mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-16-21 08:28 PM - Post#322182
In response to Jeff2sf
I only care if people put others at more risk. I could care less about people taking too many precautions - whatever that means. If people want to wear masks when the number of cases is zero, that’s fine by me. Our biggest problem over the past year has not been people taking this virus too seriously.
|
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
|
03-16-21 10:03 PM - Post#322186
In response to mrjames
If pn didn’t tell me he was doing it, I wouldn’t have cared. I believe hygiene theatre (look at me, I’m wearing a mask outside amongst vaccinated folks because I’m taking this very seriously), contributes to confusion and vax hesitancy.
|
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
|
This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
03-17-21 02:18 AM - Post#322187
In response to Jeff2sf
OMG. Please not again. I gave you the last word. It could all be over. You and mrjames could have argued about statistics. Just not this. Please. I don't know a single one of you, but I can be very confident that wearing masks in the privacy of his own home hasn't caused PN's almost vaccinated family any vax hesitancy. What they do at home isn't even public theater. It's private. It's just apparently a platform for a windbag to keep blowing about nothing. Can we trade jeff2SF for BRF? No salary, no other players, no other draft picks. Just player for player. No brainer.
|
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
|
Re: This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
03-17-21 02:21 AM - Post#322188
In response to Penndemonium
OMG. Please not again. I gave you the last word. It could all be over. You and mrjames could have argued about statistics. Just not this. Please. I don't know a single one of you, but I can be very confident that wearing masks in the privacy of his own home hasn't caused PN's almost vaccinated family any vax hesitancy. What they do at home isn't even public theater. It's private. It's just apparently a platform for a windbag to keep blowing about nothing. Can we trade jeff2SF for BRF? No salary, no other players, no other draft picks. Just player for player. No brainer. TigerFan, where are you?
|
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
|
03-17-21 07:52 AM - Post#322190
In response to Penndemonium
I love Mike. He's the smartest person on this board. He makes me think about things from a different perspective.
You do know you don't have to click right?
|
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
|
03-17-21 01:54 PM - Post#322233
In response to Jeff2sf
+1 on mrjames. -1 on PN.
|
mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-20-21 09:23 PM - Post#322336
In response to Penndemonium
NCAA Tournament won’t survive unscathed, as VCU bows out with positives.
|
penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21204
Reg: 12-02-04
|
03-20-21 10:03 PM - Post#322337
In response to mrjames
Haven't they already ousted some referees as well?
|
mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-20-21 10:09 PM - Post#322338
In response to penn nation
Correct. And it’s noteworthy (but will never be proven that this is definitely where VCU got it) that Roger Ayers was the confirmed positive that sent those refs home, and he did the A10 final. He had previously done the Duke game in the ACC Tourney before Duke got sent home with a positive.
Again, no way to prove it, but it’s one possibility of what happened.
|
rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3054
Reg: 10-20-14
|
03-20-21 11:34 PM - Post#322339
In response to mrjames
https://www.si.com/college/2021/03/21/vc u-covid-ou...
- There has been some rumination about a possible path that leads back to the Atlantic 10 tournament in Dayton—and maybe even a tangent to the Atlantic Coast Conference tournament in Greensboro. But nothing is remotely certain.
Concerns were raised by some sources about the Dayton Marriott as a source of VCU’s issues. That’s where the A-10 teams and officials were staying. One of the officials who worked the A-10 title game against St. Bonaventure was Roger Ayers, who since has tested positive and missed the men's NCAA tournament.
Prior to coming to town to work that game, Ayers also worked two games in the ACC tourney—on Wednesday March 16 he did Louisville–Duke, and the Blue Devils tested out of the tourney the following day. On Thursday, March 17 he did Miami–Georgia Tech, and Yellow Jackets big man Moses Wright subsequently tested positive and missed the NCAA tourney. (Virginia also had to drop out of the ACC tourney due to COVID-19 issues, and the Cavaliers barely made it to Indy for this tourney. They arrived Friday afternoon, practiced once Saturday morning and played Saturday night—whereupon they were bounced by Ohio.)
Dugas said “there’s no way to responsibly connect†all the basketball positive tests. “There’s too many other opportunities for infection,†he added. "So many other variables.†Nobody is saying Ayers—or a Duke player or whoever—is Patient Zero of this college basketball situation.
However, some of the sport's officials privately are wondering about the NCAA’s handling of the refs who are and aren’t working this tournament. Five of them who had dinner with Ayers were removed from the tournament by contact tracing, but the two who worked that A-10 final with him have been allowed to officiate here: Bert Smith and Brent Hampton. Smith officiated the Loyola Chicago–Georgia Tech game Friday and USC–Drake Saturday; Hampton worked the North Texas–Purdue game Friday. -
|
rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3054
Reg: 10-20-14
|
03-20-21 11:37 PM - Post#322340
In response to rbg
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/ne ws/...
