CrimsonBlood
Freshman
Posts: 46
Age: 33
Reg: 03-15-18
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01-28-23 04:38 PM - Post#350353
Watching the Crimson get blown out by a 2-4 Penn team and I had to get some things off my chest:
The Sad State of Harvard Basketball
Harvard basketball, once a sight to see
With wins piled high, and Ivy League titles in our legacy
But now the court is filled with sorrow and despair
As we struggle to even make the Ivy League tournament, with nary a care
We remember the days of Kyle Casey and Brandon Curry
When they would lead the team in scoring, in a frenzy
Laurent Rivard, a marksman from beyond the arc
His shots, a sight to behold, like a shooting star
But now, the team is in a sad state
Losing records, and no shooters to dictate
The game is a struggle, with no end in sight
As we hope to sneak in, to the tournament's bright light
What happened to the program we used to know?
How did we sink so low?
The team's in shambles, and the future is grim
What does it take to return to the glory, and win?
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CrimsonBlood
Freshman
Posts: 46
Age: 33
Reg: 03-15-18
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01-28-23 04:43 PM - Post#350354
In response to CrimsonBlood
In all seriousness, why is Harvard so bad?
Amaker has the Harvard brand and Boston/Cambridge to offer recruits. Why is Cornell/Ithaca even able to sniff the Harvard team?
It seems like we had incredible momentum in the program and then what should have been our best roster ever with Towns and Aiken was derailed by injuries. That team has top 25 talent. Then you had the Covid year, which hurt the entire Ivy League given their insane policies.
But what about now? Why can’t we get better recruits to come to Cambridge? Only top tier player we have right now is Ledlum… and he is gone next year. Doesn’t seem like we are moving in the right direction.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-28-23 06:51 PM - Post#350373
In response to CrimsonBlood
Okpara was a 4* wasn’t he? Although he didn’t look like one today.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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01-29-23 07:51 AM - Post#350455
In response to CrimsonBlood
Funny you bring up Cornell because I've always wondered why Cornell wasn't able take advantage of an obvious recruiting advantage over the other 7 Ivys. Namely, half the colleges within Cornell are state schools - meaning, lower tuition and lower admission hurdles for in-state kids. Add to that NY state turns out a massive number of good basketball players and you'd think the Big Red would crush on the recruiting trail.
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CrimsonBlood
Freshman
Posts: 46
Age: 33
Reg: 03-15-18
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01-29-23 03:05 PM - Post#350479
In response to CM
You still have to deal with Ithaca in the winter… and it’s not the Harvard brand.
Also, Harvard financial aid is so strong now that for many recruits, it’s either free or very reasonable tuition.
The comment wasn’t meant to be so Cornell specific either.. Dartmouth, Brown, you name it. Great schools- but don’t have the Harvard brand or Boston/Cambridge to offer.
It just seems the Harvard program has slipped a little bit recently. I do wonder if Amaker had his sights on Duke and if that has played any role in Harvard’s drop off..
The Ivy League in general seemed to be trending massively up… the lack of a medical redshirt and the Covid lost season seems to have hurt the league in attracting more top recruits.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32835
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-29-23 08:06 PM - Post#350488
In response to CrimsonBlood
It certainly hasn't affected the reported quality of Harvard's recruiting. But a combination of injuries to its best players and the lost season cost Harvard its upperclassmen and in the Ivies, it's tough to win with underclassmen. It also looks like Harvard has failed to recruit the kind of shooters it had with Rivard, Aiken and Towns, among others in the last 5 years. Teams pack it in against Harvard.
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mountainred
Masters Student
Posts: 514
Age: 57
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
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 01-30-23 12:12 PM - Post#350506
In response to CrimsonBlood
You still have to deal with Ithaca in the winter… and it’s not the Harvard brand.
I love my alma mater, but both of these statements are undeniably true.
Also, Cornell remains at its heart a hockey school, at least in the eyes of the alums who give real money. This is what incoming freshman hear (or used to hear) and there are many at the school who are openly dismissive of basketball. Plus recently retired AD Andy Noel was a wrestling coach who showered support on that team (to impressive results). So, hoops is winter sport #3.
The true glory days of Cornell hockey are getting longer and longer in the tooth, Noel retired and Koll quasi-retired to Stanford, so this could change. The incoming freshman who care about sports are much more familiar with basketball than hockey.
