Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3996
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-17-24 03:48 PM - Post#365569
Great game, no excuses. Up 4 with less than a minute left. We will miss Kemo and Ndur, I thought the latter played the best game of his career v. Yale. Still, I like Lewis and Dabo filling in the front court next year. Hard not to optimistic about next year.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Oh well
03-17-24 03:51 PM - Post#365570
In response to Old Bear
Great game, no excuses. Up 4 with less than a minute left.
Up 6 with 27 seconds left. Feel for Brown and its fans.
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Oh well
03-17-24 04:12 PM - Post#365574
In response to penn nation
Yeah, it sucked. But I do think the better team won and I also think Yale deserved to win. They made almost every play down the stretch and capitalized on every Brown mistake. Which is what experienced winning teams do. But this Brown team playing this way. I wasn’t sure if anyone was going to stop the magic. Brown had a really bad final minute. But a truly incredible final month.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
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Columbia 37P6
Postdoc
Posts: 2180
Reg: 02-14-06
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03-17-24 05:14 PM - Post#365582
In response to Bruno
It's hard to say that "the better team won," in any one point game. I thought that both Brown and Yale were both outstanding. Great game!
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Dial Lodge
Sophomore
Posts: 170
Reg: 03-08-07
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Oh well
03-17-24 10:16 PM - Post#365642
In response to Columbia 37P6
A commendable end of season for you Brunos.
Well-done, and almost unstoppable in the last 8 or so games if the season.
Edited by Dial Lodge on 03-17-24 10:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2816
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-18-24 10:11 AM - Post#365677
In response to Dial Lodge
I was pulling for Brown nearly as hard as for the Tigers the night before. Great effort. Tough loss. COY should be voted after the ILT. Brown will be very good next year.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Oh well
03-18-24 12:53 PM - Post#365693
In response to Old Bear
Great finish to the season. Two years in a row Martin has made some lineup adjustments and the team has gotten better as the year wore on. Next year should be easier with the nucleus returning.
Tough way to end for Kimo and Ndur. When Kimo fouled out, it looked like he would be playing another game. Sad to have it end that way. And too bad for Ndur to miss the free throws at the end. He played a great game — Brown wouldn’t have been in position to win the game if not for the way he played.
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Oh well
03-19-24 07:15 AM - Post#365823
In response to SomeGuy
Ndur filled the gap created by a rare poor Nana performance. He was bottled up all game and Ndur made the plays in what may have been his best game as a Bear.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
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Ever True
Junior
Posts: 255
Age: 28
Reg: 02-02-15
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03-22-24 01:18 PM - Post#366071
In response to Bruno
If the loss wasn't hard enough, today Nana enters the portal.
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-22-24 03:07 PM - Post#366088
In response to Ever True
i just hate this.
chance to be on contender (favorite) and play ILT on home floor where no one has lost (?) who has qualified doesnt matter.
and i thought he was less valuable given tweener post size than say a lilly etc
sad days for the league.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-22-24 03:31 PM - Post#366091
In response to james
Agreed, for the reasons you mentioned below. The Ivy League is going to have to figure out what it is going to do as a league about this. A key contributor to what seemed like a very serious contender for the league title next year, for a team that has a rare chance to go to the NCAA tourney and with only one year left to play at Brown, to boot.
i just hate this.
chance to be on contender (favorite) and play ILT on home floor where no one has lost (?) who has qualified doesnt matter.
and i thought he was less valuable given tweener post size than say a lilly etc
sad days for the league.
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Ever True
Junior
Posts: 255
Age: 28
Reg: 02-02-15
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Oh well
03-22-24 04:01 PM - Post#366094
In response to penn nation
I'm honestly shocked.
Guy was a junior captain, 2nd Team All-Ivy, a leader who played with a ton of heart, and clearly loved by fans. What's more, TJ Sorrentine tweeted a picture of him back in the gym working out the day after the loss to Yale.
Feel like something pretty drastic has to have happened for him to decide that he wants to be somewhere else. Maybe it was just a question of $$$.
Honest question: what can the league do? Short of offering scholarships, which will happen when hell freezes over or the courts order it, whichever happens first, what tools does the league have at its disposal?
