 6’7 midrange and long range shooters then u can overcome.
The ivies didn’t have that this year when I watched. Most power 5s do
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1892
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-19-22 02:08 PM - Post#339581
In response to james
We're saying two different things. I suggested that Princeton likely would have been a #13 seed if there was no Ivy tournament. You counter that if Princeton had to play Purdue, they would have done no better than Yale. Both could be true.
I believe that one thing most of the mid majors who pull off an upset in the big boy tournament seem to have in common is a critical mass of seniors who have played together for a number of years. All of the Ivies were at a disadvantage on this front this year because of the lost COVID year.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2816
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-19-22 02:15 PM - Post#339582
In response to TigerFan
Thanks, ILT. As for MR James’ remark, now, we’ll never know, will we? BTW, 3 point teams play better with a little rest.
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 800
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-19-22 02:19 PM - Post#339583
In response to TigerFan
That’s fair.
Ideally the champion wins the most games. I guess with yale beating princeton in the ilt they were dead even.
Princeton did have a better offense. So matchups matter. But Purdue was just an awful matchup for an Ivy this year and most.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2816
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-19-22 02:42 PM - Post#339584
In response to james
The point isn’t, “Who will fare better in the NCAA?” (although, sorry Eli fans, IMHO the Tigers couldn’t have fared much worse). It’s “Who deserves to go?”, a 2 game winner in a rushed thingy (I love that name!), or a full season champ of 3 months of work.
Give the winner of the GD Thingy the NIT where, BTW, it and the League have a much better chance of success. The real Champ (you know, the one who gets the banner) has earned the trip to the Dance, regardless of one’s perceived notion of whose chance of success is better. Final point: if the Champ probably will get a higher seed than the winner of the Thingy, whose chance of success is higher then?
Until the League is assured two spots, even one as a play in, screw the Thingy.
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 800
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-19-22 02:56 PM - Post#339585
In response to Tiger69
Princeton would have been dismantled by Purdue. They play terrible defense and would have no lane to play in for their one strength. The drive and kick.
The fact that yale beat princeton 2/3 this year is incredible.
We’ll take it. We had a flawed team and still won. w Atkinson even Wyatt yess or alausa I suppose 2/3 would’ve been disappointing but we’ll take it
As documented I didn’t expect to beat the spread against Purdue.
But to be win the league with a team like we had is like a cherry on a good dessert
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 800
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-19-22 02:59 PM - Post#339586
In response to james
We also got a great press in the nyt this week. I guess the whole league did.
But specifically yale gets called out for donating its best players to power 5 teams-mason Atkinson and bruner.
we’ll take it
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-19-22 03:58 PM - Post#339590
In response to Tiger69
On the other hand, after the Thingy, you now have Yale with a better resume over three months of work (same record, but beat Princeton 2 out of 3 head to head). So cutting it off after 14 games actually seems more arbitrary in a sense. After 16 games, Yale was better.
So far, that has been the case every year (when the 2 seed has won, they’ve ended with the best record in the league after 16 games). Eventually we’ll have a year where that isn’t the case. But so far, the Thingy has added more information regarding who is deserving, not less.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3676
Reg: 02-06-10
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Purdue 03-19-22 06:40 PM - Post#339619
In response to SomeGuy
No one knows what "would have" happened if Princeton played Purdue or a #4 seed. Who would have predicted St. Peter's over Kentucky? All we know is:
1) Yale played Purdue and got destroyed.
2) Princeton is ranked 40 places ahead of Yale in NET rankings.
3) Yale went to the NCAAs because they (barely) won the second game of a back-to-back.
4) Every Ivy team lost big time players due to covid transfers.
Yale won the bid fair and square, but it's silly to act like Princeton couldn't have done better - they almost certainly would have, though likely not enough to win. But 2 back-to-back day games is how the Ivy decides its NCAA rep and Princeton didn't TCB.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3676
Reg: 02-06-10
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Purdue 03-19-22 06:47 PM - Post#339621
In response to gokinsmen
For the record, I still support the Ivy Tourney wholeheartedly - it's the idiotic scheduling and rotating hosts that needs to go.
2 morning games in 2 days at a site that might be the 4th seed's homecourt. What a joke.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 435
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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03-19-22 06:57 PM - Post#339622
In response to gokinsmen
I wish Princeton had won, and think back-to-back games are tough on a three point shooting team with little depth.
That being said, the traditional regular season was virtually all back-to-backs, so I am not sure the good old days would have been kind to us.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2816
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-19-22 10:50 PM - Post#339629
In response to james
M.R.: Yale didn’t win the League. Get your facts right. Princeton did. All you won was the Thingy Cup. And, how can you be so damn sure Princeton wouldn’t have played better than your dogs?
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