penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21212
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-21-24 02:26 PM - Post#363711
In response to ToothlessTiger
You can make a case that Donahue had already lost the team based on Dingle's departure followed by Martz's. As well as not really being able to nail down recruits.
Yes, the remaining players play hard, but if the key guys choose not to stay to play for you (or come to play for you in the first place), that is not a good look.
Scott just has not been a good coach, period. At least, not so far in the college ranks. Donahue had a decent track record as a Penn assistant during the glory days followed by his work at Cornell. The BC stint in retrospect should have been a warning sign of things to come.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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02-21-24 03:23 PM - Post#363713
In response to penn nation
Penn has an assistant coach who does a whole lot of yelling at the kids…
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2275
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-21-24 03:35 PM - Post#363714
In response to penn nation
Scott just has not been a good coach, period. At least, not so far in the college ranks.
From his bio at Air Force:
Scott first came to the Academy in 2001, taking over a program that had not had a winning season in 22 years and led it to new levels of success. In just four seasons he led the Falcons to their only Mountain West regular season title, first NCAA tournament appearance in 42 years, a top 25 national ranking and a then-school-record 22 wins. He was named MW coach of the year, National Association of Basketball Coaches (NABC) coach of the year and finished fourth in the balloting for Associated Press national coach of the year in 2004. Scott compiled a 22-4 (.846) record at home over his final two seasons, including a 3-0 mark in 2003-04.
Italics are mine.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32835
Reg: 11-21-04
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Pitino and Penn
02-21-24 03:38 PM - Post#363715
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
But since that time.....
2 good seasons in 16.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21212
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-21-24 03:39 PM - Post#363716
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
His first three seasons he went a cumulative 9-33 in conference and 39-55 overall. His 4th year there in his first Air Force stint was his one and only success story there.
In his second Air Force stint, over the past 4 years he has gone 13-54 in conference and 38-72 overall.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3671
Reg: 02-06-10
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Pitino and Penn
02-21-24 04:12 PM - Post#363718
In response to penn nation
It's shocking how bad Joe Scott was. No current Ivy HC deserves to be compared to him.
JT3 handed him a 20-8 (13-1) league champion that returned 4 starters and received votes in the 2004-5 Preseason Top 25 polls. Scott proceeded to go 15-13 overall and 6-8 in Ivy play in a much, much weaker league than we have now.
The next season, Scott TWICE brought national humiliation to the program. First by losing to D-3 Carnegie Mellon and then by scoring a record-low 21 points in a loss to Monmouth. It took years to recover from the toxic situation he created.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21212
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Pitino and Penn
02-21-24 04:23 PM - Post#363719
In response to gokinsmen
My (Incarnate) Word.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4914
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-21-24 05:48 PM - Post#363720
In response to penn nation
Scott also outperformed at the University of Denver despite horrible, shifting conference affiliations. His replacements have cratered there.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21212
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-21-24 06:23 PM - Post#363721
In response to SRP
And anyone else who has coached at Air Force in the past 25 years has done a consistently better job than Scott.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2275
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Pitino and Penn
02-21-24 09:18 PM - Post#363726
In response to gokinsmen
JT3 handed him a 20-8 (13-1) league champion that returned 4 starters and received votes in the 2004-5 Preseason Top 25 polls. Scott proceeded to go 15-13 overall and 6-8 in Ivy play in a much, much weaker league than we have now.
I'm NOT defending Scott; just pointing out he has succeeded at times.
But yes, that team he inherited was very good. I flew down to Durham to see them play Duke (having seen them in person several times the previous year), and was shocked to see how much the team had changed, becoming tentative, and constantly looking over to the bench. Not surprised at what followed.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4914
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-22-24 06:17 AM - Post#363737
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
Nobody but Scott has ever succeeded at Air Force. This year’s team is among the youngest in D1, playing in a league full of seniors and fifth-year transfers.
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LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts: 434
Age: 58
Reg: 11-15-17
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02-22-24 09:18 AM - Post#363742
In response to SRP
Chris mooney was 18-12 inn his one year at Air Force.
I guess Princeton guys can get it done anywhere.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-22-24 07:44 PM - Post#363786
In response to palestra38
I don’t think that’s true. Ivy tournament or not, 3rd or 4th place is better than 5th, 6th, or 7th. Miller and Allen’s team were in the bottom half of the league the majority of the time. Donahue is looking at his first time in the bottom half of the league this year.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32835
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-22-24 09:29 PM - Post#363790
In response to SomeGuy
In the pre-ILT era, it made no difference if you finished anywhere but 1st. But the tournament has made mediocre performance acceptable.
Not anymore.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-24 01:20 PM - Post#363804
In response to palestra38
In the pre-ILT era, it made no difference if you finished anywhere but 1st. But the tournament has made mediocre performance acceptable.
Not anymore.
Hello, welcome to the frustrated Penn basketball fan club. Some of us have been here for a while. I'd say glad to have you, but that's not quite the right sentiment.
I'd also like to tell you it gets better (you do get to save time from choosing not to watch, which is a plus), but it likely is going to get worse before it gets better (assuming we even care at that point).
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Cvonvorys
Postdoc
Posts: 4484
Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
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02-23-24 01:52 PM - Post#363805
In response to Mike Porter
How does it get worse?
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8258
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-24 02:29 PM - Post#363809
In response to Cvonvorys
You become completely uncompetitive.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2139
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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02-23-24 10:40 PM - Post#363847
In response to Streamers
Aren't we already there?
Two wins against Dartmouth don't count for much.
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