Edited by Ever True on 03-22-24 04:02 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Oh well
03-22-24 04:17 PM - Post#366096
In response to Ever True
I think the IL should seriously reconsider its policy about graduate students participating on athletic teams.
It won't completely stem the tide, but it might make a difference in some cases.
I'm honestly shocked.
Guy was a junior captain, 2nd Team All-Ivy, a leader who played with a ton of heart, and clearly loved by fans. What's more, TJ Sorrentine tweeted a picture of him back in the gym working out the day after the loss to Yale.
Feel like something pretty drastic has to have happened for him to decide that he wants to be somewhere else. Maybe it was just a question of $$$.
Honest question: what can the league do? Short of offering scholarships, which will happen when hell freezes over or the courts order it, whichever happens first, what tools does the league have at its disposal?
Edited by penn nation on 03-22-24 04:18 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts: 336
Age: 76
Reg: 03-28-15
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03-22-24 05:38 PM - Post#366118
In response to penn nation
Maybe he determined that a Brown degree is not that valuable.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2139
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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03-22-24 08:10 PM - Post#366169
In response to Ever True
If the loss wasn't hard enough, today Nana enters the portal.
That sucks. I thought that Nana, Lilly and Anya returning next year would have given you guys a really good chance to contend.
Anyway, watching Brown take down Princeton in the ILT took a small portion of the sting out of a rough season for this Penn alum.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3669
Reg: 02-06-10
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Oh well
03-22-24 09:39 PM - Post#366179
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Damn. Owusu-Anane is a huge loss. He's a confirmed Tiger slayer and would have hurt us again next year. As bad as we were in the ILT, there's no doubt that Nana's monster game made the difference. He even added 3pt shooting to his arsenal.
If Lilly and Anya stay, Brown can still be a Top 4 team and then, of course, anything can happen in the ILT.
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-23-24 01:09 AM - Post#366189
In response to gokinsmen
unfortunately i predicted the wave on this board long ago and am still surprised.
guess i am the lemming given i underestimated it.
you dont want to malign a kid but he played terrible against yale and is the only reason brown isnt dancing.
he plays ok and they are and maybe they shouldve even though he was terrible offensively in the championship. just calling a spade a spade
i dont think hes 6'8 and i dont know where he showcases himself at power 5 level any better than at brown which was a favorite in my book with him not a contender.
i have as much insight as anyone on this board on nil values and his isnt that great.
but whatever my old posts rest and god forbid wolf etc plays better sundst
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-23-24 01:14 AM - Post#366190
In response to james
i guess the old adage ... it only takes one suitor to pay a big price!
i like him as a player but viewed him in the ivy context/brown system not at a power 5 where hes kind of a tweener.
but tampering is rampant and who is to say he didnt ball out vs princeton and then get his "strong a--ss offer" and lay an egg vs yale
who knows?
but his twitter feed makes you nauseous. but whatever they are but 22. good luck to whoever leaves the league. is what it is
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-23-24 04:09 PM - Post#366252
In response to james
I’m not smart enough to find his Twitter feed (maybe just as well). Where is it (or what does it say?)?
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-25-24 11:28 AM - Post#366397
In response to SomeGuy
i was just referencing that he gave a "i still believe in this team...we will turn it around"
type tweet in january. and was proved correct
then followed it up after yale II or princeton III i cant remember when he was proved correct
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Oh well
03-27-24 01:11 AM - Post#366580
In response to james
So Nana plays great vs. Princeton, putting them a win away. Then Nana gets a secret offer and decides - you know what. lemme phone this one in. That’s your story?
The other opportunities some of these players have is I think too much for some to overcome. And some of the league’s policies force some of these players to make some very tough decisions.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-27-24 07:56 PM - Post#366623
In response to Bruno
thats not the full story.
but know with one kid the tampering started a while back.
but i think when the team starts winning and your play gets more recognized the murmur gets louder from the agents and the like.
there are like AAU some shady cats working the system and you better believe he got positive feedback from how he played.
that can get to your head the same way it does to a team when they win a tournament game unexpectedly.
thats all i am saying. he looked awful in the title game but i dont think he did it on purpose
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-27-24 08:18 PM - Post#366624
In response to james
context-i was a volunteer assistant for the top team in ga this year and one of best in country.
