Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-26-22 11:45 AM - Post#347096
The Raiders played terribly yesterday, with their main rotation guys putting up mediocre to bad ORates, and collectively shooting under their averages from 2, 3, and the FT line. Probably wasn’t a pretty film room last night or walk-through this morning with Matt Langel.
On defense, they let Delaware players Jameer Nelson and Jyare Davis, who had been off to poor starts offensively this year, have breakout games, while LaSalle transfer Christian Ray continued his excellent November play. I did not get to watch the game, but a friend who was at The Palestra said Delaware really dominated the game with athleticism.
They love the three and have multiple guys who shoot it well, so question #1 is do we and can we deny them or at least strongly contest those shots? Richardson, Moffat, Lynch-Daniels, and Baker are all threats from the perimeter, while freshman PG Braeden Smith is expected to be one but hasn’t gotten off to a great start from the arc (4-15).
There’s a very real risk of a Missouri or WVU situation where we let a team come out and torch us with a flurry of early 3s to create a hole difficult to dig out of.
Edited by Chip Bayers on 11-26-22 11:49 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32888
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Colgate 11-26-22 06:09 PM - Post#347107
In response to Chip Bayers
That's exactly what happened--Penn goes down 10-0, but the excellence of our 2 stars gets us right back in the game.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32888
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Colgate 11-26-22 06:15 PM - Post#347108
In response to palestra38
Penn 34-31 at the half.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32888
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Colgate 11-26-22 07:21 PM - Post#347110
In response to palestra38
Penn is brutal against the press, but will win this game. We are what we thought we are--when Dingle and Slajchert are on the court together, we are an offensive juggernaut. They can hit 3s, mid-range and drives. I don't think any Ivy team has that kind of firepower.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21296
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Colgate 11-26-22 07:25 PM - Post#347111
In response to palestra38
Best win of the year, although again that did not seem like a KP Top 100 team we just beat. A vestige of the incredible run Colgate had in the second half of its season last year.
Yes, when our two top guns are hitting we can compete with anyone.
Edited by penn nation on 11-26-22 07:25 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-26-22 07:26 PM - Post#347112
In response to penn nation
Martz being more aggressive on the offensive end is huge for us. We need another option and he is our best shooter.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32888
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Colgate 11-26-22 07:27 PM - Post#347113
In response to penn nation
Spinoso with 8 assists to lead the team...although it helps when every time you kick out, the shooter hits the shot.
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Penn7277
PhD Student
Posts: 1365
Loc: Lancaster, PA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Colgate 11-26-22 07:57 PM - Post#347116
In response to palestra38
Did anyone notice George Smith's black eyes from the elbow he took yesterday?
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21296
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Colgate 11-26-22 08:06 PM - Post#347117
In response to penn nation
Best win of the year, although again that did not seem like a KP Top 100 team we just beat. A vestige of the incredible run Colgate had in the second half of its season last year.
Yes, when our two top guns are hitting we can compete with anyone.
And sure enough, Colgate is now KP 114 and Penn is KP 166.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Colgate 11-26-22 08:11 PM - Post#347118
In response to Penn7277
Did anyone notice George Smith's black eyes from the elbow he took yesterday?
Word at the Palestra this afternoon he’s that he’s out for a month+, likely returning when Ivy play starts in January.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23522
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-26-22 08:32 PM - Post#347119
In response to Chip Bayers
Sounds like protocol.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-26-22 08:36 PM - Post#347120
In response to 10Q
Sounds like protocol.
Also my understanding is it wasn’t an elbow he took yesterday but a face plant at Lafayette which broke his nose. He didn’t play against Hartford.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-26-22 09:09 PM - Post#347126
In response to Chip Bayers
As for the game: yes, you’re going to win a lot when Slajchert & Dingle combine for 59 points.
Still, we did seem to play more aggressively on D than in any other game this season, contesting the passing lanes, forcing turnovers on dribblers, and running guys off the three-point line more frequently. Colgate came in hoisting 3s on 39.2% of their FGA on the year and could only manage 28% today. And after hitting their first couple in that 13-0 opening run ended up only 4-16 on the game.
We also did a good job harassing their leading perimeter guy Richardson into a poor game.
Colgate definitely did not look like a top 100 team and obviously aren’t anymore. But they started 3-10 last year before turning into a top 110 & NCAA tournament team, so always possible Matt could get them to do that again. I think of lot of that will depend on the development of the freshman Smith by the time they get to Patriot play. He’s super quick with the true PG skills I was talking about Penn lacking, and looks like he could be really good really soon.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32888
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-26-22 09:47 PM - Post#347127
In response to Chip Bayers
Of course. But the key fact is that both Slajchert and Dingle looked far healthier than 2 weeks ago and both repetitively beat their men off of the first step. You really cannot cover both of them.
I also really liked the MLL defense on a very good center. Spinoso also played very hard but was a bit more overmatched defensively.
Tomorrow will be interesting--Delaware is more like Towson. If we play with them, we have showed improvement.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Colgate 11-26-22 09:56 PM - Post#347128
In response to palestra38
I also really liked the MLL defense on a very good center. Spinoso also played very hard but was a bit more overmatched defensively.
MLL & Spinoso were equally horrible against Records, who torched them on a 7-9 night.
The guy they were better against was the backup center Woodward.
Someone in the group I was sitting with wondered why they insisted on playing behind Records rather than fronting him and denying the entry pass, because it was lights out when Colgate got him the ball inside the restricted arc.
A couple of times Spinoso managed to push him out a bit beyond the dotted line, and those were the only times he missed.
EDIT CORRECTION: looked at the PBP and one of Records misses came against MLL in the first half. The other was against Spinoso in the 2nd.
