Joe.Yemly
Freshman
Posts: 27
Age: 38
Reg: 03-08-17
|
01-21-24 11:25 AM - Post#361943
What has been the highlight of the men's program since McLaughlin took over? I liked the hire at the time, but goodness we just seem stuck in the mud. It's going to be difficult to get to 10 wins this season - should not be acceptable.
Just don't seem to be doing anything well.
|
Greenhorn
Senior
Posts: 321
Reg: 11-24-04
|
01-21-24 07:40 PM - Post#361979
In response to Joe.Yemly
we're pretty good at losing.
|
Ever True
Junior
Posts: 255
Age: 28
Reg: 02-02-15
|
01-21-24 09:12 PM - Post#361983
In response to Greenhorn
Beating two top 100 teams in Princeton and Yale last season wasn't too bad.
|
GoBigGreenBasketball
Masters Student
Posts: 806
Age: 52
Reg: 05-19-16
|
01-21-24 09:40 PM - Post#361984
In response to Greenhorn
I feel bad for the guys. It's hard on their psyche to suffer so many losses. What does the inflection point look like before change comes to Dartmouth basketball?
| "...no excuses - only results!†|
|
flinder
Freshman
Posts: 73
Age: 45
Reg: 11-16-16
|
01-22-24 02:09 AM - Post#361989
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
They showed promise last year. This year just feels lackluster and desultory. It's frustrating to be a program that hasn't won a league title since 1960, and hasn't been able to qualify for the league's postseason tournament since its inception. What's the pitch to players with options?
I hope McLaughlin can turn things around; the biggest loser if this season ends with his departure might be Hanover High School, whose soccer and basketball teams have been greatly buoyed by his kids' athletic prowess.
I wonder if Dartmouth's recruiting tactics should focus more on finding kids from small towns and rural settings, who might choose a place like Dartmouth over more urban Ivies.
|
CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
|
Re: Men's Program
01-22-24 07:40 AM - Post#361992
In response to Joe.Yemly
The fact is Dartmouth MBB's brand is being bad at basketball. McLaughlin is no worse than the past several coaches from a record perspective. It is well known that Dartmouth's admissions department is now, and has been, one of the last cooperative in the Ivys so any coach starts with one hand tied behind his back.
No season over .500 this century. Read that again.
|
Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
|
Re: Men's Program
01-22-24 10:36 AM - Post#361998
In response to Joe.Yemly
What has been the highlight of the men's program since McLaughlin took over?
That's easy.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/game/...
True, it didn't look as good by the end of the season. But it was definitely fun at the time!
|
Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
|
Re: Men's Program
01-22-24 10:38 AM - Post#361999
In response to CM
The fact is Dartmouth MBB's brand is being bad at basketball. McLaughlin is no worse than the past several coaches from a record perspective. It is well known that Dartmouth's admissions department is now, and has been, one of the last cooperative in the Ivys so any coach starts with one hand tied behind his back.
Other than Craig Austin, which Dartmouth MBB recruits have been denied by admissions?
|
Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
|
01-22-24 10:44 AM - Post#362000
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
- GoBigGreenBasketball Said:
I feel bad for the guys. It's hard on their psyche to suffer so many losses. What does the inflection point look like before change comes to Dartmouth basketball?
Mike Harrity already showed little patience with a losing basketball culture by running Shibles out of town last year.
I would not expect him to hold back on parting ways with McLaughlin as well if the team continues to lose...
|
HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2692
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
|
Men's Program
01-22-24 02:22 PM - Post#362011
In response to Go Green
Regardless, we in and around Cambridge have our own favorite Dartmouth Men's Basketball moment and remain eternally grateful!
https://dartmouthsports.com/news/2015/3/7/2099337 6...
Unfortunately, it was this miraculous ending the begat the Ivy Tournament!
By the way, the Yale team(22-10, 11-3) you beat was much better than the referenced Georgetown team (6-25, 0-19).
Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 01-22-24 02:32 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
|
01-22-24 02:32 PM - Post#362013
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
That came under Cormier, not McLaughlin.
And as I said on the Voy Board earlier today, it was a mistake letting Cormier go. He was one of the best in-game coaches that the league has ever seen...
Ah, well...
|
HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2692
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
|
01-22-24 02:39 PM - Post#362015
In response to Go Green
I recall 5'9" guard Malik Gill neutralizing Wes Saunders for a Dartmouth upset of a very good Harvard squad. Saunders used to like to dribble and back into his defender, only to sink his turn around fade-away jumper. Gill completely crowded Saunders and upset his rythm so that the much taller Saunders simply couldn't dribble himself into scoring position.
That was game coaching!
|
CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
|
Re: Men's Program
01-22-24 04:54 PM - Post#362019
In response to Go Green
That's not how it works - getting outright denied admissions. The Ivy basketball world is tiny, nothing is secret. The fact is Dartmouth MBB doesn't even bother recruiting certain players - either because their AAU/HS coach tells Dartmouth coaches not to bother or the coaches themselves know not to bother. The coaches know ahead of time, based on their history of recruiting, which kids can and cannot expect to get help from admissions.