i have two sons different ages both have nil offers. one is committed and about to sign w a collective.
one is a sophomore. this is why i freaked out months ago.
but i dont know nana and am merely speculating based on what i am learning abt the system firsthand as well as my observation of human performance psychology
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-27-24 08:29 PM - Post#366625
In response to james
lastly the tension is enormous. it is for me.
i wanted my oldest son to play in the ivy league paying full freight bc he has the aptitude.
he likely wont be an nba prospect but he's skilled and tall.
instead he is doing the opposite of what i did and getting paid for it.
i made my own decision on college and he made his.
my dad offered me the value of my scholarships if i took one.
instead i went to yale.
my son took the money. but from a collective
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-28-24 04:22 PM - Post#366648
In response to james
Not all of these Ivy kids in the portal are set on leaving. I think the way the system works they are incentivized to enter the portal and test the waters to see if they get good money. I would bet some of those who entered will not end up leaving their schools. I have no clue what Nana's intentions are or the interest in him.
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-28-24 04:36 PM - Post#366652
In response to PennFan10
apparently the interest is broad according to the self proclaimed recruiting experts?
i mean he's a grown man so while shorter he's better than my senior right now.
bruce pearl did another presser which is worth a watch.
he reiterated some excuses on the yale loss but that is what it is.
he didnt describe the money changing hands or quantify it but he did say he was in the office on saturday and sunday examining the portal and his own kids.
he said nil agents are calling everyone on his team.
" but we would never do that. haha
as i write above tampering is omnipresent and has been for weeks or months
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-28-24 05:13 PM - Post#366658
In response to james
I don’t see any of the teams on Nanas list as big money NIL teams.
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james
Masters Student
Posts: 796
Age: 49
Reg: 03-18-19
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03-28-24 06:23 PM - Post#366661
In response to PennFan10
ej jarvis was on a 6 figure nil deal at florida until he dropped out and returned to yale to do a fellowship
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Ever True
Junior
Posts: 255
Age: 28
Reg: 02-02-15
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03-29-24 02:00 PM - Post#366678
In response to james
https://247sports.com/college/basketball/re cruitin...
Travis Branham of 24/7 Sports has Nana as no. 10 on the list of top 10 big men in the portal and suggests he will be a high-value addition to a high-major program. Would imagine that means he is in for a significant pay day as well.
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Ever True
Junior
Posts: 255
Age: 28
Reg: 02-02-15
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04-16-24 08:50 PM - Post#367493
In response to james
Kalu Anya joins Nana in the portal.
Wouldn't blame Kino if he took a look at the portal. Without Anya and Nana, this team doesn't have the guys to compete at the top of the league.
From being 10 seconds away from a tourney berth to looking at rebuilding the roster. Just brutal.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3669
Reg: 02-06-10
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04-16-24 10:51 PM - Post#367497
In response to Ever True
Whoa, that's unexpected. With Owusu-Anane gone, I figured Anya would get his stats way up and then consider transferring for his senior year.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-17-24 11:51 AM - Post#367523
In response to Ever True
Yikes. I guess we’ll get to see if Dabo is ready next year.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
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Oh well
04-17-24 12:33 PM - Post#367529
In response to SomeGuy
The league ranking of the Ivies is going to take a hit with many teams suffering noticeable losses in players and/or coaches.
So much for the "2 bid Ivy" talk by a few on this board (not on the Brown board, though). Those hopes are now gone forever.
Edited by penn nation on 04-17-24 12:33 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3669
Reg: 02-06-10
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Re: Oh well
04-17-24 01:44 PM - Post#367536
In response to penn nation
So much for the "2 bid Ivy" talk by a few on this board (not on the Brown board, though). Those hopes are now gone forever.
I don't know about that. The only real hope for a 2-bid Ivy was for a team to have 0-1 losses going into the ILT final and then losing a close one. And a weaker Ivy makes that even more possible.
It's totally unfair but no one outside the Ivy thinks a 12-2 record against a strong Ivy field is better than 14-0 against a weak Ivy field. The SOS metrics will take a hit, but again, going undefeated instead of losing 2-3 games would make up a lot of that.
