YaleEli
goober
Posts: 62
Loc: Greenwich, CT
Reg: 12-07-04
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02-14-05 06:51 PM - Post#4216
After Brown's sweep this past weekend, are you still picking them to finish higher than Yale and the other non-Ps?
The nice thing about being recruited by James Jones is that his players tend not to hate his guts when they graduate from the university. Can Coach Miller of Brown U. say the same thing? Moreover, what are the chances that his players will support the program (both financially and returning to games) when their experience was generally depressing?
I'll take our shared Ivy Title, win in the first round of the 2002 NIT against Rutgers and top notch recruiting over Brown's last three (3) years any day of the week!
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BearWithMe
newbie
Posts: 10
Reg: 12-07-04
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Eli
02-14-05 07:08 PM - Post#4217
In response to YaleEli
Brown is struggling this year with some young players, so they may fall to fourth or fifth. I think when the season's over, they will still be ahead of Yale and most of the non-P's.
I've heard nothing about Brown players hating Miller. To the contrary, his players seem to appreciate what he has done for them as players and as a team. I was at the Columbia game and saw Earl Hunt there, and he seemed to be pretty chummy with Miller and the coaching staff.
Congratulations on your NIT win. If Yale continues to fall short of expectations, we'll probably be talking about it for years to come. Personally, I'd rather have a team that competes for a title regularly. Both Brown and Yale have some work to do before either is in that category.
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YaleEli
goober
Posts: 62
Loc: Greenwich, CT
Reg: 12-07-04
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Re: Expectations
02-14-05 07:40 PM - Post#4218
In response to BearWithMe
I guess that's why they play the games -- so that the players can determine who will win/lose and the fans can sit in front of their computer screens b*tching and moaning when the inevitable tough losses occur.
By the way, I see nothing in Brown's current crop of freshmen and sophomores to make the leap that they will be vying for any type of Ivy Championship any time soon. However, I like the freshman triumvirate of Flato and the Two Holmes (in addition to Martin, Hughes and Kaplan) to keep us in the hunt over the next three years.
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SFlaQuaker
Postdoc
Posts: 2427
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Expectations
02-14-05 07:45 PM - Post#4219
In response to YaleEli
Just to clarify, to "keep you in the hunt", you have to first be in the hunt, which hasn't happened since 2002. Brown, on the other hand, has been in the hunt since then.
(I assure you that there was no intended Earl Hunt pun)
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BearWithMe
newbie
Posts: 10
Reg: 12-07-04
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Re: Expectations
02-14-05 08:34 PM - Post#4220
In response to SFlaQuaker
I don't expect either team to make the jump next year. I'd say both are at the head of the non-P's, though. On paper, I wouldn't say that one team is clearly ahead of the other, but in recent years, Brown has outperformed projections, while Yale has failed to live up to pre-season hype.
This season is shaping up to be disappointing for both teams. Beating Harvard and Dartmouth at home is hardly cause for major celebration when you aspire to be at the top of the bracket. Losing to both at home means that you are probably a .500 team at best.
But both teams have young players who will hoepfully develop as the seaason goes on.
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Anonymous
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Re: Expectations
02-14-05 08:37 PM - Post#4221
In response to YaleEli
James Jones has shown no ability to develop solid freshmen (can anyone argue that Gamboa and Draughan have improved since their "championship" freshman seasons?) so what makes you think your solid freshmen of Flato and the two Holmes' will get better with age?
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Anonymous
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Re: Expectations
02-14-05 08:44 PM - Post#4222
In response to
I take back what I said about Draughan...He's had a very nice senior season...but the fact remains that he did not improve his game between his frosh and soph year, and then between his soph and jr years. So my point that you shouldn't assume Jones can develop solid freshmen still stands.
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brownbruin
Freshman
Posts: 50
Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: SFla Quaker
02-14-05 09:40 PM - Post#4223
In response to YaleEli
Why the vitriol, YaleEli? Where's you evidence to support your allegation that Miller's players "hate his guts" or had a "depressing" experience with him? The annual participation of alums in the alumni game would seem to put the lie to your over-the-top allegations. You seem to be very defensive about Brown for some reason. The reality is that for the past several years, Miller's Brown team has overachieved and Jones's Yale team has underachieved. Hardly worthy of the offensive comments found in your post at the top of this thread.
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BrownAlum
Freshman
Posts: 73
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: SFla Quaker
02-15-05 12:17 AM - Post#4224
In response to brownbruin
I am sure that some of Miller's former players don't like him but I see nothing to support YaleEli's claims. In fact Pat Powers is involved with the Friends of Brown Basketball, Earl is organizing the alumni game this year and I saw Mike Martin after a game this year having a great time with Miller and his staff. I know it looks like Miller is an hardass, and he is certainly demanding and might be difficult to play for at times, but he is also an excellent coach and is committed and loyal to his players. That's all you can ask for from your coach.
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Expectations
02-15-05 01:13 PM - Post#4225
In response to YaleEli
What a silly post you've made here. And talk about kicking a team when they're down. Clearly, this comes out of some bitterness on your part - which is understandable.
Brown's crushed Yale's title hopes each of the last two seasons. How you can post "hey! Brown lost twice! See?!?!" after Brown's owned Yale like they have just amazes me. Since 2002, Yale has been the one with all the expectations, and has crumbled underneath them.
Oh, and "by the way", Yale hasn't beaten Brown yet THIS season. The way you're talking, you ought to expect Yale to finally win one on their home court, and probably even sweep Brown. Right?
