Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-19-22 12:04 AM - Post#346823
In response to whitakk
Quote from Steve Donahue regarding Jordan Dingle, as reported by the DP:
"It's a leg injury, the trainer said he couldn't go before game-time," head coach Steve Donahue said about Dingle's absence. "Not sure what the long-term prognosis is, I would say it's day-to-day now."
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 437
Reg: 10-11-18
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11-19-22 07:25 AM - Post#346826
In response to Mike Porter
MLL not getting real minutes is insane to me. Against the size and athleticism of a Power5 program his minutes seem like a no-brainer. He is a quality defender who changes the way other teams play near the basket.
The rotations make no sense and seem totally arbitrary. The way this team is being coached they deserve to get blown out.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6416
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-19-22 09:22 AM - Post#346827
In response to CM
Not sure if those are two different points or the same point. The center rotation is the easiest to understand. It’s just been MLL and Spinoso all season. Nobody else is ever on the floor. So that part doesn’t seem particularly arbitrary—who plays more depends on the matchup and game situation. The staff likely sees Spinoso as the better offensive player and MLL as the better defender. Playing from behind, you lean a little more toward the “offense” option. Spinoso’s turnovers continue to detract from what otherwise is a good offensive profile, though.
There were a couple of positives last night. We managed to dominate the boards, particularly on the offensive end, and Martz played well. Clark was Clark.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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WVU
11-19-22 12:38 PM - Post#346830
In response to SomeGuy
I like Nick Spinoso and think he will become a good player over his career here, but has a current ORAT of 73.7 on 28.7% of possessions. In 5 games, he has one game with an ORAT over 100. These numbers definitively do not help offensive production or efficiency.
MLL should be playing more while we have him. They should actually run some plays for his abilities. Pick and roll is not so hard. I've seen Clark do so a couple times but he literally shoots it every time.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6416
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: WVU
11-19-22 12:56 PM - Post#346832
In response to Mike Porter
Yes, it’s the turnovers that kill the ORAT. If you just look at the scoring output or the “plus” plays, Spinoso is the offense option. But so far the “minus” plays out weigh the plus plays. If that continues, you might as well play MLL as much as you can. MLL does fit the offense now. He’s not high usage, but he’s part of it. Agreed more pick and roll helps.
West Virginia’s speed and style seemed to impact our ability to see the floor last night. Seemed to me we had a lot of open shooters that we just never found.
On both MLL and finding shooters, more Mosh may help. He sees the floor and finds open guys, and when paired with MLL he makes good interior passes. But we give up some other things with Mosh on the floor.
Hopefully the next few games will provide some more opportunities where what we can do sticks out more, and it doesn’t feel like we’re creating some hole somewhere else with whatever personnel choices we make.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: WVU
11-19-22 01:38 PM - Post#346834
In response to SomeGuy
We cannot win without Dingle playing. Just not enough offense. He played hurt at Drexel and gutted it out, but Penn needs to make sure he is healthy for the Ivy season. Right now, it would be a mistake to make him a "game by game" decision. Just get him fully healthy.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-19-22 02:34 PM - Post#346835
In response to CM
Another voice of reason. Be prepared to be shot down though by the Donahue sycophants.
What you witnessed last night, if you could stomach the whole game, was a perfect storm. Bad recruiting, nonsensical substitutions, bad coaching and the predictable excuses afterwards.
So if this team is a bad as they appeared while missing their best player, just whose fault is that?
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6416
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: WVU
11-19-22 02:44 PM - Post#346836
In response to palestra38
I think we can win some of this next group of games without him. Not Colgate, but the others. Agreed getting Dingle healthy for the Ivy season is paramount, though. Donahue’s statement was comically vague, just like after the scrimmage.
