Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-21-07 02:32 PM - Post#33912
Interested to hear what the reaction would be if Princeton decided to consider candidates a) without a Princeton connection and/or b) that wouldn't run a Princeton offense.
I do think it's worth thinking out of the box on this one, at least in the initial casting of the net.
How would the Princeton community respond?
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The Willow
Masters Student
Posts: 402
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Would Princeton consider going... non-Princeton?
03-21-07 03:03 PM - Post#33913
In response to Bruno
like this: "LALALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!"
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mmp629
Junior
Posts: 259
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Would Princeton consider going... non-Princeton?
03-21-07 03:19 PM - Post#33914
In response to The Willow
We want a good coach. Period. After the Scott debacle, I think many would welcome an "out-sider.
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Philsoc8
Freshman
Posts: 40
Reg: 12-23-05
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Re: Would Princeton consider going... non-Princeton?
03-21-07 05:23 PM - Post#33915
In response to mmp629
I see no particular need to get Princeton coach, in terms of someone being an alumnus or even having coached in the system. HOWEVER, whoever is going to be the coach is inheriting a team full of players who have been recruited because they fit the Princeton mold, or chose Princeton because they wanted to play a certain way. Heck, the two starting guards were recruited because they played for a high school that ran this offense. It wouldn't make much sense to bring in a run-and-gun guy to coach these players.
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SFlaQuaker
Postdoc
Posts: 2427
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Would Princeton consider going... non-Princeton?
03-21-07 05:27 PM - Post#33916
In response to Philsoc8
One of the starting guards is not a D-I quality player, and would be pretty easy to replace.
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Chuck
Masters Student
Posts: 995
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Would Princeton consider going... non-Princeton?
03-21-07 05:53 PM - Post#33917
In response to Philsoc8
I don't think you have to worry about bringing in a "run and gun" guy...but, finding someone that isn't wedded to "the system" would open up recruiting and allow PU to bring in better athletes with a broader set of skills.
As far as the kids in the program go, I don't think you should worry about their attitude or ability to adapt to a different offensive system. They're basketball players, if they haven't had enough of "the system" after 3 years of Scott there's something wrong.
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Red n Blue
Masters Student
Posts: 898
Loc: South Jersey
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: Would Princeton consider going... non-Princeton?
03-21-07 05:57 PM - Post#33918
In response to Chuck
Quote:
As far as the kids in the program go, I don't think you should worry about their attitude or ability to adapt to a different offensive system. They're basketball players, if they haven't had enough of "the system" after 3 years of Scott there's something wrong.
I don't think that goes for Schroeder and Gunn who had both been playing "the system" in High School. However, given the performance of the team over the past year, a new coach may want to replace at least one of the guards anyway.
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Stripes
Freshman
Posts: 62
Loc: Boston
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Would Princeton consider going... non-Princeton?
03-21-07 07:07 PM - Post#33919
In response to SFlaQuaker
Quote:
One of the starting guards is not a D-I quality player, and would be pretty easy to replace.
Which one?
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SFlaQuaker
Postdoc
Posts: 2427
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Would Princeton consider going... non-Princeton?
03-21-07 07:17 PM - Post#33920
In response to Stripes
Schroeder.
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Chuck
Masters Student
Posts: 995
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Would Princeton consider going... non-Princeton?
03-21-07 07:47 PM - Post#33921
In response to Red n Blue
I've seen and played ball with a lot of college kids over the years (not so much any more...of course) and I don't care what kind of "system" they played organized ball in, they ALL LIKE TO SHOOT!!! You don't get interested in bball and stay with it up the ranks of organized ball because you like to dribble around in circles or like to stand near half-court and dribble while time goes by. Trust me...kids will much more easily adapt to an up-tempo game than they do to a down-tempo game (as we all witnessed during Mr. Scott's first year at PU).
Is it true that Walter's final words at the press conference were "Beam Scottie Up...Energize!"???
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Red n Blue
Masters Student
Posts: 898
Loc: South Jersey
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: Would Princeton consider going... non-Princeton?
03-21-07 07:52 PM - Post#33922
In response to Chuck
I used to like to try to play Princeton style basketball because it looked like it involved a lot of walking and standing around (as compared to run and gun). I was (and am) tremendously unathletic, so the concept of a less strenous way of playing basketball was very appealing. But of course I was never the type of player that any college program would ever want to recruit (5'6", poor shooter, slow, reasonable passer and dribbler).
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Dmon826
Masters Student
Posts: 637
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 01-15-06
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Re: Would Princeton consider going... non-Princeton?
03-21-07 07:54 PM - Post#33923
In response to Red n Blue
don't sell yourself short. you coulda thrown on some warmups, hopped right into the princeton layup line, and nobody could tell the difference.
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Stripes
Freshman
Posts: 62
Loc: Boston
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Would Princeton consider going... non-Princeton?
03-21-07 08:16 PM - Post#33924
In response to SFlaQuaker
Quote:
Schroeder.
I wondered. I think Schroeder will end up being the better of the two. He was asked to be too much as a Freshman and did okay overall, I think. And there is often a big jump from Freshman to Sophomore at Princeton. Of course, this would assume the new guy continued to run some sort of the Princeton stuff.
I think there is no question that Schroeder was a much, much better player than Scott Greenman was as a Freshman. And we saw how much he grew (figuratively).
That said, I like all you Penn guys talking about how Schroeder stinks and that he was just Scott's guy and that he won't play for the next guy. Maybe, just maybe, Peterson is out there reading all of this and believing you guys. Thanks for the help.
