besnoah
Masters Student
Posts: 803
Reg: 12-14-05
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08-16-23 11:42 AM - Post#357616
In response to Mike Porter
I thought I had lost the capacity to be shocked!
Penn first offered him last June. They had him in for an official in November 2022 and they had him in for a visit in 2021 too.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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08-16-23 02:39 PM - Post#357617
In response to besnoah
As the self-anointed scout of the HS YouTube videos, I would say the jury is out on this one. His videos showed sound fundamentals, but there wasn't much in terms of his playmaking and ball control. His shot looked good but not great. His footwork looked OK, but not polished. I would call him athletic but not explosive or strong. He looks so young in his videos. In sum, he has high potential, but he needs development. He wouldn't be an impact Freshman in the league.
He does look like he still has a lot of growth ahead of him, so he could turn out to be a really good Ivy player. If he has great stuff between his ears and develops his speed and strength, he has good tools to work with.
In general, I would give him benefit of the doubt if he is an Inter-AC star and if we have already offered. His other offers look good but not overwhelming. It's too early for me to call this a miss by our staff.
My rec-level basketball acumen might have missed something. 
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32834
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-16-23 02:43 PM - Post#357618
In response to Penndemonium
How does he compare to Brown?
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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2024 Recruiting
08-16-23 08:43 PM - Post#357620
In response to palestra38
How does he compare to Brown?
I assume you are asking me, even though I have no qualifications and direct knowledge of these players other than my diligent YouTube video ratings. Well then, I'll drop my real-world work right now to try to answer!
Apparently both Lower Merion and Malvern Prep were upper tier teams in their conferences. I would guess that the Central League is the tougher conference, as it includes larger public schools. Lower Merion is probably most famous for Kobe Bryant. I think an upper tier Central League / PIAA 6A team usually is better than an upper tier Interac team. The difficulty is that the Interac sometimes has some very spiky good teams. Even though the schools are generally smaller, they can recruit when they want to win. The Interac has had very strong teams in certain cycles. Other years, the average league team can be fairly unimpressive. I also saw some video that suggests Malvern Prep actually beat Lower Merion in some sort of outdoor tournament.
Brown was one of the top contributors to a very good PIAA 6A team. He shoots well and is both a scorer and facilitator. I love his video. I see a mix of Andy Toole in his ability to flow downstream and Jeff Schiffner in the ways he can shoot and make the three (40%). He seems to be a high IQ player who has set moves to create his offense. He needs to be able to defend and make good decisions at the next level. He seems like a taller and stronger Clark Slajchert.
Williams was the top scorer in the Interac, I think even as a sophomore. That is quite an accomplishment. I haven't seen stats on efficiency, but I assume he has to be a good three point shooter given he has mentioned shooting as his particular strength. In his video, I see a smooth shooter with a reasonably fast release. He seemed more slippery than shifty in his ability to create offense. He looks like he is still growing and could get quite a bit taller and stronger. I see Jonah Charles in him.
I would rate Brown as more ready contribute based on current skill sets, but that is mainly because Williams' doesn't seem to have enough video that shows the breadth of his skills. I can define Brown's skills and role better. The Penndemonium HS video rankings rates Brown higher than the other recruiting websites. Meanwhile, Williams is hard to gauge. Clearly he can play, and someone scoring at his level in the Interac should have a strong role in the Ivies. I'm not exactly sure if he will be a 1, 2, or 3 in college. The video I watched made me think he may need to get stronger first, and grow into a college 3. It's harder to project tweeners in the Ivy League, as their contributions depend more on the players' complementary team members and styles.
In sum, I would take Brown over Williams, but my margin of prediction error is high.
How was that?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32834
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: 2024 Recruiting
08-17-23 07:46 AM - Post#357622
In response to Penndemonium
A remarkable work of prose. Thanks for spending the time---at a minimum, it made me look forward to this year a little more when you're comparing one of our incoming freshmen to Schiffner and Toole.
I miss those guys...sniff, sniff.
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pennsive
Junior
Posts: 200
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: 2024 Recruiting
08-17-23 08:55 AM - Post#357628
In response to palestra38
Brown is not the only one we recruited last year with excellent size, outstanding high school credentials, and videos to back up their paper credentials. While we have no idea if they play defense as well as as their videos suggest that they can shoot and move on offense, there is ample room for optimism and enthusiasm for the high quality depth we will have at all five positions. Absent a recent run in the tournament, this may make it hard to recruit players in 2024 who are not confident they will crack the rotation in one or two years and who don’t want to wait around for their turn on what they have no evidence will turn out to be a championship team eventually. Similarly, competition for those who feel they could be starters right away will be fierce, and we all know our track record as to recruiting those prospects except in very rare cases. My takeaway is that we will have a much stronger team this year than the rest of this board thinks, possibly a champion if things break right and we draw a beatable team in the Ivy Tourney but a bottom rung recruiting class in 2024.
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nychoops
Junior
Posts: 243
Reg: 11-23-04
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08-17-23 09:30 AM - Post#357630
In response to pennsive
Respectfully i don't think their is a recruit in the country who
Penn is recruiting ,looks at the roster and decides elsewhere out of fear of depth or talent. Not a single one. I will say however I've heard some nice things recently about some of the incoming kids and expect a few to be immediate contributors.