And while we lacked offense yesterday, we lacked defense even more. Some aspects of the rotation last night looked like maybe it really was a surprise game time decision to sit Dingle. I think some things will be different against Lafayette if no Dingle — in particular, I think either Charles or Holland will start instead of McMullen and play significant minutes.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6416
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-19-22 02:45 PM - Post#346837
In response to Buckeye Quake
I blame you and Jeff.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1122
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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11-19-22 03:39 PM - Post#346839
In response to SomeGuy
Yes the offense could be better. However, it is the defense! With or without Jordan they can't stop people.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6416
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-19-22 04:34 PM - Post#346840
In response to UPIA1968
Yes, and it was a problem last year when we didn’t have Williams down the stretch. Not sure we have figured out how to replace him defensively. Of course, it will help to stop playing top 100 teams. We looked good defensively against Drexel, and bad against everyone else. Small sample, but that provides hope the defense will be fine in conference.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: WVU
11-19-22 05:14 PM - Post#346841
In response to SomeGuy
That's a whole lot of I thinks. Sounds like the reasoning, or lack of, for everything they do, by this staff. Btw I'll gladly take the blame if it leads to a regime change. Lol!
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6416
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: WVU
11-19-22 05:43 PM - Post#346842
In response to Buckeye Quake
I still blame you guys for about 3 regime changes ago, which “I think” has a lot more to do with where we are in terms of recruiting versus the rest of the league than the current regime. We had a recruiting advantage, and we squandered it with 2 straight bad hires after Dunphy left, which happened to coincide with Harvard and Yale waking up one day and deciding they cared about basketball. It can take a lot of years to reset the narrative. We’ve been doing it, albeit a lot more slowly than any of us would prefer.
The other thing that has been quietly happening is that the entire league continues to be down. That is starting to look like a trend rather than a cycle. So to the extent that you are lamenting comparative recruiting outside the league, that seems to be happening across the board to our conference. If anything, it seems like we’ve been gaining ground on the top of the league, more because they are coming back to us than because of our gains. Top 100 teams in our league have gone from an annual occurrence to a rarity.
To be clear, I don’t really blame you or Jeff for Dunphy leaving — that’s a joke, obviously. But I do associate some of your complaints with similar complaints that you guys leveled at Dunphy back in the day. That’s admittedly just me transferring my frustration with losses at people who express that frustration differently from how I do. I think.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 437
Reg: 10-11-18
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Re: WVU
11-20-22 08:26 AM - Post#346868
In response to SomeGuy
The Ivy league's restrictive rules used to be something that good coaching and considered recruiting could overcome. But the hurdles have become greater in number and higher in the past 3 years. The current landscape of college MBB absolutely crushes programs that cannot/will not do the following.
-will not allow 5th year grad players
-cannot/will not create NIL programs for players
-Ivy League canceling 20-21 season sent a message to every high school player in the country who might have considered coming - and it wasn't a good message.
The Ivy programs sliding down the national rankings is not happenstance...
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8339
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-20-22 09:45 AM - Post#346870
In response to CM
This controversy around the fate of the Ivy League has been going on since it was founded. It has certainly taken on a new dimension in the age of NIL and the Portal that makes it more likely we will lose the high-end talent we do manage to recruit.
I’d love to say the Ivies can do the Duke/Northwestern/Stanfor d route and fill the upcoming vacancies in the ACC, the problem is I see that as being a viable option for only 4 or 5 of the Ivies. That is a deal breaker. It’s not as if you can send the rest to the Patriot League. Or is it?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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WVU
11-20-22 09:54 AM - Post#346871
In response to Streamers
The Ivy League is never breaking up. 8 massively profitable universities make their money from the brand, which while originating as an athletic conference, now far transcends it. You see these schools now telling US News to go shove it---any others with confidence they can ignore the rankings? The Ivies will keep playing Div 1 sports as a show, but sports has minimal influence on what these schools do.....and frankly, that is a good thing as much as I would like to see us compete on a national level.
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Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 575
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-20-22 12:14 PM - Post#346876
In response to palestra38
I wonder what the invisible new AD thinks about Donahue
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 437
Reg: 10-11-18
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11-20-22 12:26 PM - Post#346877
In response to Streamers
My fantasy is that one of the Ivy programs gets its crap together and creates a massive NIL collective, which could become a de facto scholarship fund. Removing the financial barrier to entry for potential recruits would be fascinating to see.
I don't think it will happen, but it's fun to think about anyway.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32906
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-20-22 12:27 PM - Post#346878
In response to Penn90
It will be interesting to see--neither incumbent is her guy (including football here). But it usually takes mental breakdown or fraud to get fired here. So expect her to stay invisible.
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Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 575
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-20-22 12:35 PM - Post#346879
In response to palestra38
I’m hoping she and the new president try to make their mark instead of being highly compensated caretakers
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