Chuck
Masters Student
Posts: 995
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-29-05 03:07 PM - Post#2904
It was only one game...but, Yale's loss last night and their overall record this year sure seems to point towards a third straight disappointing season. Add to that the pending graduation of his three top scorers and another couple of miserable years seem highly likely. If so, will James Jones stay on at Yale? Will he want to? Will Yale want him to?
It seems to me that turning around a program is all about momentum and, unlike Brown's Miller, Yale's turnaround momentum is gone. They hit a peak and couldn't sustain that level. Ivy schools are traditionally slow to make obviously needed changes in the coaching ranks, but...I'm sad to say that I think the time has probably come for Yale to think about where they're headed.
I make no claims to knowing a whole lot about the internals of the Yale program...just observations from a great distance.
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Anonymous
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Re: How much trouble is Yale's Jones in?
01-29-05 03:54 PM - Post#2905
In response to Chuck
I thought that Yale made poor use of its offensive threats. There was little emphasis on Draughan. I remember one sequence in which he threw the ball to Martin in the post -- and then did nothing. The Yale offense seemed to be based on the notion that a three-guard team like Penn would be vulnerable inside, but it wasn't working. And I think that Jones felt that the team quit -- hence the five-man subsitution after the five-shot sequence at the Penn end.
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light blue heavy
maximus
Posts: 164
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: How much trouble is Yale's Jones in?
01-29-05 08:30 PM - Post#2906
In response to
still think its a little early yet. with the long layoff and an away game at penn, thats basically the toughest in-league situation you're ever going to see.
that said, we'll see. jones certainly hasnt been impressing, but the team finished .500 last year and will probably do so again. i dont think its time yet, either- this team overperformed 3 years ago, and underperformed last year. two mediocre years dont get coaches fired here most times.
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Evin
Freshman
Posts: 15
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: How much trouble is Yale's Jones in?
01-30-05 05:06 PM - Post#2907
In response to light blue heavy
Answer:
Plenty.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: How much trouble is Yale's Jones in?
01-31-05 01:10 AM - Post#2908
In response to Chuck
I don't have any clue either, but I'll throw in a couple of observations/questions. First, Martin will have a semester of eligibility left which he supposedly will use for the 2nd half next year. Second, Jones probably has his best recruiting class coming in next year, so making a move would might be premature.
Finally, I'm curious just how committed the school is to basketball. I think Joe Jones will be in trouble if Columbia doesn't turn around, simply because the school appears committed to making it happen. Brown may also be more institutionally committed (I mean, they started giving out football scholies a few years back!). I just don't know if that's true at Yale. The bump up may have just been on the strength of Jones' personality. So if nobody cares that much, what Jones is doing may be good enough.
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Chuck
Masters Student
Posts: 995
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: How much trouble is Yale's Jones in?
01-31-05 04:06 AM - Post#2909
In response to SomeGuy
Quote:
if nobody cares that much, what Jones is doing may be good enough.
I have no idea, either. It could well come down to exactly how much the powers that be do care. If Jones was brought in to 'turn thing around' rather than simply keeping the school from being humiliated, what he's done might be good enough. That said, no matter how good his incoming class is next year is going to be really tough. (w or w/o Martin). Its got to make that one good year look like a flash in the pan... Is there another established D-I program that's managed to lose three games to D-III opponents in two years? That's got to be some kind of bizarre record...
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Anonymous
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Re: How much trouble is Yale's Jones in?
01-31-05 05:16 PM - Post#2910
In response to Chuck
What D-III teams did they lose to?
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Chuck
Masters Student
Posts: 995
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: How much trouble is Yale's Jones in?
01-31-05 06:01 PM - Post#2911
In response to
Actually they lost to two...both down in SC, last year I think. For some reason I though that Radford was D-III and counted that, too. Radford's not...my mistake. Sorry...
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Sponge
newbie
Posts: 5
Loc: Gainesville, FL
Reg: 01-15-05
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Re: How much trouble is Yale's Jones in?
01-31-05 07:51 PM - Post#2912
In response to Chuck
James Jones looks to be following a common pattern in college and professional sports these days: becoming a victim of his own success. Team expectations get set because of success. James Jones had a great season and did a great job recruiting, and thus he is held accountable for poor performance. If he had recruited lesser players, he probably wouldn't be in hot water right now.