I do like Flato's game, however. I think Yale's got some good young talent. But I also think it's pretty clear who the most talented freshman class is.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
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YaleEli
goober
Posts: 62
Loc: Greenwich, CT
Reg: 12-07-04
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Re: Expectations
02-15-05 08:23 PM - Post#4226
In response to Bruno
I find it very interesting that the Brown Bruin posters find my comments "offensive" or mean-spirited. I have certainly heard a lot worse as it relates to James Jones' inability to develop his players or the Bulldogs so called "choke jobs" over the last three seasons.
Several weeks ago, we were mired in last place and I heard a number of posters on this site ready to put us six feet under. It is now the middle of the Ivy season and, besides Penn and Cornell, we are still in the "hunt" relative to the five other teams in the League.
I have always maintained that it takes a coach 2-3 recruiting classes before you can determine how well a coach will perform in this league. Coach Jones is now in his six season at Yale; we are no longer counted as a win for any team in this league. As long as Jones is at Yale, I imagine that we will be right in the hunt in terms of recruiting the best players coming into the league and having a chance to win the league.
While vying for second place might mean something to Brown, it is hardly the goal that the Yale program wishes to aspire to year in and year out. Yeah, maybe having higher expectations each year tends to put added pressure on the Bulldogs; however, as the Princeton Tigers of 2004-2005 can attest, sometimes chemistry can be the X factor in determining how well your season will proceed.
Our guys have battled through some very tough losses over the last year (death of Josh Hill in 2004 and tragic loss of several Yale athletes in 2003). While these types of losses may not matter to professional athletes who are paid to win at all costs, college athletes tend to absorb all of these "hits" personally. While not making any excuses for the struggles of the last few years, Yale has certainly continued to battle and I am proud of how they have kept themselves from completely collapsing this year after starting out 0-2 in Ivy play.
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brownbruin
Freshman
Posts: 50
Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Expectations
02-15-05 09:29 PM - Post#4227
In response to YaleEli
Your posts were deemed offensive because you alleged unfounded and unsubstantiated allegations against Glen Miller, allegations that are ad hominem in nature and that you are unable to back up. Your gratuitous cheap shot in your most recent post that "vying for second place might mean something to Brown, it is hardly the goal that the Yale program wishes to aspire to ..." is just that, a real gratuitous cheap shot and would seem to confirm your inability to carry on a constructive dialogue of the kind that this forum was intended to promote. Like I said in my previous post, the only point that Brown posters have made in reference to Jones is that his teams have recently underachieved, while Miller's have overachieved. That's not the sort of observation that warrants the kind of grade-school level cheap shots that you have posted. I grew up in New Haven as a huge Yale fan. I always thought that you guys were classier than that.
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Ancient Quaker
Masters Student
Posts: 648
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Expectations
02-16-05 12:33 AM - Post#4228
In response to brownbruin
Don't waste your energy on him, BB. He's a flame thrower. For example, on January 13, he posted the following regarding Penn's loss to Rider:
"And somoeone on this board was beating the Yale Bulldogs up for losing to Patriot League teams recently? This just goes to show you that RPI ratings, Sagarin ratings, etc. mean nothing; you've got to have talent to beat folks.
I have followed the Ivy League for over 20 years, and I can honestly say that this is the weakest Penn team that has been around Philly in some time.
Is Dunphy limiting his recruiting areas, or is he simply tired of competing at this level?"
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SFlaQuaker
Postdoc
Posts: 2427
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Expectations
02-16-05 12:39 AM - Post#4229
In response to Ancient Quaker
Hey, you guys aren't even the ones that got called out in the post title.
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Anonymous
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Reality Check *DELETED*
02-16-05 03:18 PM - Post#4230
In response to BrownAlum
Post deleted by aff06
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Reality Check
02-16-05 03:39 PM - Post#4231
In response to
It seems like Miller is in something of the Majerus cycle, where he brings in a new group, figures out who can play, and then jettisons the rest. That may well qualify as "something a little off" in itself, but I don't think Miller's lost many (any?) guys who would've played much.
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YaleEli
goober
Posts: 62
Loc: Greenwich, CT
Reg: 12-07-04
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Re: Reality Check to BrownBruin
02-16-05 03:40 PM - Post#4232
In response to
Well, I now have "substantiated" and "well-founded" evidence that Coach Miller won't win "Most Congenial Coach of the Year". Anyone affiliated with the Brown program (fans and alumni alike) know of Miller's heavy-handed approach to his players. That may play well with alumni who want a well-disciplined team, but it sure won't win the recruiting wars when prospective players have a choice between Brown and the other Ivies. That is just a reality! If you don't agree, than you probably have never been a recruited athlete.
This fact does not make him a "bad" coach; it just means that he stands a greater chance of losing recruited players than other coaches in the Ivy League.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Reality Check to BrownBruin
02-16-05 04:02 PM - Post#4233
In response to YaleEli
You and the other Anonymous Coward (to borrow the Slashdot term) take potshots from behind your burkas, and you pat yourself on the back for it? As if we're going to take you seriously? That's pretty funny.
If you're going to post in public about something like this, you and aff06 should put your names behind your claims, or scurry back to the dark holes you crawled out of.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Reality Check to BrownBruin
02-16-05 04:35 PM - Post#4234
In response to YaleEli
There's not much evidence that Miller is losing recruiting wars with Jones. The kid Brown just got was reportedly involved with Yale; I think Nordrum was too. I'm not aware of Yale beating Brown for anyone. Miller recruits a little more off the beaten track than the rest of the league; however, there's a decent argument that he has the best class among the current freshmen. I'd take Huffman over Yale's guys in a heartbeat, though both Flato and Caleb are coming on.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Reality Check to BrownBruin
02-16-05 04:35 PM - Post#4235
In response to Chip Bayers
Doesn't YaleEli's style remind you of someone?
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