palestra38
Professor
Posts: 34690
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-03-25 03:38 PM - Post#377181
In response to SomeGuy
While anything is possible, I see it far more likely that we lose to all of those teams the 2nd time around than win all of them. We appear to match up well with Columbia and Harvard, but no one else. And every other team is deeper and more athletic. While I will watch until they are mathematically eliminated, does it really matter when the extreme hope is that we sneak into the Madness with a losing record just to get creamed by Yale again?
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 9526
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-03-25 05:02 PM - Post#377184
In response to palestra38
I do not believe sneaking in would be a rewarding experience, but I do think they have a real shot at beating Dartmouth at home if they play to near the top of their capabilities.
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andybech
Sophomore
Posts: 100
Reg: 02-15-20
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02-04-25 03:42 PM - Post#377204
In response to Streamers
I am not sure I see that much athleticism with Foster. Yes he is big and strong and has some length. He just doesn't seem to move that fluidly or be that quick. The hands are also nowhere near as good as the TV announcers imply.
We don't seem to have an obvious starting center next year so hopefully we get something from the recruits.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 9526
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-25 05:22 PM - Post#377207
In response to andybech
I agree about the hands, but he can jump and his footwork at both ends should improve. Of course, that is coming from a casual observer based on a small sample size.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 34690
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-25 05:51 PM - Post#377208
In response to Streamers
The things missing are quickness and toughness. That's what I saw from Brown--a team I think is not getting great floor coaching because they didn't play any defense until 5 minutes were left and suddenly were able to do so. But their guys are all quick and tough. Same for Yale. We're not in the same realm of athleticism ---indeed, even Dartmouth is more athletic than we are. It's just sad.
And it's too bad, because if Roberts --an Andy Toole-like player, had some teammates who the opposition feared, he would light it up. Right now, he's getting beaten up--still having a great season.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6573
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-04-25 08:06 PM - Post#377211
In response to palestra38
Not sure I agree on Brown. They had to shoot 62% from 3 to beat us (and even then it was close). And down the stretch we missed a heck of a lot of layups. We outplayed them outside of the unconscious shooting.
Brown has the same problem against us that Columbia and Harvard do — they don’t have a physical match for Spinoso. Then other team that doesn’t is Princeton. That gives a bit of hope for Friday.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1919
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-25 09:03 PM - Post#377212
In response to SomeGuy
Hello Penn friends. Been hanging on the alternative Ivy hoops site this year so haven't been here in a while. I suspect you'll see a fair amount of a big kid named CJ Happy on Friday night. He looked pretty good in 20 minutes against Yale and started against Brown.
Looking forward to 126-125 after Friday.
Go Tigers!
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6573
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-04-25 09:17 PM - Post#377216
In response to TigerFan
I really do mean just a bit of hope. Didn’t mean to underestimate Happy or Princeton.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1919
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-25 09:22 PM - Post#377217
In response to SomeGuy
Depends on which Princeton team shows up on Friday. The Tigers have looked very soft in the middle in some of their games this year. Your guy Spinosa is a beast.
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Penndemonium
Postdoc
Posts: 2052
Reg: 11-29-04
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02-04-25 11:45 PM - Post#377226
In response to TigerFan
If he made more of his bunnies and free throws, he'd be unstoppable. Really.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 9526
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-05-25 09:52 AM - Post#377231
In response to Penndemonium
Or score with his right hand.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 34690
Reg: 11-21-04
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Yale 1
02-05-25 11:21 AM - Post#377240
In response to Streamers
To me, he's been one of the most disappointing players in terms of the lack of improvement over 4 years. Yes, he's big, but doesn't box well, play very good defense and is by no means dominant. Given his good footwork, he misses an inordinate number of easy shots and is a poor foul shooter.
Look at the senior years of Darien Nelson-Henry and Fran Dougherty and tell me that they both were not more effective even though I think most of us believe Spinoso should be the better player.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/fran-...
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/darie...
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nick-...
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 9526
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-05-25 12:21 PM - Post#377246
In response to palestra38
the only real improvement has been his passing ability unless I am missing something, although his defense can be pretty good depending on his matchup.
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Penndemonium
Postdoc
Posts: 2052
Reg: 11-29-04
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02-05-25 04:26 PM - Post#377262
In response to Streamers
I think Spinoso has improved in many more ways than that - if you compare vs. his Freshman year. If you only compare vs. last year, then I can agree the improvements are mainly passing - and overall confidence/leadership.
He was not a heralded recruit - he was a late add-on to the recruiting class. He did not look like a future impact player his Freshman year. Now, he has transformed his body, has some pretty good spin moves, and has reasonable speed. He's actually got a pretty good feel for the game. If not for a few development areas, he could be an elite league player. That is far more than I expected out of him.
He is probably the main player on our team who seeks contact with the other team. Our team would be much further lost without him. I don't know who will replace him next year. I congratulate him on his development and career at Penn. It would be amazing if he was our third option on offense. As the guy who our offense runs through, he's got to hit free throws and make those bunnies.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 34690
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-05-25 04:37 PM - Post#377264
In response to Penndemonium
Well, I was comparing him with Dougherty and DNH, who I do not believe were any more heralded and were much rawer when they started.
Look, I hate being critical of a kid who is a really good Penn Quaker. I think the criticism belongs more to the coaching staff, who haven't found a way to use a guy with some unique skills for our league in a manner that maximizes his potential.
Like I said before about Roberts, if you put the kinds of players who Penn used to recruit next to them, they'd look a whole lot better. I compared Roberts to Andy Toole, a pretty fair comparison. Roberts doesn't have Ugonna and Koko next to him. Spinoso doesn't have Jordan and Langel. And when you get down to it, that's the major problem--an exponential falloff in recruiting.
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Penndemonium
Postdoc
Posts: 2052
Reg: 11-29-04
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02-05-25 06:10 PM - Post#377265
In response to palestra38
I did a quick look, and his FT% is above 50% for the first time in his career - at 56%. That is actually a meaningful improvement over the prior years.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6573
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-06-25 12:49 AM - Post#377273
In response to palestra38
My memory is that DNH was a heralded recruit. I don’t think Dougherty was.
I agree with the general point about talent level. A lot of our guys would be fine surrounded by more talent.
Finally, Roberts is kind of different from anyone else. He is a much better rebounder and driver than Toole was. In some ways he is more like a few Princeton players over the years (lucky he didn’t go there).
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 34690
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-06-25 08:48 AM - Post#377277
In response to SomeGuy
Disagree strongly that Toole wasn't a great driver--that's what he brought to the team that had a losing record with U and Koko before he got there---a slashing guard who also could shoot the 3. Yes, Roberts gets more rebounds, but in part that is because he doesn't have U and Koko getting all the rebounds.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6573
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-08-25 01:08 AM - Post#377380
In response to TigerFan
Well, I was right that Penn had a shot. I wasn’t right as to why, as Happy more than held his own (though he had some key turnovers, particularly late).
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