iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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02-19-23 12:33 AM - Post#352047
As the end of the season approaches, it's time to start thinking about who's going to get all-league honors. I have to say, I think this is a harder call than usual, but here's who I have at this point. Players are listed in no particular order, and please feel free to tell me I'm nuts:
PoY - Jordan Dingle
RoY - Caden Pierce? (I gotta be honest, I'm not sure who to give this to at all)
DPoY - EJ Jarvis
CoY - James Jones (or whoever wins the league)
1st team:
Jordan Dingle
Tosan Evbuomwan
Chris Ledlum
Kino Lilly
Matt Knowling
2nd team:
Dame Adelekun
Nazir Williams
August Mahoney
Matt Allocco
Max Martz
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-19-23 12:52 AM - Post#352052
In response to iogyhufi
This looks like a great first pass pending final two games.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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02-19-23 09:25 AM - Post#352066
In response to Chip Bayers
Other players for consideration :
Dolan
Jarvis
Wojcik
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21212
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-19-23 10:29 AM - Post#352079
In response to TheLine
Yeah, I'm not so sure any Quaker makes it to the 2nd team. Spinoso has slightly better offensive stats than Martz in league play and higher scoring average per game despite playing considerably fewer minutes. And Slajchert had a great beginning and is coming on very strong at the end but in the middle injuries really took their toll.
Any number of solid contenders from other teams to make 2nd team. If Penn does indeed end up with the title, and Martz/Slajchert/Spinoso are instrumental in the final two games in this respect, then that could be the rationale.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3778
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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02-19-23 12:11 PM - Post#352092
In response to penn nation
I could make a case for Lucas Monroe for HM.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21212
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-19-23 06:13 PM - Post#352138
In response to Silver Maple
I could make a case for Lucas Monroe for HM.
Yes, agreed.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 434
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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03-05-23 09:33 AM - Post#353132
In response to penn nation
Now that the season is over, it remains true that this is a tough year
to make selections. They should probably wait until after the Tournament, but that raises fairness issues for the players who are done.
Yale won the League, but their balance and Knowling's injury
means I don't see them having a first team guy. My first team would be:
Tosan Evbuomwan- Princeton
Jordan Dingle- Penn
Chris Ledlum- Harvard
Kino Lilly- Brown
Dame Adelekun- Dartmouth
Second Team:
Matt Knowling- Yale
E. J. Jarvis- Yale
Chris Dolan- Cornell
Chris Wojcik- Brown
Caden Pierce- Princeton
Honorlable Mention-
Rubio deLaRosa- Columbia
Bez Mbeng- Yale
Matt Allocco- Princeton
POY_ Tosan Evbuomwan
ROY- Caden Pierce- Princeton
DPOY- E. J.Jarvis- Yale
COY_ Jones- Yale
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Condor
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-05-23 11:04 AM - Post#353144
In response to LocalTiger
On POY, I would have said Jordan after the 1st half yesterday, but Tosan probably earned it when he led Princeton to its second win over Penn. I am ok with your other choices. I think I would add Martz to the Honorable Mention section. Also, were I making the choice, I would put Knowling on the 1st team and Ledlum 2nd team. However, Knowling’s injury probably knocks him down to 2nd team.
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Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts: 412
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-05-23 11:57 AM - Post#353147
In response to LocalTiger
Those selections makes sense, although I would probably flip Pierce to HM and Allocco to 2nd team. They are both gritty and clutch two-way players but IMHO Allocco has played a bigger leadership role in Princeton’s success this season.
Mitch Henderson has done a stellar job this year after replacing three senior starters and incorporating three freshman plus Keeshawn Kellman into the rotation. But Coach Jones at Yale also did a great job this year and has owned the Tigers so he probably gets the nod for COY.
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 336
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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03-05-23 01:21 PM - Post#353152
In response to Tiger81
The only award I feel very strongly about us ROY. Caden Pierce has had a remarkable rookie season, .
starting every game, in itself a tremendous accomplishment. He is a ferocious rebounder with an uncanny ability to get to the ball. He is efficient on offense and steps up in big spots. He owned the OT period yesterday.