- Internally, VCU is wondering whether the site of the Atlantic 10 Tournament title game is responsible for the program finding itself out of the NCAA Tournament. Sources told CBS Sports that VCU, St. Bonaventure and the entire officiating crew for the event all stayed at the Dayton Marriott -- directly across the street from UD Arena, site of the title game in Dayton, Ohio.
"I'm shocked St. Bonaventure doesn't have any positive cases," one source said. -
- "The hotel was packed," a source told CBS Sports. "They had some sort of other tournament there. People not adhering to protocols, walking through the hotel and lobby without masks. There were people there that weren't from the A-10. The NCAA can control who's there, who's in the buildings, in the hotels, in the convention center. You have to have a credentials that have your picture on it that you wear around your neck everywhere you go. Everyone has to wear masks, four people to an elevators, no congregating in the lobbies. The NCAA has complete control of what's going on."
This was not entirely the case at the Dayton Marriott.
"There was some [other] event there," the source added. "There were kids, parents and people with differences of opinion [about COVID-19] and the hotel staff -- I witnessed the ladies at the check-in yelling to people walking through the lobby about putting their masks on."
When reached for a statement about the matter at the A-10 Tournament title game, league spokesperson Drew Dickerson shared the following statement with CBS Sports: "A-10 teams were all in the same hotel. The teams all had dedicated floors separate from each other and separate from the public. The officials did as well. There was no mingling with teams; teams had dedicated meeting rooms that were separate from everyone else and separate from each other." -
|
rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3054
Reg: 10-20-14
|
This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
03-21-21 12:02 AM - Post#322341
In response to rbg
While it will be very difficult-to-impossible to figure out where the positive case originated, A10 Commissioner Bernadette McGlade will need to answer questions about the way the tournament was organized and the accommodations in Dayton.
The entire A10 tournament was supposed to be at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, but was relocated to Richmond and played at VCU and UR.
The women's tournament was originally scheduled to be played at VCU. I believe the league decided to put the men's tournament first and the women's the following week. While all of the women's games were held at VCU, the men's held everything in Richmond and postponed the final game to the following week in Dayton.
If the league had played the men's final on March 7, one day after the semifinals, everyone involved would have been at the same facility they were staying for the week. Instead, the two teams traveled across the country, stayed in a new hotel and brought in at least one ref who had been working in another league in another part of the country - all things that could increase the risk for something to go wrong.
The NCAA will need to answer why they didn't have rooms ready for the 6 refs who arrived when they were told to do so on Sunday, why they didn't have people to keep the refs from going out to dinner after they arrived at the hotel and why they allowed the other 2 refs who worked the ACC game with Ayers to stay.
Edited by rbg on 03-21-21 12:05 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
|
Re: This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
03-22-21 08:15 AM - Post#322365
In response to rbg
In fairness, the NCAAM and NCAAW women tournaments have been a success up to this point and time. On balance, the NCAA has received relatively good marks from the media other than how they handle the women's tournament but that is true every year.
Needless to say, the IL could have participated if it wanted to participate. Reality is reality.
|
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
|
Re: This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
03-22-21 09:01 AM - Post#322368
In response to bradley
In addition to the “what if†of just playing at all, it looks like it would have been a good year to potentially get a win or two.
|
bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
|
Re: This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
03-22-21 09:22 AM - Post#322375
In response to SomeGuy
Upsets always add a great dimension to the Tournament and a Atkinson/Swain lead team may have caused some damage.
There is a reason why they call it the Big Dance and it is simply exciting.
|
bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
|
Re: This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
03-22-21 09:40 AM - Post#322378
In response to SomeGuy
Upsets always add a great dimension to the Tournament and a Atkinson/Swain lead team may have caused some damage.
There is a reason why they call it the Big Dance and it is simply exciting.
|
mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
03-22-21 10:13 AM - Post#322383
In response to bradley
Yale and Brown were certainly hurt most by the pandemic. Harvard would have been hard-pressed to take advantage of home court in 20-21, and Yale would have likely been in the slot of an Ohio, UCSB or North Texas with a competitive 5-12 or 4-13 game.
At the same time, while there's no doubting the Ivy League could have held a season if it wanted to, it simply wouldn't have weathered the storm that other leagues chose to and would have shut its season down very soon after teams had to go into pause. Even if you disagree with the league's decision-making process, of which I've been pretty critical of late, I think we can all agree that, realistically, the league wouldn't have accepted a bunch of pauses to get to the finish line.
So, everyone should agree that it was possible. Everyone should also agree that it's not what the Ivy League is and that's okay.
|
bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
|
Re: This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
03-22-21 11:24 AM - Post#322388
In response to mrjames
I obviously disagree with the final decision of the IL Presidents. I do not have a clue about the process and really do not care. I agree with your thoughts that it is what it is and represents the attitude of IL Presidents. As fans, we can certainly object to their view of the world but it really will not change anything.
The decision, unlike every other conference, says a lot as to where sports fit in the pecking order for IL Presidents and really is not a great surprise based on current IL policies relating to sports. There is nothing wrong in deciding not to be on the playing field of some of the great IL teams during the 60s and 70s and to a lesser extent, the 80s and 90s as times have changed.
