palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32834
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: A J Levine
11-29-23 03:01 PM - Post#359825
In response to Mike Porter
We are suffering having lost our best two players. We would not be suffering had they stayed.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1155
Reg: 07-28-07
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Re: A J Levine
11-29-23 04:33 PM - Post#359832
In response to palestra38
Only Jordan left. Max Martz did not come back b/c of injury - that's a lot different.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32834
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: A J Levine
11-29-23 05:06 PM - Post#359836
In response to SteveChop
He left. I didn't say why. I will say I fully expect Max will play another year elsewhere. But no matter what, Penn lost its top 2 players and that turned a top of cycle year into a rebuilding year.
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 365
Reg: 03-25-09
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11-29-23 06:37 PM - Post#359839
In response to palestra38
I fear with the transfer portal there will be no longer be “top cycle”
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21208
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-29-23 06:38 PM - Post#359840
In response to yoyo
I fear with the transfer portal there will be no longer be “top cycle”
More like 'spin cycle'.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23401
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-30-23 03:05 PM - Post#359927
In response to yoyo
Dingle was historically great. That won't happen often. There isn't much market for Penn basketball players in the spin cycle.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: A J Levine
11-30-23 06:51 PM - Post#359936
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Sounds like his floor could be a Silpe or Klatsky level rotation contributor, with his ceiling a Rosen-type who willed himself into being a scoring point by the time he was done.
Yeah, I'm thinking Levine has a lot in common with Silpe, Klatsky, and Rosen.
It’s true that the handful of pure PGs Penn has recruited & played across multiple coaching regimes in this millenium is dominated by MoTT.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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11-30-23 07:06 PM - Post#359937
In response to Chip Bayers
Ibby?
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-30-23 07:38 PM - Post#359938
In response to TheLine
Silpe and Klatzky are the cautionary tales against high expectations. They were both great HS players, but not able to be standout players at the next level. Rosen was just a different species of competitor than almost anyone else.
I like our young guards a lot, and wouldn't mind another Rosen or Ibby to come along.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21208
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: A J Levine
11-30-23 08:01 PM - Post#359939
In response to Chip Bayers
It’s true that the handful of pure PGs Penn has recruited & played across multiple coaching regimes in this millenium is dominated by MoTT.
Ironically, Dick Motta was not.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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A J Levine
12-01-23 05:57 PM - Post#359975
In response to Penndemonium
Silpe and Klatzky are the cautionary tales against high expectations.
Yup. And there's nothing wrong with what they contributed, rotation regulars have value.
If you remember, Silpe was the "big catch" of his class, meanwhile Foreman, who played HS ball a couple towns over, was a recruiting afterthought.
Levine can clearly score. It's just tough to judge how good he'll be at the college level.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: A J Levine
12-01-23 10:05 PM - Post#359979
In response to TheLine
I think in both players were also recruited with a role in mind that the coach ultimately changed their mind about. I think Dunphy thought he would run an offense with a pass first point guard with Klatsky, and then after seeing it for a year decided to play with bigger combo guards instead. Klatsky himself was a different player (and frankly a better one) as more of a combo rotation guard his senior year.
Silpe was kind of similar. I think he wanted to be more of a distributor and initially played that role. But by senior year he was more of a combo rotation guy.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-02-23 12:38 PM - Post#359992
In response to SomeGuy
Dunph always favored two combo guards over a pure point/shooting guard pair. And preferably in the tall guard category. I think Klatsky as starter was driven by roster limitations at the time—there just wasn’t a workable pair that fit his system. It took the combo guard transfer Toole to solve that.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-02-23 12:48 PM - Post#359994
In response to Chip Bayers
My theory is that the roster structure was intentional. I think the staff was rightly extremely excited about that class and thought they had a potential full starting five. But Klatsky/King/Bailey (and Archibong as a 3) didn’t involve any true combo guards. I think they thought they might have more of a traditional point guard with a shooting guard kind of concept. And then the year of klatsky/Plummer caused them to see the need to bring in Toole and Begley and play with bigger combos who wouldn’t get pushed around on defense. So Klatsky became a rotation combo, Koko played the 4, and King and Bailey never really got to play.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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A J Levine
12-02-23 09:03 PM - Post#360038
In response to SomeGuy
King had injury issues too, didn’t he? Otherwise he might have played a lot more as a big combo guard.
Edited by Chip Bayers on 12-02-23 09:03 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: A J Levine
12-02-23 09:31 PM - Post#360044
In response to Chip Bayers
King had injury issues too, didn’t he? Otherwise he might have played a lot more as a big combo guard.
Maybe one of the years, but not a lot of injury issues that I recall. That’s why there was a “free Duane King” movement on the board then. He was super athletic and could hit 3’s but basically never got any run from Dunphy.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: A J Levine
12-03-23 09:27 AM - Post#360066
In response to Chip Bayers
I don’t think King really had combo skills. He was a kid who played center in high school but had guard size at the next level.
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1171
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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12-03-23 11:32 AM - Post#360076
In response to SomeGuy
December 30, 2001.
Liacouras Center.
Five minutes left in the game.
From high up in the rafters screams a frustrated, disbelieving T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
"DUAAAAAAAAAANE KIIIIIIIING!!!!"
Fran sends in Duane King.
Duane King scores on a layup.
"THANK YOU, FRAN."
Duane King misses a defensive assignment and Temple scores an easy two.
Duane King sits down, never to be seen again.
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