Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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11-13-22 07:42 AM - Post#346440
Looking forward to this afternoon. Are there any mask requirements?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Home Opener
11-13-22 07:50 AM - Post#346441
In response to Charlie Fog
no
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8219
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-13-22 09:43 AM - Post#346443
In response to palestra38
For what it’s worth at this point, Towson in KenPom 85 and a 4 point favorite.
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Condor
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-13-22 10:15 AM - Post#346446
In response to Streamers
Interesting that Penn is the favorite on ESPN analytics.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8219
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-13-22 10:33 AM - Post#346448
In response to Condor
Feels like a pickem game to me. Towson is not very deep and does not appear to present big matchup issues. They are, however experienced and strong defensively. Tell me if our 3s go down and I’ll tell you who wins. I would think Penn will try and run on them and MLL could have a big game in transition at the beginning and the finish.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Home Opener
11-13-22 05:28 PM - Post#346467
In response to Streamers
Have these refs heard of home court advantage or did Towson bring the refs with them, lol. Offenses have grinded to a halt but some pretty rough calls and bad foul disparity.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-13-22 05:42 PM - Post#346468
In response to Mike Porter
Towson is a good defensive team but offense is brutal.
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Penn7277
PhD Student
Posts: 1365
Loc: Lancaster, PA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-13-22 05:43 PM - Post#346469
In response to Mike Porter
Penn shoots too many threes and has too many turnovers.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-13-22 05:52 PM - Post#346470
In response to Penn7277
I’m at the game and have a single word.
Brutal.
Whois this guy who stole Dingle’s uniform?
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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Home Opener
11-13-22 05:53 PM - Post#346471
In response to palestra38
Yeah, so far this season Dingle has been a turnover machine and not shooting well. Not a good recipe for a team leader.
Edited by penn nation on 11-13-22 05:53 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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 11-13-22 06:28 PM - Post#346473
In response to penn nation
Down 19 to Towson at home.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-13-22 06:32 PM - Post#346474
In response to Mike Porter
We just do not have any viable inside game. So a lot of outside shots and 3 pt shots to try to make up for it.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-13-22 06:34 PM - Post#346475
In response to Mike Porter
Down 19 to Towson at home.
And just like that, down to 10, but it has been an uphill struggle all the way in this one.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-13-22 06:41 PM - Post#346476
In response to penn nation
If Dingle had played like this in the first half, we're looking at a very, very tight contest.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-13-22 06:46 PM - Post#346477
In response to penn nation
I’ll be honest, I don’t get the lineup choices or the substitution patterns and also they aren’t working.
We’ve fought our way back… to being down 10-12 points… against Towson at the Palestra.
Ed Holland should play every minute we have him available.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-13-22 06:51 PM - Post#346478
In response to Mike Porter
It's tough to win when you aren't much of a threat inside and at least so far you don't have any consistent threats from deep.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-13-22 06:57 PM - Post#346479
In response to penn nation
2 possession game for the first time since 6:38 to play in the first half.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-13-22 06:59 PM - Post#346480
In response to penn nation
Nice run at the end, but too little too late.
But at least it's good to know that Dingle still has it.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-13-22 07:02 PM - Post#346481
In response to penn nation
That was quite the second half by the Quakers--50 points, and many of them in a big flurry towards the later stages.
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Quake Show
Junior
Posts: 218
Reg: 03-04-20
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11-13-22 07:02 PM - Post#346482
In response to penn nation
It's perplexing how much better some of the offensive sets were when there were under 2 minutes left in the game. Drive penetration, finding the open man, good movement off-ball. Where is this for the other 38 minutes.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-13-22 07:04 PM - Post#346483
In response to Quake Show
It's perplexing how much better some of the offensive sets were when there were under 2 minutes left in the game. Drive penetration, finding the open man, good movement off-ball. Where is this for the other 38 minutes.
Does it help that 3 of the 9 made three point shots happened during the final 2 minutes? We were pretty cold for most of the game.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-13-22 08:18 PM - Post#346486
In response to penn nation
Steve made a major change in the 2nd half---he realized that Dingle still lacks lateral quickness and switched the point guard/bringing the ball up duty from Slajchert to Dingle. So now, Dingle was facing the basket and attacking straight on. He was far more effective and Slajchert still got his touches. I would keep those roles for the next few games.
And Spinoso is really good and will get better. As much as I like MLL, we do nothing to get him involved in the offense--Spinoso should start and get the majority of minutes.
Finally, Holland must play more. Regrettably, Charles just can't hit his shots and kills us in every aspect of the game other than that. Monroe doesn't do enough either. We need guys who take the pressure off Slajchert and Dingle. Martz has to keep his head in the game, too. We'll get there--but for the 3rd straight season, this team was not ready to go for the start of the season.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8219
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-13-22 08:21 PM - Post#346489
In response to Quake Show
This wasn’t complicated. Towson plays good half court defense. Penn played half court offense for 35 minutes. Wish they had made the adjustment and started running sooner.