The notion that IL BB was going to become a two bid NCAAM Tournament league is a bit of a fantasy based on existing attitudes and policies of the IL. I remember that it was an arguing point for some as to the adoption of Ivy Madness. Two bids could happen on an isolated year but nothing is really going to change unless attitudes and policies change.
It is fine to be a second tier mid-major conference at the end of the day and try to pull off an upset or two in the field of 64 or 32. Just simply send your best team to achieve this realistic goal.
For some of us, what happened this year will effect future fandom -- for others, it will have no effect.
|
mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
03-22-21 12:31 PM - Post#322392
In response to bradley
I understand the sentiment behind a lot of this, though I might nit at some of your final points.
First, there are only 10 leagues that consistently get two or more bids. It would be awesome to get second bids in isolated years, and that would be a huge accomplishment. Getting a second bid consistently is even beyond where I see this league's ceiling being.
Similarly, pulling off an upset or two in R64 and R32 (to make the Sweet 16) is pretty much the status of all leagues outside the Top 7 + Gonzaga.
Finally, sending your best team is only helpful in really, really awful conferences. None of the Cinderellas in this year's Big Dance were their tourney's 1-seeds (ORU, Ohio, N. Texas, ACU) though some were the best KenPom team and the conf tourney "righted" a wrong there.
The goal for the league should be to have one team every 2-3 years that is at large worthy where the tourney buys us an extra bid and maybe one year in every 5-10 where there are two clear at large caliber teams. We've had a lot of years of teams with resumes in the 50s and three in four (2011, 2012 and 2014) with a team in the top 50 in resume.
There's still another step that needs to be taken. The 2016 class should have been that step, but those teams were decimated by injuries and other defections. If that's the new norm, that next step won't happen. If we get a relatively clean run at the level of recruiting we're currently doing, though, it could.
|
mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: This proves that Covid can be managed at Universities
03-24-21 02:22 PM - Post#322501
In response to mrjames
So, finally got to do a deep dive on the recruiting classes to bring my dataset up to date.
Some interesting tidbits:
- The 2018 class grades out as the best class league-wide for the Ivy in the recruiting ranking era, narrowly edging the 2016 class. That's a little surprising looking at the early production from that class, but here were the top players from that class (average rating and all-time rank in parens):
1. Jaelin (4.0, #2)
2. Kirkwood (3.8, #4)
3. Freedman (3.6, #7)
4. Ellis (3.2, #15)
5. Cotton (2.7, #33)
6. Kelly (2.6, #37)
7. Wang (2.5, #42)
8. Forbes (2.4, #50)
9. Samuels (2.4, #51)
10. Slajchert (1.8, #98)
Now, Freedman and Wang were injured last year, and we kinda knew Kelly's and Cotton's recruiting ratings were more a vestige of where he stood earlier in the process, so some of this is the 2018 class not being quite as strong as it was rated, but some of it was injuries. All this is to say, though, that there's a talented senior class coming back.
- It's getting a little harder to use recruiting rankings, as more and more of them seem to be focusing less and less outside the top, say, 300 or so. There are still some notable high ranking recruits in the 2019-2021 classes, but there just seems to be far less in the middle. For instance, from 2010 to 2018, we averaged, league-wide, just five recruits a year (and a max of 8 in any one year) that got zero mention at any recruiting site. In 2019, that ballooned to 12 and is sitting at 20 for 2020 and 19 for 2021. Now, there are a lot of reasons why I see that as a recruiting outlet change versus a talent change (anecdotally, our recruiting has gotten deeper as a league recently; static sites like NERR show us as having nabbed a similar number or more high ranking recruits there versus previous years, etc.).
The good news is that it's not really a problem for judging recruits, however. That's because we generally only saw big differences in expected performance from the top echelon of recruits, which are still getting graded as usual. Beyond that level it became more of a numbers game, where just having more D1 recruits makes it more likely that some will hit.
At any rate, here are the top 2019-2021 recruits:
1) Ledlum (3.4, #11)
2) MLL (3.4, #12)
3) Hemmings (3.2, #15)
4) Ajogbor (3.2, #15)
5) Tretout (3.0, #22)
6) Brayboy (2.8, #28)
7) Cowan (2.7, #33)
8) Simon (2.6, #37)
9) Hooks (2.4, #51)
10) Nelson (2.4, #51)
11) Pitcher (2.4, #51)
12) Owusu-Anane (2.4, #51)
13) Basa Ama (2.2, #64)
14) Lesmond (2.0, #71)
15) Wojcik (1.9, #80)
16) Jarvis (1.8, #91)
Just outside the Top 100: Sakota, Mahoney, Knowling, Robledo, O'Neil, Langborg
One thing that struck me was how wide the representation went. Six schools have at least two players in the Top 100 between 2018 and 2021.
Next year, 26 of the Top 100 all time Ivy recruits will be playing and 33 of the Top 150. There's a lot of talent in this league. Will be interesting to see how it all comes together.
|
|