As well, Dartmouth is not known for winning basketball or a place that values winning basketball, so top kids who have the grades to get into an Ivy and want to win games aren't even going to consider Dartmouth. I personally know kids who played at the top Ivys and none of the ever gave going to Hanover a thought.
|
GoBigGreenBasketball
Masters Student
Posts: 806
Age: 52
Reg: 05-19-16
|
01-22-24 06:33 PM - Post#362022
In response to Go Green
DePaul fires Tony Stubblefield after 3-15 start to season.
I wonder if there was more to this. Letting a coach go during the season is tough, even with that record. Didn't one of our out of conference rivals recently replace their HCb after repeated years of poor performance?
| "...no excuses - only results!†|
|
Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
|
Re: Men's Program
01-23-24 06:18 AM - Post#362027
In response to CM
That's not how it works - getting outright denied admissions. The Ivy basketball world is tiny, nothing is secret. The fact is Dartmouth MBB doesn't even bother recruiting certain players - either because their AAU/HS coach tells Dartmouth coaches not to bother or the coaches themselves know not to bother. The coaches know ahead of time, based on their history of recruiting, which kids can and cannot expect to get help from admissions.
Whether or not kids want to come to Hanover is an entirely separate issue from admissions.
But I got to push back on this. Dartmouth football's recruiting has been excellent since roughly 2010. We routinely get 10-15 guys a year who have offers from FBS (sometimes BCS) schools. This current year could be the best yet.
If there is a reason why Dartmouth admissions is working well with football, but giving MBB a hard time... I can't come up with it.
|
CM
Masters Student
Posts: 423
Reg: 10-11-18
|
Re: Men's Program
01-23-24 07:08 AM - Post#362028
In response to Go Green
I can answer that. Football is THE priority sport at Dartmouth, this is well known.
Dartmouth is pretty bad at most sports these days and it cannot just be because they're hiring bad coaches across every discipline:
https://www.vnews.com/dartmouth-sports-anal ysis-51...
|
Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
|
01-23-24 07:18 AM - Post#362029
In response to CM
Should also mention that former WBB coach Koclanes complained several times publicly about how difficult it was to recruit kids to Hanover.
She never said a thing about admissions being difficult.
Neither has any other Dartmouth coach since Furstenburg left.
|
Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
|
Re: Men's Program
01-23-24 09:42 AM - Post#362030
In response to CM
I can answer that. Football is THE priority sport at Dartmouth, this is well known.
Dartmouth is pretty bad at most sports these days and it cannot just be because they're hiring bad coaches across every discipline:
Of course it isn't.
But its poor reasoning to automatically conclude that admissions must be the culprit.
Far more logical is that Dartmouth is sponsoring too many sports and we don't have the resources to compete with some of our Ivy brethren. The former AD attempted to contract some sports--most of which have been underperforming forever--that would have freed up resources (admissions slots, $$$) for remaining sports.
Unfortunately, we screwed it up and relented under threats of lawsuits. So we have to keep on carrying some deadweight sports...
Money matters. Dartmouth has had good coaches (soccer, softball, WLAX) poached by higher programs. Had we been able to pay them more, we'd have a lot more titles. We might be able to do better in basketball than hiring D-III coaches (McLaughlin, Shibles).
And I assure you that there have been plenty of coaches who have complained about admissions. Cozza and Banghart come to mind, but others exist. None of them have come from Dartmouth since Furstenburg (who hated athletics) left our admissions office.
In short, I think you're going to need more than "the teams aren't doing well" to claim that admissions is the problem.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32834
Reg: 11-21-04
|
01-23-24 02:18 PM - Post#362036
In response to Go Green
No Question that Cormier was a great in-game coach. A major mistake by the Dartmouth AD and it appears to have been a bit of a personal thing, if I recall the quotes at the time. I was always afraid of Dartmouth when he was the coach
|
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3669
Reg: 02-06-10
|
Men's Program
01-23-24 03:46 PM - Post#362043
In response to palestra38
First and foremost, Dartmouth has to find hidden gem recruits who can transform their team. Even compared to other Ivies, the Big Green is at a disadvantage and is going to lose out on top recruits. So they have to go out of the box to find their stars. Not easy, but it's possible.
Elite talents like Tosan Evbuomwan and Xaivian Lee were right there for anyone to get. Tosan emailed every single Ivy and only Princeton replied. We got lucky with Xaivian, who was recommended by Jaelin Llewellyn's dad. Even so, Princeton was his only offer and he might have signed elsewhere if someone else got to him first. Lightly recruited kids favor the first program to express interest.
As for a new head coach, Dartmouth should overpay to hire our lead assistant Brett MacConnell. It's well known that he wants to be a head coach in the very near future and Brian Earl has already proven the merits of the Mitch Henderson coaching tree. I'd hate to lose MacConnell AND Earl to fellow Ivies, but he would be such a great get for Dartmouth.
|