Give Towson some credit. They made plays when they had to. I’d love to get another crack at them.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-13-22 08:26 PM - Post#346491
In response to palestra38
Spinoso is effective in the high post but either way we don't really have a good interior presence on offense.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-13-22 09:01 PM - Post#346492
In response to penn nation
Don't know what you were watching, but Spinoso only is effective in the low post. Nice lefty hook and spin move.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2137
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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11-13-22 10:07 PM - Post#346495
In response to palestra38
Of our bigs, Spinoso clearly has the most polished low post game. In limited minutes last year, he also showed the ability to make three point shots.
MLL seems to be more of a lob target who doesn't have any clear, effective post moves. I see him getting most of his points on putbacks, once we get to the point in the season where he's not being defended by stronger players.
I still don't think Larson has the strength to play in the low post.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-13-22 10:34 PM - Post#346499
In response to weinhauers_ghost
35 minutes, 0 points and 4 rebounds between Moshkovitz and Lorca-Lloyd ain't cutting it. Spinoso seems to be progresing but he's far from consistent at this point. Why can't this staff develop frontcourt players?
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8219
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-13-22 10:49 PM - Post#346502
In response to Buckeye Quake
I can think of a few they did a great job with in recent years.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-13-22 11:40 PM - Post#346503
In response to palestra38
On the downside, Spinoso turned it over way too much.
Physical game, and at times the refs let too much go. Spinoso and #32 were really going at it. I actually liked the way Clark played defense. He was scrapping the whole way (including hooking his man for about 5 straight seconds on one possession). He’s so small that he really has to do that stuff to compete.
Was fun to see Dingle become Dingle again in the second half.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-13-22 11:41 PM - Post#346504
In response to Streamers
Really feel a significant chunk the teams problems on offense so far can be pegged to what I assume is Dingle’s lack of practice time while he’s been forced to wear the boot off court. Just not in sync with other guys on too many possessions, which is leading to some screwed up sets and bad shots or awful turnovers.
He’s had his own excess share of individual turnovers as well of course, especially early in all three games. Seems he can’t do what he’s accustomed to doing until he loosens up his leg/ankle.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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Home Opener
11-14-22 08:18 AM - Post#346508
In response to Chip Bayers
We need more offense from the 3-4 positions. I think Holland is the ultimate answer to one of them and Martz will be OK for the other. It's hard to expect Slajchert and Dingle to both score 20 a night which is required if we get no scoring from the 3-4--indeed, they both scored 20 and we lost yesterday.
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borschtbelt
Freshman
Posts: 60
Age: 74
Reg: 07-27-20
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Re: Home Opener
11-14-22 09:46 AM - Post#346509
In response to palestra38
P-38:
I agree. This team has one solvable problem--it plays only two scorer-guys with handle, a shot, and the ability to drive. If either has an off night or is in foul trouble, good luck. The only answer I see is Holland who needs to start and play significant minutes. We are what we are at the 5-one slow and one with no offensive skills. The 4--I'm guessing Martz for a good chunk is what you get.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23360
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-14-22 11:36 AM - Post#346511
In response to borschtbelt
Well someone needs to step up and play some ball. This losing business is unacceptable. We are not Brown or Cornell. We're the Penn Quakers dang it.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-14-22 11:43 AM - Post#346512
In response to 10Q
And we're playing 4 top 100 programs to start the season (Actually, Iona is 101). We're 180 in KemPom despite 3 losses.
Frankly, this is stupid scheduling, exacerbated by the fact that both Slajchert and Dingle had preseason injuries and were really not ready to go at the start. Were we playing Patriot League or lower competition, like some of our brethren, we would not be 0-3.
That being said, we need to be better. And we cannot have a gaping hole from production from the 3-4 positions.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-14-22 11:52 AM - Post#346513
In response to palestra38
Drexel, tomorrow night, is 188. So I guess that's a game we need to win because at West Virginia is likely to be unpleasant.
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Okoro Dude
Senior
Posts: 309
Loc: Glen Mills, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
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11-14-22 11:57 AM - Post#346514
In response to palestra38
Seems to me this essentially the same team as last year. A lot of minutes back and they are not playing like it. It’s really ugly basketball at both ends right now. That tells me the talent in this team has a lower ceiling than I hoped. I think the thing we have going for us is the regression of the rest of the league, but I see no evidence we are growing towards being a top 100 team in this talent cycle.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-14-22 12:20 PM - Post#346516
In response to Okoro Dude
Tough to say. The Dingle/Slajchert combo will be electric--they were not healthy right up to the start of the season and it shows.
