iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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10-06-23 02:36 PM - Post#358292
Caesars has a betting line for Ivy League regular season champion. I thought the implied ranking was interesting:
YALE +160
PRIN +260
PENN +350
BRWN +800
COR +1200
DART +1600
HARV +1600
COL +2500
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32885
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Preseason Ivy Rankings
10-06-23 02:45 PM - Post#358295
In response to iogyhufi
Can I take the under for Penn?
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21291
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Preseason Ivy Rankings
10-06-23 03:27 PM - Post#358297
In response to iogyhufi
It would be hysterical if Penn somehow finished 3rd and folks were like, "Coach of the Year Honors for SD? Nah--this was expected".
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digamma
Masters Student
Posts: 468
Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
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Re: Preseason Ivy Rankings
10-09-23 08:25 AM - Post#358317
In response to palestra38
Can I take the under for Penn?
Hey someone has to finish third! We're all gonna suck!
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Ever True
Junior
Posts: 255
Age: 28
Reg: 02-02-15
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Preseason Ivy Rankings
10-09-23 12:26 PM - Post#358318
In response to digamma
Two more rankings to debate, from analytics gurus Erik Haslam and Bart Torvik, respectively.
Haslam
76. Yale
107. Princeton
118. Cornell
160. Penn
192. Brown
207. Harvard
229. Dartmouth
281. Columbia
Torvik
80. Yale
137. Princeton
139. Brown
148. Cornell
182. Penn
214. Dartmouth
252. Harvard
271. Columbia
FWIW, I side with Haslam on the gap between Yale and Princeton, but prefer Torvik's vision of the top four  Also worth noting that Torvik still has Martz on the Penn roster - if you subtract his projected contributions via the RosterCast function on Torvik's website, the Quakers drop to 244.
Edited by Ever True on 10-09-23 12:35 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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Re: Preseason Ivy Rankings
10-09-23 03:16 PM - Post#358319
In response to Ever True
The Yale-Princeton gap is an interesting question. (For what it's worth, Torvik and Haslam both think that Yale is a strong favorite at home, a smaller favorite on a neutral site, and a toss-up at Jadwin.)
We're still in the assuming-a-can-opener stage of the offseason, but I just can't see Princeton as being particularly close to Yale right now. Princeton lost a lot, and what they lost is hard to replace. Yale didn't lost nearly as much, and there's a very good reason to think that the biggest concern will be addressed easily (the no-doubt lower quality of competition in the FIBA U19 Euros notwithstanding).
Princeton could absolutely contend for the league title this year, but there are a lot of questions they need to answer first.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6415
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Preseason Ivy Rankings
10-09-23 08:05 PM - Post#358331
In response to iogyhufi
Yes, Yale seems like a prohibitive favorite, particularly with Dingle and Martz out of the picture. Princeton is interesting. They lost a lot, but they won’t be relying on total unknowns to fill openings in the way they were last year. So while they lose an irreplaceable piece in Tosan, they have replacements for the seniors who at least got time last year (particularly if they play small).
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 440
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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10-09-23 09:09 PM - Post#358332
In response to SomeGuy
Yale returns the most talent.
Princeton lost the league's best player,
but they have some exciting freshmen.
It should be a fun year.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4919
Reg: 02-04-06
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10-10-23 06:17 AM - Post#358335
In response to LocalTiger
Princeton has a hole at center, Yale is loaded, so the Eli should be favored until and unless the Tigers figure out how to compete near the rim.
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 801
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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10-10-23 09:34 AM - Post#358336
In response to SRP
yale has 2-3 solutions at the rim. the question is when and which one asserts himself.
barring injury my guess is all 3 will by march.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 440
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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10-11-23 08:33 PM - Post#358356
In response to james
who are the 3 "solutions?"
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 801
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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10-12-23 07:47 PM - Post#358379
In response to LocalTiger
Wolf aletan and basa ama-all Looong
Not counting Townsend molloy etc who are bruisers but undersized but that wouldn't matter much on d in the ivy
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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Preseason Ivy Rankings
10-13-23 12:34 AM - Post#358382
In response to james
Ken Pomeroy conducted an interesting experiment to try and crowdsource some rankings. (He called it the H.U.M.A.N poll.) The results for the Ivy are...interesting, let's say.
99) Yale
125) Princeton
157) Harvard
175) Penn
181) Cornell
263) Brown
265) Dartmouth
326) Columbia
https://kenpom.com/human_poll.php
Edited by iogyhufi on 10-13-23 12:35 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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whitakk
Masters Student
Posts: 523
Age: 33
Reg: 11-11-14
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Re: Preseason Ivy Rankings
10-14-23 02:06 PM - Post#358420
In response to iogyhufi
"If we are going to criticize the humans, they seem have a brand-name bias. In the absence of doing a few minutes of research, voters seemed to rely on a team’s reputation to guide them."
https://kenpom.substack.com/p/human-poll-results
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2144
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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10-14-23 02:47 PM - Post#358421
In response to whitakk
I am struggling to see how people are still slotting Penn in at #4 in the Ivies. I think there are far more questions than answers on the roster at this point, and having lost two of the top three scoring leaders is foremost among them.
It will be interesting to see who steps up and contributes at both ends of the floor. I am also hoping we can get to the point where the offense is more egalitarian and less predictable. There may be no other way to go.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3683
Reg: 02-06-10
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10-14-23 03:01 PM - Post#358422
In response to weinhauers_ghost
The stars are aligned for Yale to have an epic year, but I think Brown has the best chance of an Ivy Madness upset. Their "big 3" of Lily, Owusu-Anane and Anya could be as good as anyone else's.
Anya was neck-and-neck with Pierce for ROY until he got injured. Even so, Brown went 7-7.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 4006
Reg: 11-23-04
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Preseason Ivy Rankings
10-14-23 03:35 PM - Post#358423
In response to gokinsmen
Brown will be better than most on these boards believe, This is the deepest roster in my memory, although that may not saying that much these days.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2144
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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Preseason Ivy Rankings
10-14-23 07:10 PM - Post#358427
In response to Old Bear
Yale could be scary good this season. Since my brother's a Yalie, they're my #2 Ivy rooting interest.
Edited by weinhauers_ghost on 10-14-23 07:11 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6415
Reg: 11-22-04
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10-14-23 10:48 PM - Post#358431
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Penn was a clear top three with Dingle. It’s not at all clear now, but it isn’t necessarily clear to me who should now be ahead of them. At some point, I suppose I need to start to believe in Cornell, but talent-wise I’m just not sure of them. They seem like a gimmick running at you in waves without actually being particularly athletic. At some point, I think the league figures that out. And Brown just can’t seem to break through. Maybe they finally do, but I have trouble anointing them top four, either.
The other three look behind Penn to me. So when I look at the league, Yale seems like the obvious number one, Princeton seems like a likely 2, and then Penn, Brown, and Cornell are in the mix for 3-5.
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iogyhufi
Masters Student
Posts: 681
Age: 27
Reg: 10-10-17
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10-15-23 07:35 PM - Post#358443
In response to SomeGuy
KenPom's newest rankings are up.
71) Yale
123) Princeton
131) Cornell
199) Brown
215) Penn
227) Harvard
264) Columbia
267) Dartmouth
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