I love Tosan but will give the POY nod to
Dingle. His body of work is the best I have seen. Best player on a tournament qualifier.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3998
Reg: 11-23-04
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Ivy League Awards
03-05-23 02:16 PM - Post#353157
In response to LocalTiger
I agree with your choices but based on the second half of the season, I might argue that Pax Wojcik deserves first team. I wouldn’t be surprised if the coaches agreed.Ask J Jones, he had 25 points, eight rebounds, four assists, three steals, and only one turnover last night. It was his third 20+ points game in a row.
Edited by Old Bear on 03-05-23 02:21 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 434
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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03-05-23 02:34 PM - Post#353162
In response to Old Bear
I thought about that, Old Bear.
My guess is that only one Brown guy makes it, and Lilly
also had a great year and was already a recognized star.
I would not quarrel with Wojcik making it.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-05-23 03:31 PM - Post#353170
In response to LocalTiger
Pierce seems like a lock for ROY, but I suspect that is all he gets. Too many deserving players for 2nd team who won’t be winning anything else (including Allocco and Langborg on his own team).
On DPY, I am curious if Jarvis is the Yale nominee. Seems to me it could Mbeng.
POY is obviously a two man race. I lean Dingle, since he hasn’t won it before, and he has the otherworldly scoring numbers. But Tosan is a senior and his team won the head to head matchups.
I think Knowling gets the last first team slot over Adelekun.
Finally, COY. I’m not sure Jones deserves it. Great comeback to win the league, but on the other hand, the #68 kenpom team probably shouldn’t have to come back to win the conference in the first place. To me, they underachieved. None of the other coaches really stood out, either, in a season with a lot of parity. So my pick is the coach of the one team that overachieved in the conference season — Dartmouth’s David McLaughlin. Yes, he sometimes looks like Will Farrell when he gets outraged by calls. But they came darn close to the last spot with a team that had lost a lot from last year. Second for me is probably Mike Martin.
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Naismith
Sophomore
Posts: 149
Loc: RI
Reg: 11-11-18
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03-05-23 03:48 PM - Post#353173
In response to SomeGuy
Dartmouth’s David McLaughlin is a no brainer for COY. "Expert's" pre-season chat had the guy more likely to replace Columbia in the cellar. Green had a remarkable Ivy season and look like a contender in the future.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21212
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-05-23 04:16 PM - Post#353180
In response to Naismith
Still, it says something about Jones that he loses his best player down the stretch and they don't miss a beat.
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-05-23 05:11 PM - Post#353190
In response to penn nation
hmm.
A Yale team picked 3rd wins the league without their best player down the stretch.
But he underachieved? Ok
Oh and that's a Yale team picked 3rd with a healthy matthue cotton who scored 20+ to get them through one round of ivy madness last year. But didn't play a minut this year
The COY discussion isn't interesting but arguing James underachieved is #%$@ hilarious
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-05-23 05:18 PM - Post#353193
In response to james
Yes, Yale overall exceeded the preseason media picks. But by the time the conference season started, Yale was a top 80 team and the obvious favorite to win the league. Based on Pomeroy ratings, they should have gone 14-0. Instead, they promptly lost to one of the bottom 10 programs in the country. And the followed that up with a home loss to another team in the bottom 100. So in the conference season, they underachieved by 4 games, which is way more than any other team in the league. They were favored in all 14 games, and managed to lose 4 of them. To me, that’s underachieving.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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03-05-23 05:22 PM - Post#353195
In response to james
Yeah, I think to overcome the presumption that the winning coach gets CoY, you need to actually...achieve something. No disrespect to Dartmouth, who absolutely did perform way above expectations this year, but they were projected seventh and finished sixth.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4914
Reg: 02-04-06
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03-05-23 05:52 PM - Post#353203
In response to iogyhufi
No Yale guys on the first team would seem to force Jones as COY. Or one could recognize a couple of their studs as first-teamers.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21212
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-05-23 06:05 PM - Post#353206
In response to SRP
MBeng has to be ranked higher than just HM. He is the best flat out stopper in the IL, and he is also a solid contributor in various aspects of the offensive game.