Beyond that, Steve is trying to work out a rotation. We have talent for the 3-4 slots but have not jelled yet. We've played 3 veteran teams with solid athleticism. Had we played 40 minutes yesterday the way we played in stretches, we could have won. Played well against Missouri for most of the game.
Tell me, if we played Sacred Heart and Elon and won both, would you feel differently about this team? This is 3 straight seasons (well, one we didn't play) where we overscheduled ourselves early--with 2 payday games as well.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8219
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-14-22 12:52 PM - Post#346519
In response to Okoro Dude
Personally, I repeat this team should be far more effective in transition than recent squads have been given their athleticism and size/rebounding capability. They need to exploit this and proved that yesterday.
I was also intrigued by the appearance of Reese MCMullen for 7 minutes in the 2nd half. He got one bucket, runs the floor well, and appears to have quick feet, Beyond that - all I can assume is that he earned this PT in practice.
Also: Holland is still a work in process on D.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23360
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-14-22 01:25 PM - Post#346520
In response to Streamers
Are we actually playing at Drexel’s gym? That is completely ridiculous.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-14-22 01:43 PM - Post#346522
In response to Streamers
I think the defense is the issue. In basketball-reference, we’re currently 353 out of 363 teams in defense. It’s not that we have offensive dead spots — it’s that we can’t stop anybody thus far.
Obviously Timberlake is a tough guard for anyone, but we needed to make it harder for him.
I really think we need to play Smith more. He defends, he’s our best defensive rebounder so far, and he’s putting the ball in the basket when he shoots it. Yet he seems to be playing a little less this year instead of more.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-14-22 01:49 PM - Post#346523
In response to Streamers
Also: Holland is still a work in process on D.
Hmm. Not sure I agree too much on this point. He has a higher block % than MLL and has a better rebounding % than Spinoso. On a team that has been mediocre to bad on defense on the whole, I actually like a lot of what I have seen from him on D so far. He's long and athletic and has made it difficult on a number of guys who were scoring on others. That and other defenders have certainly made far more egregious mistakes (Jonah Charles got burned 2x on 3 point makes at end of Missouri that sealed the loss).
He also doesn't turn it over, has hit all his free throws and has shown a nice stroke from 3.
For me the easiest rotation decision yet is that I'd like to see more time for Ed Holland III.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-14-22 02:15 PM - Post#346524
In response to 10Q
The ridiculousness argument went out with Rollie. All Big 5 (and Drexel) teams play their home games on campus (leaving aside the Big 5 DH this year)
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8219
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-14-22 02:15 PM - Post#346525
In response to Mike Porter
Also: Holland is still a work in process on D.
Hmm. Not sure I agree too much on this point. He has a higher block % than MLL and has a better rebounding % than Spinoso.
Shot blocking and rebounding are not in question. Allowing baseline drive-bys will limit his PT no matter what we think.
I did not think the defense was terrible yesterday, especially in the 2nd half, but this team has been allowing way too many open 3's in all 3 games. Good thing we will not see too many guys like Timberlake in league play.
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andybech
Freshman
Posts: 80
Reg: 02-15-20
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11-14-22 02:58 PM - Post#346529
In response to Streamers
I want to see more of Holland too. Looks like he is benefitting now from being the 3rd or 4th option and also getting matchups against shorter wing players, but his efficiency on both offense and defense has been impressive.
Looks like Drexel will only be on TV in Philly and for those with FloHoops. A little worried that there are a bunch of games listed with NBC Sports Philly (Big 5 plus one of the Princeton games) that may not get on ESPN+ to be shown outside of Philadephia.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8219
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-14-22 03:46 PM - Post#346531
In response to andybech
I want to see more of Holland too. Looks like he is benefitting now from being the 3rd or 4th option and also getting matchups against shorter wing players, but his efficiency on both offense and defense has been impressive.
Looks like Drexel will only be on TV in Philly and for those with FloHoops. A little worried that there are a bunch of games listed with NBC Sports Philly (Big 5 plus one of the Princeton games) that may not get on ESPN+ to be shown outside of Philadephia.
It does not appear that Tuesday's game will be on ESPN+.
As for Holland, let's hope he plays well enough in all aspects that we see him on the floor in the last 10 minutes of a close game. He will make life difficult for most of the Ivy defenders that matchup with him, especially in an up-tempo offense.
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13otto
Masters Student
Posts: 779
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-14-22 07:49 PM - Post#346543
In response to Streamers
Looks like Drexel will only be on TV in Philly and for those with FloHoops. A little worried that there are a bunch of games listed with NBC Sports Philly (Big 5 plus one of the Princeton games) that may not get on ESPN+ to be shown outside of Philadephia.
It does not appear that Tuesday's game will be on ESPN+.