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pennsive
Junior
Posts: 200
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-17-23 09:59 AM - Post#357633
In response to nychoops
I don’t doubt that may be true with higher level recruits, but Ryan Williams and many others in the past, whether basketball players football quarterbacks, repeatedly have been quoted as saying that they are looking for a team that is developing And where they can play immediately or at least quickly. Looking at all the potential point guards and guards who are underclass men and who play the 2 position that we have in the fold and their superior high school résumés to Ryan Williams high school career (so far, anyway), why would he think he could play meaningful minutes at Penn in the next two years?
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4361
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-17-23 10:20 AM - Post#357635
In response to nychoops
Hoops- I agree with you 100%.
I think Penn’s challenge this year will be replacing Jordan’s points and in particular the role they played in fueling runs that are part and parcel of the modern game.
I have tracked what Tyler Perkins has been doing this summer down in DC in a summer league stacked with D1 players and some professionals. I’m thinking he is the likely candidate to see the floor immediately. But - who knows?
In terms of the next recruiting class, it’s very difficult to have an opinion at this point in time as it doesn’t exist. This is frustrating for us, as is Penn’s lack of a dynamic presence on social media. I’ve expressed my opinion before about what I think the role of an online personality in the recruiting role should be. But - it’s just my opinion.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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08-17-23 11:56 AM - Post#357640
In response to AsiaSunset
Yeah, I should say that I really like a backcourt with Perkins and Brown for years to come. For the first time in a long time, we would have penetration, ball handling, playmaking, and shooting in both positions of the backcourt. Perkins can probably tighten his shot a bit. He seems to have a great midrange game, which he may want to extend in a Donahue offense.
Perkins is one of the few players that reminds me a bit of Jelani Williams. Jelani was a bit taller, faster, and more explosive - too bad we never got to see that version of himself. Perkins will be one of our rare Freshman to arrive NCAA ready physically. He looks strong, aggressive, and fast. I'm guessing he needs to improve as a facilitator and shooter. His tape doesn't show his defense, but he looks like he should be good on that front.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4361
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-17-23 01:35 PM - Post#357643
In response to Penndemonium
How a high school career translates to college success can be difficult to predict at a mid major level.
Tyler Perkins was a three level scorer in high school with pretty high level of success both beyond the arc and in the mid range game. Penn often recruits guys who have been successful beyond the arc. Brown and Polonowski also fit in that category. Not all of these high schoolers enjoy a similar level of success shooting the ball in college. It’s a faster, more physical game.
I suspect Tyler Perkins is a better shooter from 3 than the Jordan Dingle we knew as a freshmen but the proof will be in the pudding.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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08-19-23 01:51 AM - Post#357658
In response to AsiaSunset
Yes, I didn't see enough three point shots in Tyler's video to have a feel around his stroke and consistency. What I liked about him is that he seemed able to penetrate in the half court. Brown showed some ability on that front too. I like the balance that Perkins and Brown could bring together to the backcourt.
Williams may have all of those abilities, but I saw a lot more transition scoring on his video - so I had questions. That said, it sounds like he's a good shooter and shooting is always a premium.
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besnoah
Masters Student
Posts: 803
Reg: 12-14-05
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09-01-23 02:37 PM - Post#357803
In response to besnoah
Jack Stanton, whom Penn offered in May, just committed to Princeton. However, it doesn’t appear any other key contributors left the team today, so it’s something of a wash, I’m sure.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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09-03-23 10:35 AM - Post#357821
In response to besnoah
Ouch
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slane
Freshman
Posts: 67
Reg: 02-09-05
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09-27-23 10:13 PM - Post#358128
In response to AsiaSunset
Does anybody think this helps recruiting?
https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/video/ph ilade...
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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09-28-23 09:52 AM - Post#358132
In response to slane
Ryan Williams committed to Northeastern.
And if you think kids are making their college decisions based on perceptions of Philadelphia crime, you need to talk to more kids. Least of our issues.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32834
Reg: 11-21-04
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09-28-23 10:43 AM - Post#358134
In response to 91Quake
The flash mob violence is being played up big time on MAGA media. Fact is that violent crime is higher almost uniformly in Red States. And that's all I'll have to say about it here. But no, it has no effect on admissions at Penn at any level. People want to come here and it's overwhelmingly safe--in fact, it's much safer and there is far less street crime than when we attended in the Rizzo era. But everything has to be tribal these days.
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Cvonvorys
Postdoc
Posts: 4484
Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
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09-28-23 05:14 PM - Post#358145
In response to palestra38
The flash mob violence is being played up big time on MAGA media. Fact is that violent crime is higher almost uniformly in Red States. And that's all I'll have to say about it here. But no, it has no effect on admissions at Penn at any level. People want to come here and it's overwhelmingly safe--in fact, it's much safer and there is far less street crime than when we attended in the Rizzo era. But everything has to be tribal these days.
Dude... I politely ask that you take your elitist point of view to the OTB. The fact that you excuse what's happening in center city Philly speaks volumes about how out of touch you are.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32834
Reg: 11-21-04
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09-29-23 03:58 PM - Post#358152
In response to Cvonvorys
You obviously know nothing about what happened other than the propaganda you read and absorb. It's really unfortunate that a Penn grad is so ignorant.
I'm there every day. It's safe--no one got hurt. Trying to hurl racist memes because a bunch of criminals used yet another senseless police execution of a person driving while black to commit crimes is just the MAGA thing to do. I won't stand for it, no matter which board you or Stan post in.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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09-29-23 04:39 PM - Post#358156
In response to palestra38
Apologies,but I am going to attempt to drag this thread back to actual recruiting. Alex Massung of Hudson Catholic, a 6-3 guard, is visiting this weekend. Offers from Manhattan, Buffalo, Albany.
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