I am a huge fan of his brother Joe, but I can't help but wonder what could happen in three or four years if Columbia hovers in 5th-7th place if they manage to finish in the top 3-4 this year.
I can think of so many coaches/managers of the year who were fired within three years of winning that award. Jack McKeon with the Reds, Jimy Williams with the Red Sox, Dom Capers with Carolina to name a few. I almost wonder if quick success is detrimental...just a thought.
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YaleEli
goober
Posts: 62
Loc: Greenwich, CT
Reg: 12-07-04
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Re: How much trouble is Yale's Jones in?
02-01-05 06:22 PM - Post#2913
In response to Sponge
If you know anything about Ivy Basketball (which most of the people who post on this site do) and the Yale program, then you would know that James Jones is not in trouble with regards to losing his job. Prior to the Jones regime, Dick Kuchen stayed at Yale for 13 years and proceeded to keep this program as the laughingstock of the league during the last ten years of his tenure.
I believe the Yale administration is committed to building a winning program since they recently gave Jones an extension on his contract and more "flexibility" in going after the players he wants during the recruiting period. The bottom line is that it's extremely difficult to recruit consistently in the Ivy League, and it is even harder to maintain a high level of winning every year unless you get a coach to stay and make his mark at the school.
Yale can certainly try to schedule a softer caliber of teams in the future (see Columbia example) to increase the wins/losses during the non-conference portion. However, other schools will use that to recruit against them. Winning is contagious at the college level. Since Penn and Princeton have had a headstart on building winning traditions over the 30 years, they will always have an advantage at recruiting the "cream of the crop". It is not unlike Yale's dominance in football during the late 60s and 70s when they were either ranked or getting votes in the top twenty in D1-A almost every year.
I am certainly pissed that the program has not been able to sustain the success it realized in 2001-2002. But, as a long suffering fan, it is certainly better to have the program "relevant" and raising the expectations of students and alumni versus the irrelevance of this program since the mid-1990s.
If Jones wants to stay at Yale and build a winning tradition, it will probably be his call versus the administration pulling the plug on him. It's not what happens at this school.
P.S. He should have taken the Washington Huskies position when he was in the running after the 2002 season. I hope he stays, though, because he brings a great deal of exuberance to fans and alumni alike.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3998
Reg: 11-23-04
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Re: How much trouble is Yale's Jones in?
02-01-05 07:13 PM - Post#2914
In response to SomeGuy
Quote:
Brown may also be more institutionally committed (I mean, they started giving out football scholies a few years back!).
What?
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Anonymous
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Re: How much trouble is Yale's Jones in?
02-01-05 07:20 PM - Post#2915
In response to YaleEli
Dick Kuchen? Not *the* Dick Kuchen, the one who was coach at Cal in the 1970s and was a total disaster? It's odd; he had been a good coach at the University of Pacific (which, strangely enough, is located in Stockton, a mountain range away from the ocean!), but he couldn't succeed at Cal. Is this Yale's Dick Kuchen?
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BRHPr91
goober
Posts: 75
Loc: Rochester, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: How much trouble is Yale's Jones in?
02-01-05 09:13 PM - Post#2916
In response to
Quote:
Dick Kuchen? Not *the* Dick Kuchen, the one who was coach at Cal in the 1970s and was a total disaster? It's odd; he had been a good coach at the University of Pacific (which, strangely enough, is located in Stockton, a mountain range away from the ocean!), but he couldn't succeed at Cal. Is this Yale's Dick Kuchen?
From the Yale Daily News after Kuchen's firing:
Quote:
Prior to his arrival at Yale, Kuchen was the head coach at the University of California from 1978-85. Before taking over at Cal, Kuchen was an assistant at Iowa under Lute Olsen from 1970-75 and at Notre Dame from 1975-78, where in his final season, under head coach Digger Phelps, he helped direct the Irish to their only Final Four.
My overriding memory of Kuchen comes from 1989 or 1990, when, down 15 points to Princeton with six seconds left... he... called a timeout.
| The fans may or may not like a lot of passing, but I know they don't like losing. -- Pete Carril |
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