I will now let you get back to bemoaning the current state of Harvard basketball, which is miles better than anything pre-Amaker.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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01-30-23 12:20 PM - Post#350507
In response to mountainred
Yeah, I get it, Ithaca is no garden spot. All I was saying is the school has some concrete and lasting recruiting advantages (in theory) over the other seven Ivys.
It's has a state school component in a very good basketball state, that normally results in good local recruits. In-state tuition at the state portions of the school is 30+% lower than for the private portions and has admissions rates almost 50% higher.
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FlareScreen
Freshman
Posts: 44
Age: 54
Reg: 08-09-19
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01-30-23 06:15 PM - Post#350529
In response to CM
Cornell fan here, didn’t go to Cornell but lived in Ithaca for several years and knew a few Cornell athletes. Based on roster information, Cornell has 18 players on the roster with 6 players from NYS, 3 in NYS contract schools, and 3 in endowed schools/colleges. Out of curiosity and with some free time, Columbia has 14 players listed on the roster and 4 from hometowns in New York. 20-30 years ago NY may have been a hotbed for high school basketball but their neighbors in New Jersey have overtaken them IMO. I don’t know about the difference in admission rates but did have an old neighbor who went to the Dyson Business School, which I believe is part of the NYS system and has a very low admission rate as I recall.
I enjoyed Ithaca but there are no local D1 basketball feeder schools unless you consider Syracuse, Albany, and Buffalo local schools.
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Naismith
Sophomore
Posts: 149
Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
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01-30-23 07:15 PM - Post#350530
In response to palestra38
Harvard slide started when sophomore Towns went down in the Palestra stupid tournament site with 5 minutes left, heading to The Dance and POY honors Best class of modern time never played together again.
Last year injured Chris Ludlum's Ivy opener with Brown was his last game of the season. Harvard fans feel his presence along with Noah Kirkwood would have delivered a regular season crown and a trip to the Dance winning the stupid tournament on its home floor.
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mbaprof
Senior
Posts: 345
Age: 67
Reg: 12-24-11
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02-11-23 12:02 PM - Post#351310
In response to Naismith
Whats the assesment of other four star recruits?
Looking for insights as i watch the game today
Thanks
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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02-11-23 05:25 PM - Post#351373
In response to Naismith
Harvard slide started when sophomore Towns went down in the Palestra stupid tournament site with 5 minutes left, heading to The Dance and POY honors Best class of modern time never played together again.
Heading to the dance huh? I guess the 13-0 run was going to just keep going to end the game? No doubt him getting hurt changed the game but let’s not rewrite history.
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 587
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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02-12-23 10:19 AM - Post#351438
In response to Naismith
why was the Palestra a stupid tournament site? Do you realize the Palestra has hosted more post season games than any other place?
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 434
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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02-12-23 10:50 AM - Post#351440
In response to Charlie Fog
I think the point was that a 1 seed should not have
to play on another team's home court, not a crazy
notion.
The debate over whether there should be a tournament
and, if so, where it should be played, seems a perennial
here.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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02-12-23 11:00 AM - Post#351442
In response to LocalTiger
I've been just about alone on my "just pick a neutral site" island, I think. A postseason tournament should not give homecourt advantage to a team other than the 1 seed. Since the ILT is always during Spring Break, the benefits of a campus site are much less. Just hold the tournament at Webster Bank or Mohegan Sun or the XL Center and have done.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21212
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-12-23 11:19 AM - Post#351445
In response to iogyhufi
We've had multiple threads about this over the years. I think the bottom line is that the IL is simply too cheap to allocate $$ for such an expenditure.
I've been just about alone on my "just pick a neutral site" island, I think. A postseason tournament should not give homecourt advantage to a team other than the 1 seed. Since the ILT is always during Spring Break, the benefits of a campus site are much less. Just hold the tournament at Webster Bank or Mohegan Sun or the XL Center and have done.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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02-12-23 12:26 PM - Post#351450
In response to penn nation
But playing the ILT in essentially high school gyms is fine.
Yet another example of the geniuses in charge short changing Ivy basketball players. They seem bound and determined to turn the league into D3 before all is said and done. Getting closer every day.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21212
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-12-23 12:28 PM - Post#351451
In response to CM
We're on the same page as were most of the posters. This could all happen if the IL wanted it to...but it does not.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3778
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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02-12-23 12:59 PM - Post#351455
In response to penn nation
The world is full of things that really should and could happen but don't. Welcome to the human condition.
I seem to be an a bleak mood today.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2692
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-14-23 11:17 AM - Post#351589
In response to Silver Maple
I still make reservations at Mohegan Sun for March in the hope that the league will join me.
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