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FlareScreen
Freshman
Posts: 44
Age: 54
Reg: 08-09-19
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03-05-23 06:22 PM - Post#353210
In response to penn nation
COY, I would vote for Jones, if McLaughlin or Martin made the tournament they would be an easy choice. I know it won’t happen but what about Earl? Two years in row, picked out of top 4 in the preseason and two years in a row they are in the tournament.
POY- Evbuomwan, best all-around player in the league.
ROY--Caden Pierce
1st Team (First four are solid IMO, but would not be surprised to see one of the second team take Lily’s spot.)
Tosan Evbuomwan
Jordan Dingle
Matt Knowling
Chris Ledlum
Kino Lilly
2nd Team
Greg Dolan
Dame Adelekun
EJ Jarvis
Matt Allocco
Paxson Wojcik
HM
Bez Mbeng
Rubio Del La Rosa
Ryan Langborg
Ryan Cornish
Lucas Monroe
Nazir Williams
Idan Tretout
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21212
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-05-23 06:28 PM - Post#353212
In response to FlareScreen
I could see Knowling getting bumped down a peg for playing essentially only 10.5 games out of the 14 game Ivy season.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3671
Reg: 02-06-10
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Ivy League Awards
03-05-23 08:27 PM - Post#353223
In response to penn nation
What my ballot would look like (not my prediction for results):
POY: Jordan Dingle
ROY: Caden Pierce
COY: James Jones
FIRST TEAM:
Jordan Dingle
Tosan Evbuomwan
Chris Ledlum
Dame Adelekun
Kino Lilly Jr.
SECOND TEAM:
Matt Knowling (1st Team if not for injury)
Paxson Wojcik
EJ Jarvis
Bez Mbeng
Greg Dolan
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-05-23 09:20 PM - Post#353233
In response to iogyhufi
Understood. I’m just not feeling Yale’s 10-4 as better enough than Princeton’s 10-4 to justify COY. Now it may not be fair of me to move past both Jones and Henderson as a result, but it kind of makes me meh about everyone down to McLaughlin.
And admittedly, I always think POY should go to a player on one of the top teams. So maybe I should do the same with COY. But in this case I don’t.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21212
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Ivy League Awards
03-05-23 09:22 PM - Post#353234
In response to gokinsmen
That's an entirely reasonable take in my book. Let's see if they split POY.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-06-23 04:17 PM - Post#353300
In response to penn nation
Pierce is really the only candidate for ROY
I would be surprised if Jones is not COY. He beat P 2x
POY: Princeton guys are hoping for Tosan, and he could be Co-POY but I'll be shocked if there is only one winner and it is anyone but Dingle.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 434
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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03-06-23 05:20 PM - Post#353306
In response to PennFan10
Tosan beat Dingle 2x.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21212
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-06-23 05:31 PM - Post#353308
In response to LocalTiger
Tosan beat Dingle 2x.
I mean, MBeng beat Tosan 2x. So give it to him?
Give it up.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 434
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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03-06-23 06:04 PM - Post#353311
In response to penn nation
Just pointing out where the prior poster's logic should take him. Two candidates, and one consistently beats the other.
last year , the Penn board said the POY nearly always goes to the best player on the champion team. This year, Tosan repeated
with a weaker supporting cast. The unanimous choice has an even stronger case this year, despite Dingle's impressive scoring numbers.
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 336
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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03-06-23 06:33 PM - Post#353312
In response to LocalTiger
COY should be Jones, although I would prefer Mitch. I yield to no person in my love and admiration for Brian Earl. His team struggled of late and essentially backed into the tournament. I hope they can give Yale a tough time. The semifinal last year against Princeton was a street fight.
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Tiger84
Senior
Posts: 380
Age: 61
Reg: 03-06-17
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03-06-23 06:43 PM - Post#353313
In response to ToothlessTiger
In general, I think Henderson did a masterful job replacing last year's graduates...losing Wright, Llewellyn and Friberg was a lot. And finding a way to beat a good Penn team twice is notable.
But his in-game strategy 2 games ago against Yale (deflating the ball too soon, fouling up 3 too soon) may be disqualifying.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-06-23 08:53 PM - Post#353318
In response to LocalTiger
Tosan beat Dingle 2x.
No he didn’t. Princeton beat Penn 2x.