This past Princeton team only lost 1 game in non-conf. It's conceivable the 2024-25 Tigers might do the same (or better) against a similar schedule, provided Lee withdraws from the draft as he intends to do.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Oh well
04-17-24 03:15 PM - Post#367542
In response to gokinsmen
Denial hits hard.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1149
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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Re: Oh well
04-18-24 09:40 AM - Post#367561
In response to gokinsmen
The only real hope for a 2-bid Ivy was for a team to have 0-1 losses going into the ILT final and then losing a close one.
Like what happened to the women this season?
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3669
Reg: 02-06-10
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04-18-24 01:13 PM - Post#367575
In response to Go Green
I meant 0-1 losses overall, including non-conf. That's the only way I see the Ivy men getting 2 bids.
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mountainred
Masters Student
Posts: 514
Age: 57
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
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Re: Oh well
04-18-24 06:36 PM - Post#367586
In response to penn nation
The scenario that gets a second bid is team-based, not league-based. You need a super team that is a lead pipe lock at the end of the regular season. Going back 1985 (when the field expanded to 64) I can see just 2 teams that could have hoped for an at-large bid if they had gagged in the ILT and both times were in the 90's when the league was still essentially Penn and Princeton and hockey schools.
Princeton '98 -- 26-1, a 5 seed and ranked in the top 10. They would have survived an ILT loss. The league was #25 in KenPom that year.
Princeton '91 -- 24-2, an 8 seed and ranked in the top 20; the Tigers were probably still in, but may have been placed in a play-in game (which I know didn't yet exist, but neither did the ILT). KenPom doesn't go back that far, but Yale was the only other league team with a winning record that year.
Penn has earned 11 seeds and several other teams have earned 12's since 2010, but that's the cut line for at-large berths and I doubt any of those teams could have survived one more loss, especially one in March.
Honestly, next year may bring the 2-bid scenario into play. Princeton returns basically everyone and the rest of the league is rebuilding to some degree, so they could run the Ivy table to build a gaudy record. Of course, they will need to survive the non-conference season with 2 losses max, hope their wins are better than this year's (beating Duquesne is likely not enough), and then lose in the ILT to test it out. It's as likely as hitting an inside draw on a straight flush, but 2-bid ivy has always been mostly fantasy.
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Bruno
PhD Student
Posts: 1419
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Oh well
04-18-24 10:29 PM - Post#367595
In response to mountainred
I think the Penn 93-94 and 94-95 teams would have been on the bubble.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3669
Reg: 02-06-10
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Oh well
04-26-24 04:34 PM - Post#367801
In response to Bruno
Great news for Brown: Owusu-Anane is back!
https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1 783880395...
@JonRothstein
Nana Owusu-Anane tells me that he's withdrawing from the transfer portal and will return to Brown next season.
Makes things tougher for Princeton, but hey, I'm glad to see Ivy teams retain their top talent. I wonder if Anya comes back too.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Oh well
04-26-24 04:57 PM - Post#367807
In response to gokinsmen
Wait--you mean you don't get beamed up for good in that portal thingy?
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Oh well
04-26-24 05:05 PM - Post#367809
In response to Bruno
I think the Penn 93-94 and 94-95 teams would have been on the bubble.
93-94 team only 2 regular season losses, both on the road, one at McGonigle Hall to a powerful Temple team ranked 12th in the final AP poll. This in a year where Penn itself was ranked 24th in the last regular season AP poll of the season.
Major problem would be Penn simply not playing any good teams that year, although they certainly won their share of away games against major conference squads.
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mountainred
Masters Student
Posts: 514
Age: 57
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
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Re: Oh well
04-27-24 12:31 PM - Post#367835
In response to penn nation
I think the Penn 93-94 and 94-95 teams would have been on the bubble.
93-94 team only 2 regular season losses, both on the road, one at McGonigle Hall to a powerful Temple team ranked 12th in the final AP poll. This in a year where Penn itself was ranked 24th in the last regular season AP poll of the season.
Major problem would be Penn simply not playing any good teams that year, although they certainly won their share of away games against major conference squads.
Those teams were seeded 11 and 12 respectively, so they were already "on the bubble" in the eyes of the NCAA. You want to tell me they were underseeded; I think you have a good argument. But we have an good idea what the NCAA thought and I doubt they would have survived one last loss.
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