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Username Post: New Transfer        (Topic#28049)
weinhauers_ghost 
Postdoc
Posts: 2144

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
05-04-24 06:50 AM - Post#368111    
    In response to Penndemonium

  • Penndemonium Said:
Yeah, we'll have some competition at guard now - though we'll have little continuity or veteran leadership.

Dylan has a .435/.403/.778 stat line. I liked his video.




I think we're entering a phase where "lack of continuity" is going to be the new normal. The veteran leadership issue you point out will be a problem. Slajchert's departure leaves a void. Who among next year's senior class will step up? Smith? Spinoso? McMullen? Holland? Thrower is the only rising junior with any real game experience to speak of, even though he was out of the rotation much of last season. Sam Brown, as a sophomore?

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3781

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
05-04-24 10:44 AM - Post#368114    
    In response to weinhauers_ghost

  • weinhauers_ghost Said:

I think we're entering a phase where "lack of continuity" is going to be the new normal.



Harumph. I was going to say exactly that. Unless there's a major, conference-wide policy change, Ivy programs are going to need largely to rebuild every year. Veteran leadership will have to come from players who aren't good enough to attract much interest outside of the conference. Talented players will be constantly entering and leaving. The coaches will need to retool and simplify their offensive and defensive schemes such that their most talented players will be able to get the hang of things on both ends of the court pretty much immediately, as those players are unlikely to be around for more than a season or two.

It's a new world, Golda.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6415

Reg: 11-22-04
05-04-24 12:11 PM - Post#368116    
    In response to mbaprof

Obviously a new world, so past rosters may not be indicative of the future. But Penn’s roster was about as small as I can recall last year. So we’re adding a few more bodies, but still looking at 17 for next year, which historically isn’t that unsusual. So hopefully we don’t lose players.

 
Penndemonium 
PhD Student
Posts: 1903

Reg: 11-29-04
New Transfer
05-04-24 02:29 PM - Post#368119    
    In response to SomeGuy

So how will this affect us on a relative basis to the other Ivies? This puts an even bigger premium on relentless recruiting and game coaching. These haven't necessarily been Donahue's areas of strength.

Teams under his watch have appeared (as an outsider) to be excellent in terms of culture. All of his teams fight to the end and play for each other. The NIL/Transfer era may undermine Donahue's main area of strength. Maybe Donahue will discover resourcefulness or a relatively better pitch than others for this new world. Penn may have something different to offer. Bigger sports city, Big 5, bigger school, Wharton, and Penn network = bigger visibility and opportunities in the Transfer/NIL era. For better or worse, Penn does now have a track record of developing and sending players to major conferences and bigger NIL.

I suspect that the financial aid issues relative to HYP become a larger issue for Penn, though. Old arguments about how education will pay back the lack of scholarships in the long run are now dead. A shorter term stint means the value of the degree doesn't matter. Matching HYP aid vs. formulaic policy based aid will be a detriment in the maelstrom of applications and transfers. I wasn't sure of that before, but now I have a much better vantage point. For those that have argued that financial aid policy disparity was not an issue, I can now say with confidence that you were wrong about that.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4921

Reg: 02-04-06
05-04-24 03:20 PM - Post#368122    
    In response to Penndemonium

Penn actually takes transfers. Princeton historically takes very few, whether athletes or not, so the Quakers have a structural advantage there that would weigh against financial aid disadvantages.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6415

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: New Transfer
05-04-24 03:42 PM - Post#368123    
    In response to Penndemonium

I don’t think the arguments about the longterm value of the education are dead. Yes, we had a number of important transfers, and that is new. So it is no longer true that the longterm value of the degree nearly always wins out. But it still often wins out, as it appears it did for Pierce, Lee, Mbeng, Poulakidas, Lilly, and Nana. And for Rubio de la Rosa, Spinoso, and Brown at the next tier of players. More players are staying than going, and some of the guys who are staying presumably would have big NIL opportunities.

On the situation for Penn in particular, Penn may have a first mover advantage regarding transfers. If it works, presumably other Ivy schools would step more aggressively into the space. And then we would see whether the HYP advantages would come into play on portal recruiting in the way they do coming out of high school.

 
slane 
Freshman
Posts: 72

Reg: 02-09-05
05-05-24 11:53 PM - Post#368159    
    In response to SomeGuy

Interesting read:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/ne ws/...

 
Penndemonium 
PhD Student
Posts: 1903

Reg: 11-29-04
05-06-24 12:17 AM - Post#368160    
    In response to SRP

  • SRP Said:
Penn actually takes transfers. Princeton historically takes very few, whether athletes or not, so the Quakers have a structural advantage there that would weigh against financial aid disadvantages.



Penn may not have had a moratorium on transfers, but generally took few as well. More importantly, there have been very few impact transfers over the last 20 years. Moshkovitz and Caleb Wood are the best I can think of from that period. It mainly filled desperate needs rather than bringing stars to the team. It has not been a meaningful offset to financial aid disparities in any recent time.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4921

Reg: 02-04-06
05-07-24 07:20 PM - Post#368223    
    In response to Penndemonium

My point was that Donahue gets to make a strategic choice about whether to go for transfers because Penn the university is open to them. HYP as universities accept very few transfers for any reason.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32906

Reg: 11-21-04
05-07-24 08:46 PM - Post#368225    
    In response to SRP

All three state on their websites that they accept transfer students, albeit in small numbers. So the decision not to accept transfers for basketball is something at odds with institutional policy and can be changed.

 
JDP 
Masters Student
Posts: 581

Reg: 11-23-04
New Transfer
05-07-24 09:57 PM - Post#368226    
    In response to palestra38

Each school has institutional advantages and disadvantages that benefit and hinder their basketball programs. Some may have more access to transfers, some have better financial aid policies. We all need to optimize for our own circumstances. The Ivy League is not a level playing field.

I will point out that the Harvard women's basketball program consistently has been adding transfers from Power 5 conferences.

Yale women's basketball added a transfer from Wisconsin for the 24-25 campaign.

Columbia women's basketball also has been very active in the transfer portal.

Edited by JDP on 05-07-24 10:05 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3590

Reg: 02-15-15
05-08-24 10:10 PM - Post#368250    
    In response to JDP

Yale's Simmons is a transfer from Northwestern no?

 
weinhauers_ghost 
Postdoc
Posts: 2144

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
05-08-24 10:34 PM - Post#368251    
    In response to PennFan10

  • PennFan10 Said:
Yale's Simmons is a transfer from Northwestern no?



He is. He'd be a lot more dangerous if he had an offensive game.

 
mobrien 
Masters Student
Posts: 403

Loc: New York
Reg: 04-18-17
Re: New Transfer
05-10-24 11:11 AM - Post#368285    
    In response to JDP

That's an interesting point about the women's teams getting so many transfers. I'm not sure how much the men's teams can emulate it though. There's so little money in women's NIL that the transfer portal is an even playing ground for Ivy teams. That's not true for the men.

That doesn't mean the men's teams should give up on transfers. Just that you'd be looking for guys who were either hurt or struggled to get playing time at big schools.

 
CM 
Masters Student
Posts: 437

Reg: 10-11-18
Re: New Transfer
05-10-24 11:33 AM - Post#368286    
    In response to JDP

Columbia WBB's P5 transfer last year scored 4 pts all season and Harvard's P5 transfer averaged 2 ppg. So we cannot assume that just because a kid is coming into the IL from a P5 program that they'll have immediate and profound impact.

 
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