SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4914
Reg: 02-04-06
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03-07-23 10:02 PM - Post#353410
FYI: https://www.wsj.com/articles/ivy-leagues- agreement...
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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03-08-23 07:56 AM - Post#353431
In response to SRP
Looks like there are more lawyers on the Ivy football board than here.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32835
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-23 09:03 AM - Post#353435
In response to Go Green
There are a lot of lawyers here. I don't think much of this lawsuit, but anyone can sue. They will have to define a market extremely narrowly to say that the Ivies' refusal to offer athletic scholarships reduces competition. Is this an agreement in restraint of trade? It's not price fixing.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8258
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-23 09:46 AM - Post#353438
In response to palestra38
Mike Jensen’s write up
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 434
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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03-08-23 10:04 AM - Post#353440
In response to Streamers
The intersection of sports and antitrust law has
never been an easy space to operate--witness the
Supreme Court's strange Curt Flood decision.
League rules are by definition "horizontal
agreements" among competitors and
arguably subject to "per se violation"
analysis.
If the "market" is college athletics, the Ivies
do not have market power. If, However, there market
is prestigious college credientials, the answer is
less obvious.
Plaintiffs present a sympathetic case. Should an 18 year old
kid from a family with modest financial resources
but real athletic and academic talent have to choose to take on
debt to go to the most prestigious school he can because those
schools want to uphold a particular model of amateurism?
I like Ivy sports as they are, but I am not in that kid's shoes.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32835
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-23 10:08 AM - Post#353441
In response to LocalTiger
Except for the fact that kids from modest financial backgrounds get free college under most Ivies' need based policies. This, like the attack on Ivy admissions, is really a right wing based white middle (or higher) class lawsuit attempting to disguise on whose behalf they are seeking a remedy.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1347
Reg: 12-08-04
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03-08-23 10:08 AM - Post#353442
In response to palestra38
Haven't read the complaint or analysis, but I disagree generally about whether an alleged agreement about scholarships cannot be classfied as "price-fixing", given the breadth of "price-fixing" definition. It is very broadly defined as basically any agreement (written, verbal, or inferred from conduct) among competitors that affects prices (in this case, tuition).
www.justice.gov/atr/file/810261/downl oad
I have questioned elsewhere whether the ivies can be forced to offer athletic scholarships, and I don't think this is a slam dunk (ha) case, but that is a different issue than whether an agreement not to grant athletic scholarships cannot be considered price fixing in the first place.
And at least people are talking about something other than the relative value of certain players.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32835
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-23 10:12 AM - Post#353444
In response to Streamers
My first impression, as noted above, is that this is not a price fixing agreement. We'll see if a motion to dismiss is filed.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 434
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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03-08-23 10:12 AM - Post#353445
In response to sparman
The plaintiffs do not fit P38's description, and not all Ivies
exclude loans from financial aid packages.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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03-08-23 10:13 AM - Post#353446
In response to LocalTiger
This suit was inevitable.
When schools were allowed to start handing out 'cost of attendance' checks to athletes at the start of each semester - on top of their scholarships funds - I felt like the Ivy model was for sure going to get challenged in court.
Not being a lawyer I have no idea of the legal merits of the suit. But kids/parents having to decide between paying 6 figures for an Ivy education and going to college for free at a non-Ivy seems less and less sensible with each passing year.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32835
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-23 10:14 AM - Post#353447
In response to LocalTiger
Well, wouldn't the fact that the schools all have different financial aid policies demonstrate the lack of price fixing?
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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03-08-23 10:16 AM - Post#353449
In response to palestra38
But all the schools have agreed not to give full scholarships for sports.
Is that price fixing? I don't know enough about what that means legally.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32835
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-23 10:16 AM - Post#353450
In response to CM
But the competition to get into the Ivies and pay full price gets more intense and the admission rates keep dropping despite the fall-off of the college age population. While many private colleges are in financial distress, the Ivies are doing better than ever. People obviously feel that the investment is worth it, despite the cost.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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03-08-23 10:19 AM - Post#353451
In response to palestra38
I agree with all those things. Yet, I don't fully understand how having sports scholarships would negatively effect any of those current realities.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32835
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-23 10:19 AM - Post#353452
In response to CM
They have agreed only to give scholarships on the basis of need. Piano players, Albert Einsteins, dancers, etc. get no scholarships either for what they do. And the Ivies participate fully in offering NILs. I do not agree that this policy is anything like making millions from TV and ticket fees and paying the players nothing, which was the subject of the Kavanaugh discourse.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32835
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-23 10:20 AM - Post#353453
In response to CM
I agree with you. I would be fine with the Ivies offering scholarships. This is about whether they can be compelled to do so.
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3058
Reg: 10-20-14
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03-08-23 10:32 AM - Post#353454
In response to palestra38
https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2023/03/08/lawsu it-...
At this time, this seems to be the first Ivy school paper writing about the lawsuit.
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CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
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03-08-23 10:42 AM - Post#353459
In response to rbg
Not for nothing, that writer for Yale wrote the heck out of that article.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32835
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-08-23 10:46 AM - Post#353460
In response to CM
Agreed. Accurately summarized the position of the plaintiff, when the Ivies would not comment, went back for a prior statement of the Ivies' position on merit scholarships and it is well written.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 434
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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03-08-23 11:10 AM - Post#353463
In response to palestra38
The student journalist did a great job.
Too bad SI is withering away. This person
could be the next Grant Wahl.
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