Still, they were both pretty bad and should have fronted him more.
Edited by Chip Bayers on 11-26-22 10:23 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8331
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Colgate 11-26-22 11:09 PM - Post#347134
In response to Chip Bayers
So most if the points I wanted to stress from seeing the game live have been made above. I bet Penn wins every game where the guards go 60/60 (points and FG %) but clearly that is not sustainable. The front court needs to show up tomorrow against a (yes P38) Towson-like Blue Hen team that presents an entirely different set of matchups. It was clear in the first half to us that this game would go to the team that shot and defended the 3 better. Langel felt his guys had the advantage inside and effectively took his shooters out of the game to some extent while our guys did a far better job defending the 3 that they have all year. Give Martz some credit. He was the 3rd scoring option and had a very good all around game. Spinoso, for his part, got called for some questionable fouls early on and that made him a bit tentative on D until the last 10 minutes when he got a lot better. His 8 assists were more than kicking it outside. That part of his game is improving with every game. One other note: Penn’s depth was a factor in this one. The Raiders looked gassed in the last 5 minutes. We may see something similar tomorrow. One caution. We have nobody, including DIngle with his lateral movement issues, who can defend guards like Smith.
All in a all, this bodes well for the IL season if you think if Colgate as being comparable to a top tier Ivy team that plays much like the better Yale teams if recent years.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6415
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Colgate 11-26-22 11:52 PM - Post#347137
In response to Streamers
By kenpom, that was the best win by any Ivy so far this year.
Defense overall was good. While, as others have pointed out, Records in particular had his way inside, some of that is how we chose to play the perimeter. We weren’t going to leave shooters open, so Spinoso and MLL were on an island in there. The perimeter defense was stellar against a tough opponent, and really a team effort.
We comment on the resilience pretty regularly over the last couple of years, but it is worth emphasizing again. Got down 13-0, but the kids didn’t fold the tent at all. Kept on plugging.
Assume we’ll see a bit of a different rotation tomorrow, including a decent amount of Holland.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1903
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-27-22 02:46 AM - Post#347138
In response to SomeGuy
A few thoughts:
- Obviously a great shooting night from Slajchert and Dingle. We don't have any other consistent contributors on offense.
- Slajchert looked great. He is fantastic this year at hitting the runners. His catch and shoot threes look good. The only thing he is missing is the ability to roll off of a screen with the dribble and nail the open three. I don't really understand why he doesn't have this shot, as his fundamentals look great. Shooters like Maloney, Langel, and Betley could hit it, though. I think it has to do with strength and being able to rise straight off of a sidestep move. Slajchert's platform isn't quite as strong and stable as those other guys.
- Dingle looked like himself again. His three point shots look easy for him. He just tosses them easily. Even though his form doesn't look perfect and he takes high degree of difficulty shots, he simply can knock them in. Unlike Slajchert, he is a weapon with taking threes off of a screen. It creates a real problem for defenders. If we had forwards who could finish off of the pick and roll, it would be deadly with Dingle firing away if either defender gives him space.
- MLL - was impactful on defense. We don't give him too many looks on offense. He gets the high post, looks for the backdoor pass, and then gives the ball up. Again and again. He does not do much off of his picks. He doesn't dive hard enough to the basket and he isn't showing that he can be a rim finisher off of the pick and roll. Still, he looks quite a bit improved overall.
- Spinoso - is very active and I love his effort.
- Our offense - I don't really understand our team and its roles. We have a guy like MLL getting the ball up high, even though he doesn't seem to have the Brodeur drives to the hoop. We have Monroe bring the ball up, even though he has a scary dribble. We don't pass that crisply and quickly, even though we don't have the strongest ball handlers (except maybe Slajchert).
- Our defense - while they performed fine overall, I don't really understand our scheme. None of our players looked like lockdown players and our scheme doesn't seem to be stopping other teams. Colgate got to the hoop at will - they just missed a lot.
- I don't know what Donohue sees in practice, but please free Ed Holland. I want to see more of what he's capable of.
Congrats to the team on a quality win!
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mbaprof
Senior
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Age: 67
Reg: 12-24-11
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Re: Colgate 11-27-22 08:15 AM - Post#347140
In response to Chip Bayers
Great game at the Palestra, sub 2000 people but loud and enthusiastic both ways, expect more of the same with Delaware today. We came back quickly from 13-0, when we were +13 on points and 6 to 1 on money line. Colgate was pretty tired at the end after their battle against Delaware Friday, Delaware got to rest their key players against Hartford, but we have depth at 10+ guys, although i expect it to impact game today.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8331
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Colgate 11-27-22 09:50 AM - Post#347141
In response to SomeGuy
Defense overall was good. While, as others have pointed out, Records in particular had his way inside, some of that is how we chose to play the perimeter. We weren’t going to leave shooters open, so Spinoso and MLL were on an island in there. The perimeter defense was stellar against a tough opponent, and really a team effort.
All true, but we also noticed that there were some good examples of help defense down low in the 2nd half, but that was also around the time Smith started going off.
The Hartford thread mentioned the difficulties with the attempts to use our bigs down low in the offense. Clearly, Steve wants to diversify from the high-post guard-dominant offense Penn loves and they tried at the start to do just that. This transition is proving very difficult though, and somewhere around 13-0, in goes Mosh, a clearly frustrated Dingle takes over and the rest is history.
Looking ahead to this afternoon, the very good Hens starters got some needed rest yesterday so Penn may not be able to wear them down quite as much but we got a good look at their bench yesterday and I got the sense our second line guys would do well against them. I suspect there will be plenty of fodder for the rotation debate today. FWIW Penn is a 3.5 point favorite.
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