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Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Would Princeton consider going... non-Princeton?
03-21-07 08:21 PM - Post#33925
In response to Philsoc8
Quote:
I see no particular need to get Princeton coach, in terms of someone being an alumnus or even having coached in the system. HOWEVER, whoever is going to be the coach is inheriting a team full of players who have been recruited because they fit the Princeton mold, or chose Princeton because they wanted to play a certain way. Heck, the two starting guards were recruited because they played for a high school that ran this offense. It wouldn't make much sense to bring in a run-and-gun guy to coach these players.
The starting guards were 2-12 and freshman or not, are the least talented, least athletic guys in the Ivy League. If they get twice as good over the summer that brings them to 4-10. If a new coach came in and played run-and-gun in a rebuilding year how much worse could they go than 2-12?
Basketball is obviously still important at Princeton or Scott wouldn't have jumped while Walters pushed. The new coach can't worry about Lincoln Gunn. He's got to make Princeton an attractive place to come play basketball.
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Stripes
Freshman
Posts: 62
Loc: Boston
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Would Princeton consider going... non-Princeton?
03-21-07 11:11 PM - Post#33926
In response to Howard Gensler
Quote:
The starting guards were 2-12 and freshman or not, are the least talented, least athletic guys in the Ivy League. If they get twice as good over the summer that brings them to 4-10. If a new coach came in and played run-and-gun in a rebuilding year how much worse could they go than 2-12?
Howard, I know you like to tweak, but you are also generally reasonable in your statements. And you generally don't make silly statements like the one above talking about what happens if they get twice as good (or maybe that was a feeble attempt at a joke?? hard to know). As for the general statement, do you really mean this? Do you mean of the 120 players in the league these two are the least athletic and least talented? Surely you wouldn't suggest Jason Briggs or Nick Lake are more athletic and more talented, would you? So maybe you mean of the 16 starting guards in the league these two are the least athletic and least talented...is that it? And of those how many are Freshmen (including any "First Year's" from Columbia)? How many times did you see them play?
For certain Schroeder and Gunn weren't the best Freshmen in the league and were very streaky during the year. But they both had very promising moments - a lot of them. Of all the things wrong with Princeton basketball, these two aren't high on my list. Schroeder is a solid ballhandler, Gunn can shoot. Give me a 3 who can shoot and a 4 who can bang and a 5 who can rebound and pass (and is taller than 6'4") and these two will look twice as good. And the record will be a lot better than 4-10.
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Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Would Princeton consider going... non-Princeton?
03-22-07 12:09 AM - Post#33927
In response to Stripes
I saw Princeton play a few times in person this year and saw every other Ivy play twice in person. If I was building an Ivy team from scratch and could draft any guards I wanted in the League from those that started, I honestly can't say that Schroeder and Gunn wouldn't be my 15th and 16th picks. Take the graduating seniors out of that group - Jaaber, Pattman, Hughes, Becker - and I really can't say they move up. Leaving my Penn bias out of it, at PG you'd have to take Flato and Housman and Dale over Schroeder - that's no contest. I'm not a huge Loscalzo fan but I think he's better and Columbia's frosh PG, Bulger, did more with far less playing time. Dartmouth's PGs are also young and not that big but they're quick and athleticism helps. I'm not sure what Brown has coming off the bench at the point - I might take Schroeder over Gruber because he's so small - but at the 2G Huffman is way better than Gunn, as is Wittman, whatever combo of 2Gs Columbia tosses out, and that Harvard 2G is no great shakes but he played with some toughness and consistency.
The fact that Gunn and Schroeder are freshmen certainly gives them some upside but I just don't see that much upside (Finley has upside if he can put on some weight and improve his defensive footwork). Schroeder can handle the ball but does little with it. Gunn can shoot - sometimes - but doesn't do much else and neither is a lockdown defender. Any player who plays as much as they did is going to have promising moments - I could make you a Kevin Egee highlight reel that would make anything those two did pale in comparison - but how many promising moments could they have had on a 2-12 Ivy team?
Sure if Koncz were healthy, you had a physical power forward and a better center they would have been better but what team couldn't say that? If Penn was better at the 3, 4 and 5, the Quakers would still be playing.
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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It's getting a little chippy in here....
03-22-07 12:16 AM - Post#33928
In response to Dmon826
Lots of cheap shots here, guys. I know that (some of) the Penn guys have years of pent-up resentment because Princeton has traditionally had more national recognition than Penn - despite Penn's comparable roster of accomplishment - but this thread has turned into kicking the dog while he's down.
Clearly, (some of) the Penn guys are loving this. Enjoy.
By the way, if the other P takes our head coach for the second year in a row, I'll be the chippiest of the bunch. But, I'll have good reason to be.
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Red n Blue
Masters Student
Posts: 898
Loc: South Jersey
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: It's getting a little chippy in here....
03-22-07 06:13 PM - Post#33929
In response to Bruno
I see no reason to trash Princeton players when the real question on the floor is who is the best person for the coaching job. The 2-12 can't be entirely due to Joe Scott's game decisions so I think that it is a given that there will be some personnel changes, but there is no need to single out anyone right now. Once a new coach has been chosen he'll be making a lot of changes--if for no other reason because he'll need to break with what has come before.
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: It's getting a little chippy in here....
03-22-07 07:59 PM - Post#33930
In response to Red n Blue
Well said.
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