Don’t blame me. I’m not the one voting.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3998
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-06-23 09:11 PM - Post#353323
In response to PennFan10
Martin split with Earl and Mitch. His team was picked sixth or seventh. Unfortunately they lost twice to Jones.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3998
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-06-23 09:14 PM - Post#353324
In response to ToothlessTiger
I think K Anya might have been ROY had he been able to play the full season
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-06-23 09:31 PM - Post#353325
In response to LocalTiger
Not all “championships” are equal though. Yes, Princeton swept Penn. But Penn and Princeton played the exact same 12 games against everyone else and Penn had the better record. The net result is a one game lead over Penn and a tie with Yale (who swept Princeton). They didn’t even win the top seed. That isn’t the type of victory that takes you out of just looking at who appeared to be the better player.
Last year, Princeton won the league outright, and was better than Penn both head to head and against the rest of the league. That is more of a situation where I pick the best player on the best team. This year, I don’t think it is clear who the best team is.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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03-07-23 04:01 PM - Post#353364
In response to SomeGuy
https://ivyleague.com/news/2023/3/7/ivy-lea gue-ann...
PoY - Jordan Dingle
DPoY - Bez Mbeng
RoY - Caden Pierce
CoY - James Jones
First Team:
Chris Ledlum*
Jordan Dingle*
Tosan Evbuomwan*
Matt Knowling*
Kino Lilly
Second Team:
Paxson Wojcik
Greg Dolan
Dame Adelekun
Matt Allocco
EJ Jarvis
Honorable Mention:
Nazir Williams
Max Martz
Bez Mbeng
*unanimous selection
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Ivy League Awards
03-07-23 04:02 PM - Post#353365
In response to iogyhufi
No real surprises in any of this, although I’m a little surprised that Ledlum was unanimous 1st team given how much his performance dropped off in league play.
Edited by Chip Bayers on 03-07-23 04:03 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-07-23 04:30 PM - Post#353369
In response to Chip Bayers
Do they base these awards on anything beyond the IL games? If so why?
I assume they don't bc they shouldnt.
In that vein not shocked by much.
Which is why Jones won COY. I certainly don't think they study ken pom.
This being said for Yale in conference I thought jarvis and mbeng should be ranked ahead of knowling.
I could argue mbeng was team MVP and as he goes they go.
so said another way he needs to continue balling out on both ends to beat Cornell and then one of the killer Ps
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-07-23 04:35 PM - Post#353371
In response to james
A quick look at conf only stats for yale validates the point.
Mbengs offensive efficiency much higher and quite good for a PG.
So if he is dpoy wth isn't he 1st or 2nd team ahead of knowling and Jarvis was also good and played more of the slate.
No offense, matt. I admit it's grey. But
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-07-23 05:16 PM - Post#353374
In response to james
Allegedly it is just conference play. But in reality, it always seems like there are examples that suggest it isn’t (like, arguably, Ledlum, Knowling, and Jones). My guess is the coaches take this seriously, but they also aren’t looking carefully at conference only stats to make their votes.
I nailed all of this but Jones! Please note that my vote for McLaughlin and comments about Yale’s season are limited to who I think should be COY this year. Jones has been deserving of COY multiple years and is a tremendous coach.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21212
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-07-23 05:17 PM - Post#353375
In response to james
I would have been very upset with only an HM for Mbeng, but the DOY honor in addition took care of that.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21212
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Ivy League Awards
03-07-23 05:19 PM - Post#353376
In response to Chip Bayers
No real surprises in any of this, although I’m a little surprised that Ledlum was unanimous 1st team given how much his performance dropped off in league play.
And I'm surprised at Knowling being unanimous given that he missed 3.5 out of the 14 games altogether, and that Yale won the title nonetheless.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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Re: Ivy League Awards
03-07-23 05:25 PM - Post#353379
In response to penn nation
My guess on that one is that the coaches thought something along the lines of Yale won the conference, so they deserve a first-teamer -> Knowling was the best Yale player when he did play + Jarvis and Mbeng didn't have the same extended heights of performance -> Knowling makes first team
If Mbeng had played in the first half of the season like he played since Knowling went down, I think he gets the first-team slot.
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