Correct. It's Drexel's home game. Drexel and the CAA have partnered with FloSports for home games, while Penn and the Ivy League have partnered with ESPN/ESPN+ for home games.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-14-22 10:51 PM - Post#346553
In response to Streamers
Right. So many you just can't think of them. The list starts and ends with Brodeur. And I'm not sure they had anything to do with that.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8219
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-14-22 11:27 PM - Post#346554
In response to Buckeye Quake
Right. So many you just can't think of them. The list starts and ends with Brodeur. And I'm not sure they had anything to do with that.
<snark alert> Rothschild and DNH sprung to mind for me and I do not even have a long memory.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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Home Opener
11-14-22 11:42 PM - Post#346555
In response to Streamers
We'll always have Lefko.
And I just love that photo of him in the Palestra.
Edited by penn nation on 11-14-22 11:43 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-15-22 01:41 PM - Post#346573
In response to Streamers
Really? That's what you're going with? Surely you jest. If you consider going from average to slightly above average then yeah. I guess.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8219
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-15-22 04:18 PM - Post#346581
In response to Buckeye Quake
takes some of the steam out of a claim that is somewhat specious. Now your turn. Name some high-potential bigs that failed to develop. I'll spot you Simmons and maybe Wang.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-15-22 04:36 PM - Post#346584
In response to Streamers
As usual, I can see both sides of this. AJ came in as something close to a finished product. He did get better every year, but in ways that were more incremental because he was so good to begin with. Certainly not a situation where the staff “developed” him.
But what isn’t really fair about the take, at least in regard to Donahue, is that AJ takes up years 2-5 of a 6 year tenure. So for 5 years in a system that really only plays one big, Donahue first had senior DNH and then AJ. Nothing to develop, at least to the level of needing to be a starter. So we’re now in year 2 without AJ. I’m not ready to make any declarations about whether any big will look “developed” as the year goes on. MLL looked a lot better in the first two games (not so much the 3rd). He certainly came in very raw. He’s gotten better. We’ll see.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-15-22 05:11 PM - Post#346588
In response to Streamers
High potential? Specious? If you're gonna try to be cute, at least get the question right. I said front court players. Anyone. Any level. Nothing about level of potential. But thanks for pointing out two glaring examples. Not so misleading after all huh?
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-15-22 05:31 PM - Post#346595
In response to Buckeye Quake
Eddie Scott. A bit of a stretch I guess seeing as where he was listed as a guard but was playing out of position his entire time here. Mark Jackson, Dan Dwyer, Colin McManus, Kuba Mijakowski, Dylan Jones, and Sam Jones and that's just going back to 17. All high to moderate level of potential otherwise why were they recruited? Another can of worms btw.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-15-22 06:16 PM - Post#346603
In response to Buckeye Quake
Although once you open it up to Eddie, Kuba, and Sam Jones, you’re talking about guys who were playing the 4 for us. And that really opens up the field to some guys who did develop to varying degrees — Howard, Betley, and Martz have played that spot and developed (some more than others).
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-15-22 06:34 PM - Post#346604
In response to Buckeye Quake
High potential? Specious? If you're gonna try to be cute, at least get the question right. I said front court players. Anyone. Any level. Nothing about level of potential. But thanks for pointing out two glaring examples. Not so misleading after all huh?
You can't develop, what you don't recruit. For a number of recruiting cycles in recent years, we missed out on vast majority of our post player targets.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-15-22 06:38 PM - Post#346605
In response to Mike Porter
I will say that I have liked what I have seen from most of MLL's time so far, particularly rebounding and def, but hoping we can actually get him involved in offense with some movement towards the basket.
I have liked what Spinoso has shown on offense so far.
Mosh is Mosh and we can get some solid backup minutes from him.
I'm not sold on Larson and seems he will be the quickest to fall out of the rotation. He is one of those big kids who manages to play small with his posture and positioning right now. Hopefully he can evolve beyond that.
I certainly like our rotation of bigs better than last year, but definitely no star level talent as of yet showing itself. Hopefully some good cogs.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8219
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-15-22 07:11 PM - Post#346607
In response to Buckeye Quake
Eddie Scott. A bit of a stretch I guess seeing as where he was listed as a guard but was playing out of position his entire time here. Mark Jackson, Dan Dwyer, Colin McManus, Kuba Mijakowski, Dylan Jones, and Sam Jones and that's just going back to 17. All high to moderate level of potential otherwise why were they recruited? Another can of worms btw.
I interpreted frontcourt players as meaning 4s and 5s who were seen as significant contributors when they came into the program. What is true is that SD hasn’t recruited many of them. I have high hopes for Spinoso. If he doesn’t fully pan out I’ll agree with you. If MLL had a full 4 years of PT, he would be an excellent test case. Larson is a project that is still in a very early stage IMHO. We knew that coming in.
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