palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32879
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-21-04 03:23 PM - Post#8
Oz either is injured or cannot play with top Division 1 guards. Indeed, he was unable to stay with Quinnipiac's shooting guard, necessitating that Ibby play him. In the last two games, Oz has ZERO assists...to me this suggests he is overmatched. Granted, Ibby's 1-17 in these two games is pretty gruesome, but at least he is getting off shots. When he stops pressing, he'll be OK.
If Penn has no effective point guard play, I am very pessimistic about this year. Someone has to direct the offense or it becomes every man for himself. This team isn't nearly good enough to do that. Drexel becomes an extremely important test.
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Brian Martin
Masters Student
Posts: 963
Loc: Washington, DC
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: The Real Message to Be Derived from the Disasters
11-21-04 04:33 PM - Post#9
In response to palestra38
I haven't watched or listened to the games, but from the boxscores it appears that the one player who has improved from last season is Danley.
10 ppg, 4 rpg in 23 min/game making 61% of fg.
Owings is making a similar sophomore leap at Princeton, with his role enhanced by the urgency of Logan's injury.
Danley and Owings were Washington Catholic Athletic Conference rivals at DeMatha and Gonzaga.
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SFlaQuaker
Postdoc
Posts: 2427
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: The Real Message to Be Derived from the Disasters
11-21-04 05:22 PM - Post#10
In response to Brian Martin
I think Danley showed alot of the same skills last year, he just wasn't given enough playing time. The bigger issue is the lack of improvement, at least so far, of the other sophs.
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Domer72
newbie
Posts: 29
Loc: Rural Iowa
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: The Real Message to Be Derived from the Disasters
11-21-04 05:30 PM - Post#11
In response to palestra38
I was very suprised at the Wisconsin outcome. I fully expected Penn to match up better athletically. I thought the Providence game was an aberration. It may be taking some time for all the new parts to jell.
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RIH4life25
newbie
Posts: 6
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: The Real Message to Be Derived from the Disasters
11-21-04 05:53 PM - Post#12
In response to palestra38
If you think Oz is still hurt, what should Fran do, keep going with him or try some new guys out there? It looked like from the box score that penn just couldn't get anything to drop for them, hopefully going back to the palestra will bring up the shooting %'s for this young team.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8316
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: The Real Message to Be Derived from the Disasters
11-21-04 08:06 PM - Post#13
In response to palestra38
I think my worst fears have been realized with regard to what happens to a team without a true PG and a true center when they face a team that has one or both. Thankfully, no Ivy team has both, at least based on what we know now.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Real Message to Be Derived from the Disasters
11-21-04 11:55 PM - Post#14
In response to palestra38
The Real Message?
How about this team is an embarrassment three games into the season. Two back to back 30 point losses by a Penn team is inexcusable, even if we were playing Friday night at Duke and Saturday night at Arizona. That kind of loss should NEVER happen. At least in 00-01 we were realtively close in many of the games we lost on the season opening 8-game streak. I am extremely disheartened by the terrible offensive numbers, and the complete lack of defense. And you wonder why Penn never gets the same level of national respect as Princeton? Maybe it is because PU would never, ever, ever have two back to back results like this, no matter how weak a team the Tigers may have on the floor.
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Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 575
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: The Real Message to Be Derived from the Disasters
11-22-04 01:59 PM - Post#15
In response to
In the past you could always tell two things about Dunphy's teams: They would play good defense and they would play to their talent level. This team is a disappointing surprise: They play poor defense and they underachieve. Or, maybe we overestimated their talent level?
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: The Real Message to Be Derived from the Disasters
11-22-04 03:06 PM - Post#16
In response to Penn90
Not everyone overestimated their talent level. And those who did should remove their rose colored glasses.
Talent makes coaching easy. It will be interesting to see what this coach does with this group.
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Zelto35
newbie
Posts: 36
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: The Real Message to Be Derived from the Disasters
11-22-04 03:39 PM - Post#17
In response to Buckeye Quake
Don't hit the panic button yet. There are a couple of points to keep in mind. First the defense is actually pretty sound. I was at the Providence game and holding Gomes to 10pts was strong. The Prov. shooting was ungodly.
According to the play by play of the Wisconsin game, we were much more aggressive Sat. then we were on Thurs.
Bottom line, bad things happen when you shoot 30%. The lanes close to choke off any penetration, and the opposition can double Begs. Does anyone here think that Ibby will continue to shoot 16%?
When (not if), Ibby, Oz, Kach or Whitehurst start to find the range, the middle will open up and opponents will be less able to focus solely on Begley.
It's early, Dunphy won't panic............neither should we.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4366
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: The Real Message to Be Derived from the Disasters
11-22-04 03:45 PM - Post#18
In response to Zelto35
Agree with everything. Would add that there is a very real connection between making some shots and "playing defense".
Tomorrow night we'll learn more. These last two games were certainly terrible, but all we learned is that this team isn't prepared to stay on the court with a top 25 calibre squad. We probably knew that. In the meantime Yale lost to Radford, Brown dumped a couple games, so it's not like our league breathren are out there impressing anybody early on.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Real Message to Be Derived from the Disasters
11-22-04 04:40 PM - Post#19
In response to AsiaSunset
Just for the record...I haven't given up on anything yet. I am sure the team will normalize itself as the season goes on and that we will be very competitive in the league (I think our frontcourt has to rank up there with Princeton..if Logan is hobbled...as the best in the league). However, that does not eliminate the disappointment and embarrassment of the last two games.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6415
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: The Real Message to Be Derived from the Disasters
11-22-04 05:14 PM - Post#20
In response to
One disturbing thought about the frontcourt silver lining -- how much of that relates to Penn's historical (including last year) success with the 3? What would be nice is if the frontcourt rotation opens up the 3. What would be scary is if the lack of 3pt shooting enables people to collapse in on danley et al.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: The Real Message to Be Derived from the Disasters
11-23-04 03:31 AM - Post#21
In response to AsiaSunset
Sure we knew that. But has it come to the Quakers taking solace in Brown and Yale's weak losses? I hope not.
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